id like that too. it should have been this.
Whats the deal with the Starviper?
Nothing particularly off-the-wall:
Prince Xizor - Predator, Autothrusters (34)
Guri - Wired, Virago, Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampners, Autothrusters (38)
Black Sun Soldier x2 (26)
Guri's pretty much where I want her, but I may switch Xizor to Veteran Instincts, downgrade the Soldiers to Binayres and give them both Feedback Arrays.
It's either going to be this or a variation on the Marauders/Scyks again.
StarViper: · Prince Xizor (31)
Cool Hand (1)
Autothrusters (2)
· Virago (1)
Fire Control System (2)
StarViper: · Guri (30)
Predator (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (12)
Feedback Array (2)
Z-95 Headhunter: Binayre Pirate (12)
Feedback Array (2)
You could play this a few ways. My default would be to run the Zs in front of Xizor and force ships to run into them setting up Xizor for R1 shots against a tokenless ship. Run Guri as a flanker and cover Xizors's flank.
I say Z swarm doesn't come close to true swarms in terms of damage output, and due to xizor eating up half of your points you're not even having the bodies for effective blocking of all lanes.
3 dice with focus+TL. Cool, for like HOW MUCH POINTS?
37 if you take the cheapest VI+FCS+AT xizor.
A bit more and we get a FCS PTLing regening HORN. That's damage dealing.
Xizor isn't.
All attempts to joust with xizorswarm resulted in getting "swarm" blown to bits. And then xizor becomes fishfood.
I say an arc dodger not only dodges the arc, but still gets his own shot.
So far I can name... 3 arcdodgers that are true to that definition.
Vader, Soontir, and Jake Farrel. See the system?
FCS is an action economy upgrade. Arcdodge isn't exactly about that.
I see you saying you played local guys and won. That you found the Z swarms didn't work for them. I've found the opposite. You only mention that there aren't enough Z's to really be a swarm. Potato, potato. Call it Xizor and mini-swarm. I can't really say why their mini swarms failed when I've done very well with mine, especially with blocking. What you are saying doesn't exactly explain why it's not effective.
To say that there are only 3 arc dodgers in the entire game of X-wing is wrong in my perspective. A simple Tie Fighter can dodge arcs with a Barrel Roll. They were the original Arc Dodgers before Soontir Fel and Jake Farrel were even in the game. To dodge a firing arc, you simply need some sort of repositioning to then dodge the arc.
Now, if you want to say those three pilots are THE BEST ARC DODGERS, then that's a statement I'll agree with. Yes, they are very good. They aren't the ONLY arc dodgers, though. Xizor isn't on the same par as those three, but that doesn't mean he's bad at it.
Not damaging enough to burst through aces, not enough bodies to block it all (Maybe if we take Farseer level precognition and can block exact ace final position with one of 5 Zs that even lack Barrelrolls and Boosts that is usually there on blockers like A-wings and Tie-lns
it can be done reliably... )
But same level precognition will work better in other lists, why spoil it on such as this?
You can give a goose chace and keep out of arc. But arcdodger is arcdodger because it reliably KEEPS the enemy in his own arc while leaving enemy arc.
Simple barrelroll can't reliably provide it, just as simple boost can't.
Both do.
There are three TRUE arcdodgers. Others are limited in their capabilities.
Maybe there will be four when tie adv prototype hits the shelves.
If we take BatHorn (PTL, R1, Adv sensor, EU) he can be a true arcdodger as well, even more so. Exactly 2 things make him a true arcdodger.
One of them being a mimicking of Soontir's trademark 2-hard-green and the other being adv sensor. (and PS8)
So....your problem with the Z swarm (or mini swarm) is that it won't break through aces. Is that it? If that's your only complaint on it, I'm fine with that.
Personally, I use Flechette Torps on Xizor to put the zap on Soontir or other arc dodger and then get the bump. It's a lot easier to predict where Soontir will be when he's double stressed and not getting any actions (free or otherwise). Those Z's have a lot better time getting through, then, especially after Xizor gets his hits in.
Ok...so now you have a category called "true" arc dodger. I guess you mean the best of the best. These are the guys that can boost and barrel roll to get out of arc and still get a shot. So...these are the only arc dodgers to you? Everything else isn't a "real" arc dodger? *sigh* OK...what a limited way to look at the game. To me, an Obsidian Squadron Pilot is an arc dodger to a Rookie X-wing.
I see Warpman's point though. There are gradients between the three pillars of X-wing. Some arc-dodgers are better than others.
And without PTL, the Starviper just isn't as good as PTL aces.
Like others have said, it's more of a hybrid jouster. Similar to the TIE Advanced I suppose, but with autothrusters and innate boost.
I see Warpman's point though. There are gradients between the three pillars of X-wing. Some arc-dodgers are better than others.
And without PTL, the Starviper just isn't as good as PTL aces.
Like others have said, it's more of a hybrid jouster. Similar to the TIE Advanced I suppose, but with autothrusters and innate boost.
True, but the Starviper isn't just an arc dodging ace. It's also an excellent jouster, especially early game Xizor. It's not as good as the really big 3, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Also, it's excellent as an early game jouster. It's not to be compared to the super arc dodging aces as it's a different beast.
I say Z swarm doesn't come close to true swarms in terms of damage output, and due to xizor eating up half of your points you're not even having the bodies for effective blocking of all lanes.
3 dice with focus+TL. Cool, for like HOW MUCH POINTS?
37 if you take the cheapest VI+FCS+AT xizor.
A bit more and we get a FCS PTLing regening HORN. That's damage dealing.
Xizor isn't.
All attempts to joust with xizorswarm resulted in getting "swarm" blown to bits. And then xizor becomes fishfood.
I say an arc dodger not only dodges the arc, but still gets his own shot.
So far I can name... 3 arcdodgers that are true to that definition.
Vader, Soontir, and Jake Farrel. See the system?
FCS is an action economy upgrade. Arcdodge isn't exactly about that.
I see you saying you played local guys and won. That you found the Z swarms didn't work for them. I've found the opposite. You only mention that there aren't enough Z's to really be a swarm. Potato, potato. Call it Xizor and mini-swarm. I can't really say why their mini swarms failed when I've done very well with mine, especially with blocking. What you are saying doesn't exactly explain why it's not effective.
To say that there are only 3 arc dodgers in the entire game of X-wing is wrong in my perspective. A simple Tie Fighter can dodge arcs with a Barrel Roll. They were the original Arc Dodgers before Soontir Fel and Jake Farrel were even in the game. To dodge a firing arc, you simply need some sort of repositioning to then dodge the arc.
Now, if you want to say those three pilots are THE BEST ARC DODGERS, then that's a statement I'll agree with. Yes, they are very good. They aren't the ONLY arc dodgers, though. Xizor isn't on the same par as those three, but that doesn't mean he's bad at it.
Not damaging enough to burst through aces, not enough bodies to block it all (Maybe if we take Farseer level precognition and can block exact ace final position with one of 5 Zs that even lack Barrelrolls and Boosts that is usually there on blockers like A-wings and Tie-lns
it can be done reliably... )
But same level precognition will work better in other lists, why spoil it on such as this?
You can give a goose chace and keep out of arc. But arcdodger is arcdodger because it reliably KEEPS the enemy in his own arc while leaving enemy arc.
Simple barrelroll can't reliably provide it, just as simple boost can't.
Both do.
There are three TRUE arcdodgers. Others are limited in their capabilities.
Maybe there will be four when tie adv prototype hits the shelves.
If we take BatHorn (PTL, R1, Adv sensor, EU) he can be a true arcdodger as well, even more so. Exactly 2 things make him a true arcdodger.
One of them being a mimicking of Soontir's trademark 2-hard-green and the other being adv sensor. (and PS8)
So....your problem with the Z swarm (or mini swarm) is that it won't break through aces. Is that it? If that's your only complaint on it, I'm fine with that.
Personally, I use Flechette Torps on Xizor to put the zap on Soontir or other arc dodger and then get the bump. It's a lot easier to predict where Soontir will be when he's double stressed and not getting any actions (free or otherwise). Those Z's have a lot better time getting through, then, especially after Xizor gets his hits in.
Ok...so now you have a category called "true" arc dodger. I guess you mean the best of the best. These are the guys that can boost and barrel roll to get out of arc and still get a shot. So...these are the only arc dodgers to you? Everything else isn't a "real" arc dodger? *sigh* OK...what a limited way to look at the game. To me, an Obsidian Squadron Pilot is an arc dodger to a Rookie X-wing.
When it's a PWT meta the swarm gets outmaneuvered and squashed
When it's Acewing the swarm can't punch through and gets chewed
When it's TLTwing meta this swarm loses the fire exchange.
Even against real swarm (Like all three types, Omega-Academy swarm, Howlie swarm, Black cracks) it's not as good as one would imply.
And if a list is too narrow and definitely isn't playing well against meta, what good is it? When i want some funplay I can take Guri, Razzi, Kath or any other "not powerhouse, but FUN" ships.
Putting a bump on arcdodgers requires getting one in arc first. If you put Flechett torp onto him it'll be 100 point list if I remember all the prices correctly (can't look up the builders from here, I'm afraid)
A 3 point initiative bid and VI makes Soontir more nervous than a flecehette to the face. Guessing where Xi will be if he moves after soontir is hard, because you never know where the starviper will be. Xi probably won't see soontir himself though...
Any squint can take PTL and be a true arc dodger, but aside from two reposition skills and two actions per turn, and green dial he would also need high PS. Guess who has it all?
When two arcdodgers begin their weaving it's almost every time the one who moves last that wins. Because even Farseer level precognition works worse than simply SEEING it with your own eyes.
While not fan of arcdodgers I like ships that always get the shot.
That's why I LOVE bat-wedge, Bat-horn and full-scale Guri (PTL, Advs, AT, inertial dampeners)
They might not evade the enemy arcs, but they get their shots every time.
Guri solo'd BBBB twice in a row, that's something I feel a full-kitted Starviper should do.
But it bumps into: cost; low PS; lousy greens.
The last part will never be changed, I'm afraid.
But we MIGHT see PS8 one day. Not PS9, yeah. we reached the quota.
Simply dodging arc is never quite enough to win the game.
We're not PWTs all the time. For them it's simple as that: GET OUT OF ARC, because you get your shot anyway.
Starviper isn't a PWT.
True, but the Starviper isn't just an arc dodging ace. It's also an excellent jouster, especially early game Xizor. It's not as good as the really big 3, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Also, it's excellent as an early game jouster. It's not to be compared to the super arc dodging aces as it's a different beast.
Extraordinarily expensive for what it does.
It means "simply not good enough"
And he does get into "super arcdodger ace" "super damage dealer" "Crab bro" pricing gap.
Earlier there have been some posts advising against comparing Xizor to Soontir or whatever ship from another faction because you couldn't take Soontir in your Scum squad. I disagree. In a game you're not measured against other options you could have taken in your list, you'rr measured against your opponent. If your 35 point Xizor is not pulling hus weight against your opponent's 35 point Soontir, then the other 65 points of your list would need to pull their weight against your opponent's remaining 65 points and then in order to compensate.
The main point I see here: IF you can make the other 65 points of list work better than Imp 65 remaining points
screw these 35 handicapped points. (sorry, Xiz)
make the whole list out of those
other 65 points of your list would pull their weight to compensate.
The thing about squadbuilding: don't shoot yourself in the leg and don't take choices that require the rest of the list to struggle.
35 points spent on sub-par choice is a bad idea.
Said this before but the Viper is not an Interceptor nor is it a B wing, it's an X wing with an identity crisis. It doesn't know what to do with itsElf.
Xizor with VI is good but his ability su guests he hangs back with the boys which limits his Arc dodging capabilites.
I don't know what to make of the Viper and am close to hanging up its dial. I feel the Viper was the beta test for the TIE Advanced Prototype as that has a lot of what the StarViper needed to be good.
Totally not salty. 
Hmmm....... Wired on a Starviper. That's...quite a good idea, actually. Probably wouldn't pair it with advanced sensors because it suits a 'viper that's going to be stressed a lot of the time - maybe sensor jammer?. Either way, it's a very nice plan. I may have to try it.
Starvipers are rarely about reacting post dial to your opponent and much more about forcing your opponent to consider the Starviper pre-dial or suffer the consequences.
Exactly what I (and I think Ficklegreendice) meant when talking about arc dodging despite moving first - and planning for "where a starviper might be" is not easy at all.
I look forward to trying a cloaking device on Xizor with advanced sensors. The ended positions you can end up after decloaking rival Echo's. Of course you have a 25% chance of losing it, but it can be a game changer if used at the right time. He also gets 5 agility while cloaked. He'll be nearly impossible to land damage on.
The way I see the cloaking device is as a one-use movement tool, much like inertial dampeners. You're spending your action this turn to get a speed 2 boost or barrel roll of your choice before your next maneuver. Taken in those terms, it cannot go wrong, because even if it breaks down, you still get the choice of discarding your cloak token or decloaking, so you either get that maneuver at the end of one turn or the start of the next.
Taken in those terms, it's not that bad an upgrade - it also costs you a shot, but you'd be using it either when you don't have a shot or when at long range of something that's impossible to hit at long range (a token-ed up Aggressor, for example) and in return for not shooting, you get a nigh untouchable 5-agility-with-autothrusters.
If you get a second use out of it, you have to treat it just a bonus (although, to be fair, you should!)
Simply add evade and/or senor slot at 0pts, again not likely.
I mean... yeah, once in a blue moon you're not shooting anything and Evade's a marginally better choice than Focus. But even in that spot on a 3 green dice ship Focus is worth 3/4 of an Evade. If you happen to get the Range 3 bonus the two are basically a toss-up. Colour me unconvinced that lack of Evade is what's keeping the PS1 StarViper out of the competitive meta.
An expensive ship has to have damage mitigation.
Evade action is a simple example of one, defensive abilities, regen are others.
Evade works every time.
Focus can not work at all, or you can roll 3\3 eyeballs.
word "RELIABLE" is a good word.
that's why green dice are considered...not often better than just a ton of shields.
The evade action is only really missed on Guri. Because she gets a free focus for having an enemy at R1, taking the evade would make her a bit more tanky in these knife fight situations.
The main point I see here: IF you can make the other 65 points of list work better than Imp 65 remaining points
screw these 35 handicapped points. (sorry, Xiz)
make the whole list out of those
An expensive ship has to have damage mitigation.
Evade action is a simple example of one, defensive abilities, regen are others.
Evade works every time.
Focus can not work at all, or you can roll 3\3 eyeballs.
word "RELIABLE" is a good word.
that's why green dice are considered...not often better than just a ton of shields.
For the number of times in a game I'm taking Evade over Focus when I've only got one action (maybe, I don't know, once or twice per ship unless I'm flying Accuracy Corrector?) I don't see 0.25 less evade results per roll on average as that big a deal. Certainly not the difference between a PS1 StarViper being playable and not.
That's not always how listbuilding works, though. Often you want the flexibility that comes with having ships with different strengths and weaknesses together. Ace-and-a-miniswarm is A Thing for a reason, you know?The main point I see here: IF you can make the other 65 points of list work better than Imp 65 remaining points
screw these 35 handicapped points. (sorry, Xiz)
make the whole list out of those
You don't take 35 points that could be spent better. Period.
Ace and miniswarm is made from good ace and good swarm.
You don't put Tur and Tie-fos
You take Vader\Fel and ton of academies
no points spend on sub-par choices = good list building.
The Starviper's got access to Autothrusters (unlike, say, Darth), and Xizor's got one of the best damage-mitigation abilities in the game.An expensive ship has to have damage mitigation.
Evade action is a simple example of one, defensive abilities, regen are others.
Evade works every time.
Focus can not work at all, or you can roll 3\3 eyeballs.
word "RELIABLE" is a good word.
that's why green dice are considered...not often better than just a ton of shields.
For the number of times in a game I'm taking Evade over Focus when I've only got one action (maybe, I don't know, once or twice per ship unless I'm flying Accuracy Corrector?) I don't see 0.25 less evade results per roll on average as that big a deal. Certainly not the difference between a PS1 StarViper being playable and not.
The starviper isn't shot at at all in Xi-swarm
and his ability isn't damage mitigation one, because you DO get damage. just onto different target.
Damage mitigation means your squad takes less damage.
0.25 is just mathwing.
roll 0 dice and you go DERP. Evade works every time.
Ps1 starviper is an overcosted "too expensive to joust" cousin of E-wing and distant relative of X-70
The starviper isn't shot at at all in Xi-swarm
and his ability isn't damage mitigation one, because you DO get damage. just onto different target.
Damage mitigation means your squad takes less damage.
0.25 is just mathwing.
roll 0 dice and you go DERP. Evade works every time.
Ps1 starviper is an overcosted "too expensive to joust" cousin of E-wing and distant relative of X-70
In mine: not ****ing many. There's a reason why the general credo for fighting Palpaces is "Shoot Whichever Ace Isn't Soontir First".
And yes, I get that there are circumstances where Evade is preferable over Focus. You might have gathered that from my first post, where I said that there were circumstances you'd prefer Evade to Focus. My point is that 1) those circumstances aren't actually that common and 2) that even when you DO want to take Evade, Focus isn't THAT much worse a choice.
Hmmm....... Wired on a Starviper. That's...quite a good idea, actually. Probably wouldn't pair it with advanced sensors because it suits a 'viper that's going to be stressed a lot of the time - maybe sensor jammer?. Either way, it's a very nice plan. I may have to try it.
It actually pairs quite well with Advanced Sensors, especially alongside Inertial Dampners as well. You're going to be using the Segnor's Loop and the full stop often enough, and AS allows you keep your action and boost or barrel roll before them. Then obviously Wired kicks in.
Guri gets her focus at range 1, but Wired helps her defense and offense at range 2-3 when you need to reposition.
And how many times does an unblocked Soontir get shot at in your experience?The starviper isn't shot at at all in Xi-swarm
and his ability isn't damage mitigation one, because you DO get damage. just onto different target.
Damage mitigation means your squad takes less damage.
0.25 is just mathwing.
roll 0 dice and you go DERP. Evade works every time.
Ps1 starviper is an overcosted "too expensive to joust" cousin of E-wing and distant relative of X-70
In mine: not ****ing many. There's a reason why the general credo for fighting Palpaces is "Shoot Whichever Ace Isn't Soontir First".
And yes, I get that there are circumstances where Evade is preferable over Focus. You might have gathered that from my first post, where I said that there were circumstances you'd prefer Evade to Focus. My point is that 1) those circumstances aren't actually that common and 2) that even when you DO want to take Evade, Focus isn't THAT much worse a choice.
For just enough to see his dice say "HOWDIE" and catch space cancer.
and then he's suddenly just a dude with 3 evades, not 4, and in many cases he's the dude with a crit.
Depends on situation, yeah, but you don't ahve not only the choice to get both, you don't even get that choice.
Evade is better for surviving, focus is an all-rounder that works a bit worse on defense, even statistically, and might not work at all.
Edited by Warpman
Evade works every time.
Focus can not work at all, or you can roll 3\3 eyeballs.
word "RELIABLE" is a good word.
Except when Evades don't work!
Rolling enough natural evades to not need the evade token (And then not having a focus token for the eyes on your attack roll)
Defending against special attacks - Homing Missile / Autoblaster. (Sure focus doesn't work in the latter case, but can be used on your attack)
Having it cancelled with Juke / Crack shot...
Mathematically - Focus works out to be better than evade on 3 dice, when defending against multiple incoming shots.... The Starviper is already action challenged - I'd like to see a system that triggers extra actions - maybe on green maneuvers - something that the E-wing, B-wing and Viper might like...
Just a greener dial and PS8 will suffice.
the best kind of green dice is the green dice you don't have to roll completely
in other words: not get shot at all.
Getting all-1-greens and PS8 can really make it worth the 35-50% of squad point cost.
FCS for those who want damage, Adv sensor who want to stay on target and\or stay out of arcs.
but without the greens it's just an overpriced jouster, with low PS and\or ability that cripples list versatility and it's movement.
You could play this a few ways. My default would be to run the Zs in front of Xizor and force ships to run into them setting up Xizor for R1 shots against a tokenless ship. Run Guri as a flanker and cover Xizors's flank.
Cheers Stone37! In this particular style of list I prefer to have the Virago title (and Advanced Sensors) on Guri, so she can run wild and free as nature intended while Xizor sticks close to his mooks.
I think the StarViper demands more from the player than other ships and that is off putting for some people. Just like the Defender, it is not immediately obvious what you are to do with it and its plethora of options. Before you know it, it has become the lynch pin of the list with no means to make up for it.
My list has been as follows:
Guri: Predator, Title, Sensor Jammer, Autothrusters
Palob: Predator, TLT, Title
2 x Black Sun Headhunters.
98 points - The one adjustable feature is between tactician on Palob or Flechette on Guri.
Experienced players will hunt Palob with a vengeance due to his ability to shut down Poe. Due to this, they will very rarely bother shooting at Guri unless it is the only other viable target or she is in range 1 and seems like a good idea. (which it isn't)
I cannot stress how important it is to have another threat on the board that is NOT your 40 point StarViper to enable Guri to get into position and abuse the dial. The 1 turn with a barrel roll gives great knife fighting options and her ability means you will always have a focus/predator attacks and this means very consistent hits that will burn any tokenless chump into the ground.
Being PS5 does not hurt at all in my opinion, just means you have to plan ahead more often and predict where people are going. I sometimes think that the Viper and Defender rewards good players more than Soontir, who in essence just has to dial in a speed two and then boost/barrel roll afterwards to compensate for any mistake that you made.
Also, being the only person to turn up to a tournament with a Viper often means I get the brunt of jokes, all the way up to the point where they have one ship left and I have Guri and a headhunter remaining, then it turns into "Never knew the Viper had that on it's dial" or "That sensor jammer/Autothruster combo is a joke" and my personal favourite "Can't believe that despite have seven stress tokens, Guri is still managing three to four hits every time, unbelievable."
When it's a PWT meta the swarm gets outmaneuvered and squashed
When it's Acewing the swarm can't punch through and gets chewed
When it's TLTwing meta this swarm loses the fire exchange.
Even against real swarm (Like all three types, Omega-Academy swarm, Howlie swarm, Black cracks) it's not as good as one would imply.
And if a list is too narrow and definitely isn't playing well against meta, what good is it? When i want some funplay I can take Guri, Razzi, Kath or any other "not powerhouse, but FUN" ships.
Putting a bump on arcdodgers requires getting one in arc first. If you put Flechett torp onto him it'll be 100 point list if I remember all the prices correctly (can't look up the builders from here, I'm afraid)
A 3 point initiative bid and VI makes Soontir more nervous than a flecehette to the face. Guessing where Xi will be if he moves after soontir is hard, because you never know where the starviper will be. Xi probably won't see soontir himself though...
Any squint can take PTL and be a true arc dodger, but aside from two reposition skills and two actions per turn, and green dial he would also need high PS. Guess who has it all?
When two arcdodgers begin their weaving it's almost every time the one who moves last that wins. Because even Farseer level precognition works worse than simply SEEING it with your own eyes.
While not fan of arcdodgers I like ships that always get the shot.
That's why I LOVE bat-wedge, Bat-horn and full-scale Guri (PTL, Advs, AT, inertial dampeners)
They might not evade the enemy arcs, but they get their shots every time.
Guri solo'd BBBB twice in a row, that's something I feel a full-kitted Starviper should do.
But it bumps into: cost; low PS; lousy greens.
The last part will never be changed, I'm afraid.
But we MIGHT see PS8 one day. Not PS9, yeah. we reached the quota.
Simply dodging arc is never quite enough to win the game.
We're not PWTs all the time. For them it's simple as that: GET OUT OF ARC, because you get your shot anyway.
Starviper isn't a PWT.
True, but the Starviper isn't just an arc dodging ace. It's also an excellent jouster, especially early game Xizor. It's not as good as the really big 3, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Also, it's excellent as an early game jouster. It's not to be compared to the super arc dodging aces as it's a different beast.
Extraordinarily expensive for what it does.
It means "simply not good enough"
And he does get into "super arcdodger ace" "super damage dealer" "Crab bro" pricing gap.
I've found that my Xizor list eats fat turret lists quite nicely. You have to know how fat turrets fly and how to block them, but it's really easy once you figure it out. The thing about the Z-95 swarm that is different than the Tie swarm is that you don't have to fly in formation. You fly one or two out and block their escape boost route and then lay into them. I played my Xizor list back in the fat turret days and they were almost always a win for me.
With Aces, you do have to get the ace in arc to fire at, but it can be done. Once you double stress the ace, they can be picked off. Not as easy as the fat turrets or bro bots, but not impossible.
I have not played the list since TLT's have been out. Still, the OP of this thread said he retired his list thinking it was dead to TLT's, but has found it has done exceptionally well. So, the whole point of this thread is that it doesn't suck vs. TLT's. Still, you like to come in and make a sweeping proclamation that it does suck, but not really give much more beyond that.
I have not played Xizor against a Tie Swarm as they were out of favor then.
You talk about how Xizor isn't the best arc dodger in the game and not the best damage dealer in the game. The thing is that he's really good at both. Sure, not the best, but really good at both enough that if you fly him smartly, he's worth his points. Ships are only overcosted if they aren't worth their points. Many people have found Xizor to actually be worth those points. Just because another ship that is different in another faction is cheaper doesn't mean it's a better ship. Soontir doesn't do what Xizor does. Xizor isn't supposed to be the super arc dodger. He's a hybrid jouster and arc dodger. Not the best at either, but excellent if you can learn to fly him.
It sounds like to me that you have only flown against one guy who used Xizor and you always beat him. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for your opinion. I've flown him well enough and almost made Top 16 at a Regionals.
The deal with the StarViper is that you get Autothrusters.