The main problem is its heavy expense for what it is- if the SV had a really good ace, it would be different. If you want to see a similar effect- see the problem of the generic T-70s. The T-70 is good, but it's a Poe Dameron/Red Ace carrier, the same way the E-wing is a Corran boat.

I'm not sure I follow you there. The E-Wing *isn't* good, but Corran is good enough to make up for the handicap (or at least that's the received wisdom). I don't know if the same is true of the T-70. Is that what you're saying about the Starviper?

I've flown xizor a ton and never once used a Z-swarm with him. As WWHSD said, you don't need a full swarm to use hisa bility, you just need a ship next to him to pass damage to. I mostly flew him with 2 titled y-wings and a z95 blocker and had pretty good luck with it. I've also flown him alongside a YV666 as something with lots of hull to pass damage off to.

Point is: his meatbags are exactly what gets focussed, because it has no autothrusters nor 3 evades.

Xizor shoots his 3 dice with focus +TL? Okay, but it's almost half of your list.

Just give this ship to Cobra. This way it'll at least not have to spend the glorious EPT to get itself an ability to not get dodged т_т

and really start benefitting from the dial and the boost-roll

So much nonsense to catch up on here...

First the easy one B-wing Vs. Starviper. Yes, the B-wing costs 3 less and can take 3 more damage than a Starviper. But, its dial is limited by reds. Red 1 turns, 3 banks, and 4 straight. It also only has a single red 2 K-turn. The Starviper is all greens and whites! It laughs at stress while it 1 turns and you fly by it still in its arc! It is superior in how it dramatically u-turns with 3 s-loops. It is a little less predictable as it has two options.

This leads us to the fear of stress. As I already covered... it laughs at stress. Stress does not limit its dial (other than the s-loop). I have kept stress on a Starviper for half a game before. The Starviper does not feel the pressure to remove stress like many other ships do.

Because of both of these things, the Starviper is also more durable than a B-wing. It stays alive thanks to a host of advantages including, autothrusters, 3 green dice, and a great dial.

But again, comparing a Starviper to a B-wing (or any other tanky jouster) is just as laughable as comparing it to an arc dodger. A well played Starviper forces opponents to be concerned where it will be next round and know it won't be able to out fly the Starviper and the rest of its fleet. Starvipers are the game's best fighter. Its role is to force an opponent to chose wither it wants to get hit by a left uppercut or a right cross. Both choices suck...

B-wings are great tanks. Thank the Maker that they fly next to X-wings rather than Starvipers or then you'd REALLY hate them.

That being said... PLEASE let the base G-1A Starfighter be 21 points!
2x Enforcer with AT + 2x (base) G-1A with FCS = mass destruction!

So much nonsense

I dare you take SvSvSvSv squad and show us how epic grand and just utter cheese it is.

exactly 100 pts that are THE GAME'S BEST FIGHTER

that laugh at stress

and are more durable than B-wing...

Jesus...

If you're arguing against ficklegreendice and he's defending a ship with 3 Agility...

Xizor + thrusters >>>>> green dice

Star Viper needs more pilots. Needs some tweaks but the pilots would be the biggest help.

I like to run Advanced Sensors on them for much better maneuverability.

I think part of the issue people have with the Starviper that they're not used to thinking of hybrid ships. A good Xizor build can tank hard at certain ranges, arc dodge some ships, out-joust others, and outmaneuver others. It's not like EU-Vader or Soontir where their plan is "get out of arc, shoot, repeat" against basically every ship in the game. Similarly, it's not a B-wing, whose plan of action is "point guns at the other guy". I'm not trying to say that Vader, Soontir, or B-wings take no thought to fly, but their general approach to winning is largely the same from ship to ship. Stuff like the Starviper, or frankly the Defender, since one is often compared to the other, have some broad advantages, none of which might be overwhelming in general, but can be used to defeat other ships.

So much nonsense

I dare you take SvSvSvSv squad and show us how epic grand and just utter cheese it is.

exactly 100 pts that are THE GAME'S BEST FIGHTER

that laugh at stress

and are more durable than B-wing...

Jesus...

Four Starvipers would end up being just as powerful as 4 Interceptors, and more so than 4 B-wings or X-wings.

But why would you? You get the most out of these ships when you have a different kind of ship(s) that can capitalize on what the Starviper brings to the table. I personally like to escort Firesprays with two Starvipers.

...and please don't call me Jesus in public.

Overcosted by 4 points, the same amount as the Tie Advanced was.

So much nonsense

I dare you take SvSvSvSv squad and show us how epic grand and just utter cheese it is.

exactly 100 pts that are THE GAME'S BEST FIGHTER

that laugh at stress

and are more durable than B-wing...

Jesus...

Four Starvipers would end up being just as powerful as 4 Interceptors, and more so than 4 B-wings or X-wings.

But why would you? You get the most out of these ships when you have a different kind of ship(s) that can capitalize on what the Starviper brings to the table. I personally like to escort Firesprays with two Starvipers.

...and please don't call me Jesus in public.

Pretty sure 4 naked Starvipers would lose a majority of time against 4 B-Wings with Advanced sensors, or 5 Tie-I with autothrusters.

So much nonsense

I dare you take SvSvSvSv squad and show us how epic grand and just utter cheese it is.

exactly 100 pts that are THE GAME'S BEST FIGHTER

that laugh at stress

and are more durable than B-wing...

Jesus...

Four Starvipers would end up being just as powerful as 4 Interceptors, and more so than 4 B-wings or X-wings.

But why would you? You get the most out of these ships when you have a different kind of ship(s) that can capitalize on what the Starviper brings to the table. I personally like to escort Firesprays with two Starvipers.

...and please don't call me Jesus in public.

Pretty sure 4 naked Starvipers would lose a majority of time against 4 B-Wings with Advanced sensors, or 5 Tie-I with autothrusters.

I'd take that bet. I've flown against 4 B-wings (loaded a few different ways) and won every time. I've also taken on 4 PTL RGs and won.

I'll wager 200 quatloos on Stone37.

Much like the E-wing the stats to point cost isn't that good. However unlike the E-wing the Star Viper doesn't have Corran Horn or an ability on par with it.

I think the ship is fine, probably just a few points too expensive and could use some new pilots.

It's really unfortunate that Xizor's ability doesn't work on Vader, TLTs, and now Wampa...

Imagine a PS9 Guri... *drool*

Guri's crazy enough as it is; PS9 and she'd be insane.

I'm contemplating XIzor, Guri & 2 Z95's for the next store tourney.

I'm contemplating XIzor, Guri & 2 Z95's for the next store tourney.

Mind sharing the list? PM if top secret!

Guri's crazy enough as it is; PS9 and she'd be insane.

No more so than Soontir.

I'm contemplating XIzor, Guri & 2 Z95's for the next store tourney.

Mind sharing the list? PM if top secret!

What he said!

Xizor shoots his 3 dice with focus +TL? Okay, but it's almost half of your list.

"Almost half your list" = 2-3 more points than Soontir. Who shoots 3 dice with focus and no rerolls.

Nothing particularly off-the-wall:

Prince Xizor - Predator, Autothrusters (34)

Guri - Wired, Virago, Advanced Sensors, Inertial Dampners, Autothrusters (38)

Black Sun Soldier x2 (26)

Guri's pretty much where I want her, but I may switch Xizor to Veteran Instincts, downgrade the Soldiers to Binayres and give them both Feedback Arrays.

It's either going to be this or a variation on the Marauders/Scyks again.

The starviper is not a "good" ship, it is certainly overcosted not by a lot, but same sort of issue as the Xwing, for similar reasons I expect FFG decided that 4 with upgrades were too good and priced that out as an option in the same way as they prevented 5 Xwings. I own 3 of them, so no I haven't flown 4 naked but I do fly them and like them.

Reading this topic shows some very bazar logic, most of the defenders admit that the starviper has serious issues but simultaneously say its fine as it is seriously?

Its ok to like it and admit it needs balancing.

And yes I am one of those people that think that FFG should (and Will continue) to make small adjustments to try to keep everything relevant instead of letting the game stagnate with just a few lists dominating.

General issues;

Its very expensive for its stat line, this means it needs to make up for it with the dial, which it doesn't quite manage a little more green or higher speeds would have helped, would a green hard turn have really been to much to ask for? If it was the only ship with S loops that would have been some justification, but you look at the FO tie and see what the viper could have been, or at least that FFG have decided to make better ships cheaper.

So actions, pretty good selection, but critically missing the evade (much like the defender on release, which looks like it will be fixed).

Upgrade slots, what upgrades? The unique title is a real kick in the teeth, effectively limiting you to running one with upgrades, they could have given the extra upgrade slots at the currant points and it would still have been just ok.

So we have a ship that is arc dodger prices which can't joust and lacks a role, it just doesn't quite cut it,

Pilots

Generics, they could have been PS2 and 4 with an EPT for 2pts less and they would have some use, the PS 3 really should have an EPT there is no reason not to any more.

Guri she has a good pilot ability with low PS, had they switched her PS with Xizor we would see more of her, and no that wouldn't be broken, she costs as much if not more than the typical Fel, Vader, Poe in fact any small base ace you see on the table. Good value for points? Not really.

Xizor one of the oddest abilities in the game, yes you can make one effect build with him, if you are prepared to build your whole list around him, and that's still a very average list, no other ace requires such a build, you don't take any other ace and then find yourself forced to take 4 or 5 headhunters or forget your ability, really the only thing going for him is decent PS for using his movent actions. What most people seem to miss with his ability where you situationally transfer a hit to another ship, you still took a hit, yes its now on one of your headhunters but most other aces in the 40pt+ bracket would not have taken that hit in the first place, and the rest can regenerate it.

Its a slightly overcosted ship that needs a small boost, nothing major we aren't in TieAdvanced territory but its similar situation to defender, and E wing, FFG overestimated the value and played it too safe.

Fixes, I know its becoming a dirty word to some people.

Very likely to be in form of a title, I can't see a modification working.

Discount the ship, really don't see them doing this, but discount on an upgrade that might work, something like ion cannon would fit the fluff but not very workable.

Lose the torp slot for some thing else would be an improvement,

Dial, could turn hard turns green, but I think they will try and avoid that, and as others have said do we really need it to become fixed to Push the limit? But improving the action efficiency would work a little better, maybe too similar to IG88 and the new defender title but "after taking a boost or barrel roll action take a free evade action" would kill two birds with one stone.

Simply add evade and/or senor slot at 0pts, again not likely.

The hell you talking about "serious issues"

The viper has ONE issue: overpriced generics

Well, two if you count the players that expect it to be soontir/Vader and not something different but still viable

Xizor is an excellent jouster. Before TLTs, I would run him with 4 Binayre Pirates equipped with "Hot Shot" Blasters. I never had any trouble keeping him in range of his meat shields. With his ability, he does not need to arc dodge. I also never had any problem dealing damage with the Z95 mini-swarm. He has an excellent ability, but it does require building a list around him.

Best boost I can think of for it is a titles for under PS5 that gives you a modification for -2 points. I'd run 4 PS1 vipers with autothrusters any day

Best boost I can think of for it is a titles for under PS5 that gives you a modification for -2 points. I'd run 4 PS1 vipers with autothrusters any day

Sign me up as well.

The Starviper is one my favourite ships in terms of aesthetics. Love dat cockpit.