I recently played a store championship and took 6th out of 43. First large tourney I ever played.

List:

IG-88B (48 pts)

VI / FCS / HLC / AT

Y-Wing Thug (25 Pts)

TLT

Unhinged

Star Viper Black Sun Ace (27 pts)

AT

The list did really well. In most games the Star Viper went down first. In 2 of those it died before shooting in the 2nd round of combat due to pilot skill 1. In one game it and the Y wing lived and I lost the Aggressor. The star viper is my favorite model and I think this is a great ship contrary to many beliefs. I would love to play this thing at 40 pts but don't think that will be effective, or better to say don't think the other 60 will be effective.

A new list I am thinking list

IG-88B (44 pts)

FCS / Mangler / AT

Y-Wing Thug (24 pts)

TLT

Starviper Guri (32 pts)

AT

This build looses the Unhinged on Thug (which is nice), VI on Aggressor and swaps cannons. I never used the VI on Agressor so really just downgrading the cannon some. With the Meta I am seeing a lot of 1 AGI ships with lots of hull. I figure FCS and pilot ability will help with horrible rolls and use the focus I would take on 2nd roll. There are a lot of 2 dmg crits out there as well.

so question is:

Is Guri at PS 5 and his ability worth the trade off of cannon swap and astromech on Thug. With all the TLT's out there are PS 2 Guri would be able to fly after and maybe get into range 1. That would leave the TLT's shooting at someone else so just a trade off there. at PS 5 he would shoot before the PS2 guys (which there seems to be a lot in current meta) so maybe doing some more dmg before he goes down.

2nd option would be

Black Sun Vigo and AT for 29 pts which would allow me to shoot before the PS 2 guys and allow

1. HLC upgrade

or

2. Unhinged, Crackshot, inertial dampeners

or

???

THOUGHTS?

Thanks in advance

I think your original list is the best. Just trade VI for crackshot if you want. If people are shooting your starviper first, that is a good thing.

How key was autothrusters for you on low pilot skill ship?

I recently played a store championship and took 6th out of 43. First large tourney I ever played.

List:

IG-88B (48 pts)

VI / FCS / HLC / AT

Y-Wing Thug (25 Pts)

TLT

Unhinged

Star Viper Black Sun Ace (27 pts)

AT

The list did really well. In most games the Star Viper went down first. In 2 of those it died before shooting in the 2nd round of combat due to pilot skill 1. In one game it and the Y wing lived and I lost the Aggressor. The star viper is my favorite model and I think this is a great ship contrary to many beliefs. I would love to play this thing at 40 pts but don't think that will be effective, or better to say don't think the other 60 will be effective.

If your Viper is dying quickly, then I feel that you should think about flying it a bit differently. The problem for the star viper is that it does not handle multiple shots a turn very well. The only range where you should be taking that kind of focus is at R3 where you at least get autothrusters (and your focus token) to keep it alive. However, even better than that is if you can draw your opponent's attention away from the Viper for that first round of shooting, so it can then zoom in close next turn and create some blocks so your other ships get shots on actionless targets. This also protects the star viper, because the blocked ship can't shoot it, and its also likely that other ships will have moved up and not have it in arc. Once in close, you can use its excellent short moves + either barrel roll/boost to continue blocking, or failing that, you can s-loop (preferably in a safe direction) and set yourself up for shots and future blocks.

I have a similar list I've been using with good success so far (although I've only played a few games yet):

IG88D w/ predator, advanced sensors, autothrusters & ion bomb = 46

2 Blacksun Enforcers w/ autothrusters = 27 x 2

100

I try to draw my opponent toward the IG88 (although R3 is still preferable for the autothruster advantage). Then once the Vipers get in close, and force bumps and mess up formation, my opponent should have difficult time focus firing on anything by that point. Agility 3 + focus token is quite durable against 1 shot per turn (but not so much against multiple shots...)

For your list, I'd suggest this:

IG88B w/ predator, advanced sensors, 'mangler' & autothrusters = 48

Thug w/ TLT & unhinged = 25

Blacksun Enforcer w/ autothrusters = 27

100

You lose damage output with this change, because HLC is undeniably superior to 'mangler' in terms of raw damage. However, you gain survivability: its much easier to keep your IG88 safe with advanced sensors. It gives you the ability to make surprise moves (pre-dial boost before s-looping, or even to crash into a bunch of enemy ships to avoid taking focus fire, for example, but still getting a focus/evade token). Predator also ensures that your damage output stays close to FCS levels, especially against low Pilot Skill opposition (which you mention is common in your local meta).

Cool Hand allows your Aggressor to still have modifiers after performing a K-turn or Sloop.

Adrenaline Rush is infinitely better here, since you have access to TL and Boost as well, not to mention keeping your dial open (stress-free) for the next turn.

Cool Hand allows your Aggressor to still have modifiers after performing a K-turn or Sloop.

Adrenaline Rush is infinitely better here, since you have access to TL and Boost as well, not to mention keeping your dial open (stress-free) for the next turn.

Wired is better than both of them because you don't have to throw it away.

I think your original list is the best. Just trade VI for crackshot if you want. If people are shooting your starviper first, that is a good thing.

How key was autothrusters for you on low pilot skill ship?

AT came into play almost ever game on the Viper and a few games 3-4 times easily.

Cool Hand allows your Aggressor to still have modifiers after performing a K-turn or Sloop.

Adrenaline Rush is infinitely better here, since you have access to TL and Boost as well, not to mention keeping your dial open (stress-free) for the next turn.

Wired is better than both of them because you don't have to throw it away.

So I was thinking of Wired but then thought that was basically the same as FCS as long as I had it. I guess it comes down to will the previous turns target still be alive and will I have the target in arc. I think wired with FCS is very situational and the 1 pt could be better spent elsewhere.

I recently played a store championship and took 6th out of 43. First large tourney I ever played.

List:

IG-88B (48 pts)

VI / FCS / HLC / AT

Y-Wing Thug (25 Pts)

TLT

Unhinged

Star Viper Black Sun Ace (27 pts)

AT

The list did really well. In most games the Star Viper went down first. In 2 of those it died before shooting in the 2nd round of combat due to pilot skill 1. In one game it and the Y wing lived and I lost the Aggressor. The star viper is my favorite model and I think this is a great ship contrary to many beliefs. I would love to play this thing at 40 pts but don't think that will be effective, or better to say don't think the other 60 will be effective.

If your Viper is dying quickly, then I feel that you should think about flying it a bit differently. The problem for the star viper is that it does not handle multiple shots a turn very well. The only range where you should be taking that kind of focus is at R3 where you at least get autothrusters (and your focus token) to keep it alive. However, even better than that is if you can draw your opponent's attention away from the Viper for that first round of shooting, so it can then zoom in close next turn and create some blocks so your other ships get shots on actionless targets. This also protects the star viper, because the blocked ship can't shoot it, and its also likely that other ships will have moved up and not have it in arc. Once in close, you can use its excellent short moves + either barrel roll/boost to continue blocking, or failing that, you can s-loop (preferably in a safe direction) and set yourself up for shots and future blocks.

I have a similar list I've been using with good success so far (although I've only played a few games yet):

IG88D w/ predator, advanced sensors, autothrusters & ion bomb = 46

2 Blacksun Enforcers w/ autothrusters = 27 x 2

100

I try to draw my opponent toward the IG88 (although R3 is still preferable for the autothruster advantage). Then once the Vipers get in close, and force bumps and mess up formation, my opponent should have difficult time focus firing on anything by that point. Agility 3 + focus token is quite durable against 1 shot per turn (but not so much against multiple shots...)

For your list, I'd suggest this:

IG88B w/ predator, advanced sensors, 'mangler' & autothrusters = 48

Thug w/ TLT & unhinged = 25

Blacksun Enforcer w/ autothrusters = 27

100

You lose damage output with this change, because HLC is undeniably superior to 'mangler' in terms of raw damage. However, you gain survivability: its much easier to keep your IG88 safe with advanced sensors. It gives you the ability to make surprise moves (pre-dial boost before s-looping, or even to crash into a bunch of enemy ships to avoid taking focus fire, for example, but still getting a focus/evade token). Predator also ensures that your damage output stays close to FCS levels, especially against low Pilot Skill opposition (which you mention is common in your local meta).

So I do think you're on to something with the flying. When talking with one of my opponents they had no plan to shoot at the Viper with 3 AGI dice first but that was the target I gave them they said. My thoughts were I want all 3 of my ships firing in the opening salvo and as few of theirs firing back, which of course is a super solid strategy. I think they turned towards my viper vs a straight joust as it was coming from the flank. I thought they would go straight but since it went at PS1 the 2 PS 2 Y wings closed to range 2 of it after I moved as that combined with another ship or two made it the primary target as my wing ended up at range 3. Now I might have been able to barrel roll to range 3 for AT but against the TLTs no extra dice if I was PS3 for those 2 extra points.

The TLT Y wings are pretty big. Not everyone runs them but they are solid and nasty. Also the multiple BBXX lists and such have a lot of PS 2 guys. I actually played a BBXXZ list and took on 2 X's with the viper. I made the 2 X's chase it around the board for 5-6 rounds while my Aggressor and Y Wing demolished the 2 B's and the Z. AT were huge there.

The 2 games I lost was actually due to bad piloting of the Aggressor. Both times the ship got stuck for multiple rounds without being able to shoot. One was a missed sloop turn where it didn't clear by a itsy bitsy bit and I got stuck 3-4 rounds while trying to fly around the outside of an asteroid field and the other ships with stress. The second was 2 Ion Y ings got behind me and I couldn't turn around with asteroids and the edge of the board and then them ioning me.

SO no ones like the Guri option?

IG-88B (44 pts)

FCS Mangler AT

Thug Y Wing (24 pts)

TLT

Viper Guri (32 pts)

AT

100 pts

I dont like the idea of dropping the hlc but ive never used the mangler either. What do you think of...

Aggressor: · IG-88B (36)

Crack Shot (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

StarViper: · Guri (30)

Crack Shot (1)

Autothrusters (2)

· Virago (1)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Z-95 Headhunter: Black Sun Soldier (13)

Although i might be inclined to pull some points to get glitterstems.

I made this list and played a game with it last night vs HLC/Crackshot Brobots:

IG88B, Mangler, VI, Autothrusters, FCS, GlittersTim

Syndicate Thug, Agromech, TLT

PS1 Starviper, Autothrusters

I really liked playing this list! The thug didn't acheive much before going down, but that's to be expected against high agility/autothruster targets.

The starviper pulled off a couple fo blocks a put a total of about 4 hits on IGs before going down.

The plan with my IG88B was always to take range one shots if I could, with the mangler as gunner backup and to make my range three shots a little more tasty.

This worked well on turn two when the Viper took a 4 forward followed by a boost to block one of the opposition bots, then my IG swooped in behind for a R1 shot modified shot against naked green dice. Think I took 3 shields off with that first shot.

I think I'd definately keep the Starviper at PS1. The blocking potential is fantastic.

I think I should give the thug another chance, but if I were to swap him out, not sure what I'd take. I'd consider a second PS1 Viper, but I'd probably have to lose the GlittersTim and get dampners instead.

SO no ones like the Guri option?

IG-88B (44 pts)

FCS Mangler AT

Thug Y Wing (24 pts)

TLT

Viper Guri (32 pts)

AT

100 pts

I like it. Shame not to have Advanced Sensors and an EPT on Guri, though. And Unhinged Astromech makes TLT Thugs so much more nippy...

What about dropping the cannon?

IG88-C (42)

Aggressor (36), Adrenaline Rush (1), Advanced Sensors (3), Autothrusters (2)

Guri (33)

StarViper (30), Virago (1), Fire Control System (2)

Syndicate Thug (25)

Y-Wing (18), Twin Laser Turret (6), Unhinged Astromech (1)

So I do think you're on to something with the flying. When talking with one of my opponents they had no plan to shoot at the Viper with 3 AGI dice first but that was the target I gave them they said. My thoughts were I want all 3 of my ships firing in the opening salvo and as few of theirs firing back, which of course is a super solid strategy.

This is exactly what I mean when I said 'flying a bit differently'. Getting all of your ships firing is not the important part, so in this case, its not necessarily a 'super solid strategy'. Your top priority goal with Star Vipers is not to worry whether you are getting good shots on the opening exchange, but to make sure they don't die! Keep them alive first and foremost. If they get shots, that's a bonus! Now most of the time, they should be able to get a shot if you can set up a R3 exchange (autothrusters protects you here). But even if you get shots, your not likely to deal any significant damage (because its R3). You want to make sure you don't take any damage though! And you don't need high PS to do it, you just need to plan ahead a bit when making your approach. If you get that sweet R3 initial engagement, then you can really start to control your opponent. So really, its the SECOND turn of shooting that is most important. Now you get to leverage the power of Pilot Skill 1. You control where ships end up because your PS 1 ship moves first and there's nothing your opponent can do about it except try to guess where your going and avoid getting screwed over. So block him. Set up R1 shots with your big hitters on actionless targets.

Now, if it looks like your opponent is setting up really good positions and you don't feel confident you can get R3, then its probably better to kite your viper, using a 2 turn or 3 bank probably, plus a boost or barrel roll to get right out of arcs (against all turrets, don't bother with the boost/BR unless you absolutely need it, because a focus will likely protect you better).

One thing about blocking though. While its usually the best option if you can get it (and the Viper's dial + boost/BR makes it easier to do), there are times when its dangerous: If there are 4 ships (like BBXX) and you block the first one, but the two in the back have shots on your viper (at R1) then blocking in that case is a bad idea because you might lose the Viper anyway...

So admittedly, its sometimes tough to say what the 'best' move is in any situation because dice add that extra layer of unpredictability, but if you are always picking moves that put your Viper in the least amount of danger, I don't think you can go too wrong. Practicing different approaches will help figure out what to do in different situations too.

SO no ones like the Guri option?

IG-88B (44 pts)

FCS Mangler AT

Thug Y Wing (24 pts)

TLT

Viper Guri (32 pts)

AT

100 pts

The reason I don't like it is because I don't feel Guri is adding anything useful to the list here. You could just take a generic Viper for essentially the same benefit and have some extra points to beef up the IG and thug. Basically, each ship costs too much to get all the goodies it needs to be most effective, so you are forced to skimp on their set-ups making them individually less effective.

Personally, I'd rather have the PS1 Viper for blocking if you see a lot of PS 2. But I understand if you want the ability to move after and shoot before such enemies, so the jump to a PS 3 Vigo is not a bad idea at all. I also think Guri is excellent against any generic opposition, but only if you give her some extras to increase her efficiency.

I still think the list I suggested above is ideal for these three ships, but if you want a higher PS Viper, how about:

IG88B w/ crack shot, FCS, 'mangler' & autothrusters = 45

Vigo w/ autothrusters = 29

Thug w/ TLT & R4 agromech = 26

100

Trying to work in Guri leaves you with a sort of 'half-assed' IG88:

IG88C w/ advanced sensors & autothrusters = 41

Guri w/ lone wolf & autothrusters = 34

Thug w/ TLT & unhinged = 25

100

You could drop the unhinged to put predator on Guri or to give IG a 1 point EPT, but ultimately, your thug needs a droid to get the most out of twin laser turret...

If TLTs are your main concern, I like bumping up to the Vigo for 2 points. At 29 points, PS3, AGI3, 5 hp, with Autothrusters and Boost/Barrel Roll options is very strong against TLTs. It occupies a nice sweet spot of PS where you're not paying too much for it, and it has all the things you need to deal with the TLTs. Consequently, I like the squad that blade_mercurial suggested with the Crack Shot/Mangler IG-88B and Vigo.

Cool Hand allows your Aggressor to still have modifiers after performing a K-turn or Sloop.

Adrenaline Rush is infinitely better here, since you have access to TL and Boost as well, not to mention keeping your dial open (stress-free) for the next turn.

Wired is better than both of them because you don't have to throw it away.

So I was thinking of Wired but then thought that was basically the same as FCS as long as I had it. I guess it comes down to will the previous turns target still be alive and will I have the target in arc. I think wired with FCS is very situational and the 1 pt could be better spent elsewhere.

It is amazeballs for Defense when stressed.

I Just took 1st in a 5 round Tournament in Orlando and won a winter Kit with:

IG-88B (47 pts)

HLC

FCS

AT

Vigo Viper (PS3) (29pts)

AT

Thug Y Wing (24 pts)

TLT

The HLC & FCS was brutal. There were a few turns when I wished I had advanced sensors or wired ripping out S loops or K turns but you can't have everything all the time. The Star Viper is the only ship that never got killed. I went 5 - 0 loosing the Y wing 3 times and the aggressor once. I love the Viper, I did play against 2 other PS 3 ships that I got to go second but not sure I used any boosts barrel rolls all that much differently. So I'm keeping the HLC for sure.

Question is: If I drop Viper back to PS 1 what's the best way to use those 2 pts. I have even thought of Enhanced Scopes for PS 0 during activations. Yes that thing that you NEVER see used. it's 1 pt and I get to place my big ass ship base somewhere I know it will fit ahead of time for 1 pt. add that an Inert. Damp. for another movement trick. All these to keep that HLC firing away when you need it. loosing FCS though can suck. I would have to take Predator to offset but that's only really helping when not doing a red maneuver.