I currently run Youngster with marksmanship. Would Outmaneuver be a better choice?

My current list.

Youngster with Marksmanship

Wampa

Chaser

Obsidian squadron pilot X 4

Total 98 points. Would Outmaneuver be a better option? Outmaneuver would trigger without having to spend an action, helping with the TIE fighters anemic dice pool, but Marksmanship is nice for crits. What is everyone's opinion?

Outmaneuver doesn't do anything on Youngster (not an Action: card). Personally like Expert Handling due to it making normal barrel rolls better. Other than that there really aren't any good cards to use with Youngster.

Ninja'd

Don't forget "outmaneuver" is not an action!

Only Youngster will be able to use it.

Unfortunately he can only send action EPTs to nearby TIEs, not the ones that just give an ability.

Personally I kind of like Expert Handling, it just upgrades their barrel roll without a downside. All the attack EPTs make your ships less defensive, and with EH you can at least try to dodge and shake locks too.

the best ept is the unreleased Action: ept that's actually good

TBD

Your choices seem to be:

Squad Leader - As a unique EPT this would be GREAT to give to everyone except that spending the Action only can give a lower PS ship an action.

Expert Handling - Allies can no BR and dump being TLed although they take stress unless they already can BR.

Daredevil - Another movement action although this one causes stress

Marksmanship - Super Attack Focus is a questionable action when attacking with three dice but with two...

Expose - Here there is still the question of is +1 Red/-1 Green really an improvement over just taking Focus.

If your running youngster and wampa together anyway, marksmanship is the way to go so you can consistently trigger wampa's ability.

Right now I guess it's marksmanship but until they release some better Action ept's I feel like Youngster is kind of overrated. Just my opinion.

Expose - Here there is still the question of is +1 Red/-1 Green really an improvement over just taking Focus.

3 no focus is equal to 2 with focus (1.5 estimated)

4 no focus (range 1 + expose) is worse than 3 with focus (2 vs 2.25)

and that doesn't include the penalty to agility.

But I wonder, could you make a elite tie squad? all with ptl..... the math is marginally better for +1 die with focus vs focus+tl

Despite my hatred for Expose's very existence, I've actually toyed with a list idea around it and "Youngster". You could team him with Mauler Mithel, Scourge, and Zeta Leader (and then one more TIE of your choice, perhaps. Original idea was Backstabber, but no EPT slot).

The two regular TIEs get Predator, Zeta gets Wired. Bam, you have three TIEs firing 4+ dice with some modifications.

Wait, I think I've got it:

"Youngster"

Expose

"Mauler Mithel"

Predator

"Scourge"

Predator

"Zeta Leader"

Wired

TIE MkII

"Backstabber"

Experimental Interface

There. Four TIE Fighters potentially slinging out 4+ modified dice. Totally forgot about Experimental Interface, but it'd totally allow 'stabber to Focus and then activate Expose, giving him four focus modified dice whenever he's out of arc.

Deep down I know it's still a terrible list, but part of me is still dreaming of the stars aligning and a quartet of TIEs slinging out 20 red dice in a single turn.

EDIT: I would like to go on record and state that I've always firmly believed that Expose is complete crap. Indeed, it's the "Fel's Wrath" of EPTs, overshadowed by numerous cards that do what it does only better and for cheaper/the same price (Lt. Lorrir: forever preventing FW from ever, ever seeing a table for more than laughs). Even Saboteur at least only costs 2pts. Meanwhile, Expose is tied for THE most expensive EPT alongside Opportunist, which is actually a solid card when flown in a squad with Palob, Wes, Jax, or tagged onto a mid-PS pilot.

To actually answer the question and not do more of my theorycrafting bull, like... Expert Handling. Your TIEs are gonna barrel roll anyways, might as well give them the option to break TLs. Especially sounds handy if he's flying with higherish PS squadmates who can effectively go "LOL, nope" on lower PS ships trying to get a lock. Could possibly be combined with Carnor Jax for pushing your opponent into a homicidal rage.

And maybe there's a small argument to be made for Marksmanship. It'll leave your TIEs exposed (heh), but maybe combined with Crack Shot you could insure forcing threw a bunch of crits, which could be nasty.

But by and large, there's just not much he can do. Can't help but feel that most of the "action" EPTs work best with a higher PS pilot, meaning that him with a swarm of generics is a recipe for disaster. With higher PS pilots that have a better idea of when they're getting shot at or if they're gonna be TLed? Well... maybe? 17pts to give your squad the ability to all break TLs isn't terrible .

Don't forget that he's a PS6 EPT for 15 points. He's absolutely playable even with an ability that does nothing.

Exactly so. There's nothing wrong with just using him as a black squadron pilot with baked-in Veteran Instincts and just sticking Crack Shot on him. You're wasting his pilot ability but it doesn't really cost you anything.

Marksmanship is nice if Wampa is around, and not completely bad without it, but for most squads, I'd say Expert Handling or Squad Leader.

Expert Handling is nice now and likely to become extra tempting once wave 8 rolls around; with guidance chips making everyone go 'oooh' and 'aaaah' over missiles and torpedoes again, breaking target locks becomes extra tempting. As it stands, removing a target lock should save you about 0.75 damage on a 3-dice shot....nearly but not quite as much as an evade action. By comparison, if someone locks you up with a 4-dice torpedo or missile, breaking the target lock and forcing them to make an unmodified 3-dice shot could stop nearly double that damage.... and if you turn a 4-dice torpedo into a 2-dice unmodified shot from a TIE bomber you've saved massive damage, especially if said attack was an assault missile or ion torpedo that might have messed up the rest of the swarm.

Squad Leader - I maintain it's good, despite not knowing what it's for. On Vader, or someone else with free actions, fair enough, but hear it allows the swarm to pass action economy around; whenever someone doesn't have a shot, or isn't being shot at, their action can be passed 'down the chain' to someone who can use it better. It's better in a squad with many different pilot skill values.

Expose - it's the one everyone raves about then realises doesn't really work. To get it to work you need to have dice modification as well - one extra die is no better than a focus token, but if you have a way of modifying dice, then the extra die is worth more than adding reroll onto a focus token.

Daredevil - I so want to be able to make this work. But I'm unconvinced that stress and damage is worth the movement option. My personal view - maybe worth it in an academy pilot swarm; letting your blockers get into position far better; academy pilots are disposable anyway, after all......

Youngster with Daredevil can fit in a 7 TIE swarm alongside Howlrunner - if you're using an academy pilot to block and mess up people's formation, there's a pretty good chance it's dead anyway, so stress and damage isn't so bad.

The problem with Expert Handling is that it does little to nothing against higher PS opponents. By the time they're locking you you'll have rolled already. If we're talking Blacks and named TIEs your PS will be decidedly midrange, at 4-6. Redline, Tomax, Dengar, Horton, Keyan and maybe even Nera will still blow you away.

My advice is, do not use Youngster yet.

Wait for an EPT that he can actually use and doesn't kill your swarm faster.

True, but you can still break locks from 'generic' bombers, or 'opportunistic' locks by someone out of arc setting up a shot for next turn.

No, it's not that great; against a high PS opponent it'll just make them spend an action to reacquire the lock.

But on the other hand, you're only paying 5 points to give your entire squad the ability.

sorry but the best currently is none. You're going to get better value not using Youngster yet. The idea is that we are probably getting some new action EPTs.

But marksmanship or expert handling probably. Problem is that expert handling is really paying a lot for little value.

the best ept is the unreleased Action: ept that's actually good

BTW: Cmon Fickle, make the 10000 full! And congrats in advance! (He had 9999 when i qouted this!)

You pay 2 points for Expert Handling, the same that an oponent pay for Fire Control System.

Maybe the function of Youngster is not that you can multiply some EPT cheaply, but that you can get some previously impossible combinations. Like this:

"Youngster" (15)

Marksmanship (3)

"Epsilon Leader" (19)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Push the Limit (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Push the Limit (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Push the Limit (3)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Youngsters ability is a trap.

You pay 2 points for Expert Handling, the same that an oponent pay for Fire Control System.

That actually is a good point... it pretty much shuts down the effectiveness of FCS on non-buzzsaw builds.

Crack shot.

...

"Youngster"

Expose

...

"Backstabber"

Experimental Interface

There. Four TIE Fighters potentially slinging out 4+ modified dice. Totally forgot about Experimental Interface, but it'd totally allow 'stabber to Focus and then activate Expose, giving him four focus modified dice whenever he's out of arc.

...

There is much debate about if that would work or not. An entire, multi page thread worth in fact. Backstabber doesn't have any upgrade cards that take an Action to use so EI is wasted on him.