Hi.

I built up 4 mono decks with a couple of Core Sets and have been playing with them for some loooooong playtesting nights

Now I decided to begin to work on this "project". It's still in my mind and once I'll get my 3rd copy of the CS I'll try to build it up...But I'd like to do that with some advices and ideas to make it better.

I don't really now how it can work...I have a general intuitive idea, but that's it.

Here's the list. I'll comment a couple of choices at the end of the thread.

Units 28

3x Squig Herders

3x Followers of Mork

3x Black Orc Squad

3x Boar Boyz

2x Night Goblins

2x Doom Divers

3x Lobber Crew

3x Savage Marauders

3x Festering Nurglings

3x Chaos Nights

Support s 5

2x Shrine to Nurgle

3x Chaos/Orc Alliance

Tactics 27

2x Smash-Go-Boom!

3x Rip dere 'eads off!

3x We'z bigga!

3x Pillage

3x Waaagh!

2x Troll Vomit

3x Seduced by Darkness

3x Flames of Tzeentch

3x Blood for the Blood God

2x Slaneesh's Domination

TOT. 60

For a "number/loyalty" factor, it's an ORC CAPITAL deck.

As you can see, is a "two-sided" deck , with an Aggro feeling with cheap insidious Units (Festering Nurglings, Squig Herders, Followers of Mork) and some nice boosts (Waaagh!, We'z bigga!).

On the other side , we have bigger Units, that we can call "finishers" (Chaos Knights, Boar Boyz) and different removals (Pillage, Flames of Tzeentch, Blood for the Blood God, Smash-Go-Boom!).

I put in "Rip dere 'eads off!" for the SURPRISE FACTOR and "Shrine to Nurgle" for control (as well as Troll Vomit).

You can even see that it's surprisingly low on Supports . The Idea is to have a flexible deck , with different unexpected choice, to protect the early "rush" and the late game "dominance".

That's it.

What do you think?

Looks interesting and I will give it a try, when my next 2 CS arrives, but I am wondering if it is a good choice to use 60 cards. In magic words: "cards are better than other cards, so use minimum allowed cards".

I completely understand your point.

I'm one of the min/max fanatics

Right now, I'm playin' with 50 cards decks...

But here we have something different from other games...We have a MIN and a MAX number...It could mean nothing to someone, but it's important. It means that the game has been designed with THIS in mind. You can balance the card in any way, staying in the 50/100 range.

I feel pretty good with the 3x/60 cards ratio (because of Agot experience) and I do really think that with a good balancing, this game can work even with 90 cards. That's just a matter of time, as Dream Theater would say.

Consider it as a "little" experiment...

But now that you told me that...I'm workin' on a 50 cards version to test it What do you think I can pull out to stay at 50?

THANKS in advance for your time...

DB_Cooper said:

But now that you told me that...I'm workin' on a 50 cards version to test it What do you think I can pull out to stay at 50?

Initial, what-I-would-probably-drop:

2x Doom Divers or 2x Night Goblins

3x Chaos/Orc Alliance

3x Rip dere 'eads off!

2x Slaneesh's Domination

Could be talking out of my ass of course, who knows .

Ehehe, I hope you don't...Or maybe I do it too, while posting non-sens-self-destructive-but-apparently-good-decks

Can I ask you the reason of your choices (if your ass spoke with a sense)?

I ask it cause I've some doubts about alliances to, even if in a multi-race deck one more loyalty icon is not bad...But I don't know if it's worth the deal...I've already done a long loyalty check...

And what about Slaneesh's Domination? Maybe is an "acceptable sacrifice", and I understand...Actually I'm playin' because of something I remember of the first night of play...A friend of mine was terribly losin' against Empire...It had a Slaneesh's Domination and nothing else in hand...Played it and...JUDGEMENT OF VERENA!!

That's what each Empire Player dreams about each night, isn't it?

3x Alliance. Like you said, 1 Loyalty probably won't make or break you, you can pay for it with resources.

3x Rip dere 'eads off. Tends to be an auto-development in most games. Not saying you don't need those, but as a Tactic, it's very situational at best IMO.

2x Slaanesh Domination. Depends on the metagame of course, do you know your opponents will be packing enough Tactics that your odds of getting them into play is worthwhile. Let's you see 3 randoms from their hand, which can be nice, but I think the card is more about getting free Tactics. Judgment of Verena is a shocker at first, but you shouldn't really get hit with it unless you've left yourself vulnerable to it. Here, Rip 'dere eads off could help, but Empire has better cards for moving developments; you really would need to get JoV and was the Elector card in one go, and since you're taking them at random from his hand...

For the Units, Doom Divers give you 2 Power, but have a Forced that Battlefield only, so won't benefit if you use them in KZ or QZ. Are Night Goblins there for their ability or for their cheap cost?

Of course, still early days, we don't really know 50 card, lean, free of fat decks are the best way to go. Better chance of getting those cards you need, but you could find yourself decked out against a larger deck or just outlasted in the hitting duel.

Agree and understand.

A couple of points:

- I put in Slaneesh's most because I like the effect and because you MAY play the revealed Tactic, so, no troubles about an unwanted Judgement! Anywya, YOU're right, I'd pull it out for a 50 double-race deck.

- Rip dere 'eads off: i didn't meant it to be the "development removal" it seems, but the "free big guy finisher" make more damage in some situations. Here we don't have ENORMOUS guys... But it's something like a 2/3 damage for 1 cost. It's like a "shot".

Just to explain how i used to play it

Thanks for the hints and more are welcome, if you have more

I am wondering why Slaanesh's Domination is preventing you from an unwanted Verena. You only reveal the cards and dont put them away. Or am I missing anything there.

I would first remove the Alliances and Troll Vomit. If you dont have any support and then play troll vomit, most times your enemy will have some advantage regarding resources and cards. You should have won the game, before you would play troll vomit.

jogo said:

SD let's you play any revealed Tactics for free. Although I think your oppo can play those Tactics first, in response to SD.

I know that, but if I play it for free it is Verena too.

jogo said:

Sure, but maybe opponent would draw Will of the Electors next turn, move your developments away (or some other development removal) and then zap you with JoV. If you use it now and have 1 dev in each zone, it is "wasted".

Or, what I believe the original scenario was, when you're on the losing end of a game and the Empire player simply wouldn't play it. I like Domination because at the very least it's a scouting card, and at best it gives you some unexpected options - random, to be sure, but that's Chaos for you

My theory on deck size is that it's a lot less important if you aren't looking for specific cards or combos. Is your deck centered around getting the Bloodthirster into play, and if you don't get one out you lose? The minimal decks are much more important. If you just need, as you say, hitters or finishers, and you have 9 of them, the difference between 50 and 60 is pretty minimal. I also think the mechanic in this game to allow you to control your draw makes larger decks more viable, and even important.

But that's all been discussed in another thread

Personally I have a Ork with a splash of chaos for control and i would totally run rip der eads off in your deck for the cheap big guy. I run it with troll vomit and bloodthursters since for 8 resources you can vomit the board - rip der eads of for a cheap thurster and waaagh for lots of damage that cant be canceled (which is really handy against dwarves.)

but thats just my two cents.

later

Yes, I use to run it...I'm havin' lots of "arguments" (even in my meta) about that choice...It seems like this interacton is not so "popular"...

I was thinkin' about the Thirster...

What I think is that the Rip + Surprise Guy is just a good sinergy, even with smaller guys than BT...With it it's just...Amazing!

I play rip their heads with Grimgor for cheap support & dev removal, or for a suprise defender which can totally ruin the other guy's plans.

Be aware, that his effect does not triggers when being faced up from the development state.

DB_Cooper said:

Many other card games also provide a range of MIN and MAX (IIRC, only MTG doesn't have a MAX value for deckbuliding). And, in my experience, only in VTES players are sticking to the MAX value (because you can put in those as many copy of a single card as you want, and because everytime you play a card, you draw one).

I'm not sure the game design was made with the precise 100 MAX limit in mind, beside allowing someone to put in more cards in order to outdeck his opponent. To me it is much more an arbitrary limit than a precisely calculated one. However, I do believe the 50 cards MIN, with the 3 card limit, was largely tested during the developpement of the game.

I'm also building a Destruction/AgroControl deck, with everything from Orcs to Night Elves, and I found the strategy to be quite robust and efficient. I own 2 CS for now (third in on the way). Here is my current 50 cards build :

Units 30 : 2x Crooked Teef Goblins, 2x Urguck, 3x Squig Herders, 3x Followers of Mork, 3x Black Orc Squad, 3x Boar Boyz, 3x Lobber Crew, 2x Grimgor Ironhide, 2x Servants of Khorne, 3x Festering Nurglings, 2x Chaos Knights, 2x Vile Sorceress.

Quest 1 : 1x Smash 'em All!

Supports 13 : 3x Warpstone Excavation, 2x Contested Village, 3x Armoury, 2x Choppa, 2x Cloud of Flies, 1x Horrific Mutation.

Tactics 6 : 3x We'z bigga!, 2x Waaagh!, 1x Flames of Tzeentch

I tend to develop my Kingdom, then my Quest, and last my Battlefield. So, I guess my deck can't be considered a rush one, but it definately has strong elements of control (Urguck + Cloud of Flies being my lovely combo ).

The maximum was tested and it is there for a reason. Finding out why is part of the fun.