Say I'm in short range, I make my light saber combat check and force die check and both succeed, I swoop in to engaged and make my attack, it is successful also. So far on my turn I haven't made an actual move action, can I then move back out of engaged from my opponent? Another guy and I are saying yes just because of the mechanics, since Hawk Bat Swoop isn't listed as a move but a combat action then I still have a move left on in my turn. Thoughts?

Hawk Bat Swoop is an action, so I don't see why you couldn't spend your maneuvers to disengage.

That's totally in the purview of Ataru as well. It's supposed to be the most acrobatic of forms. So swoop my friend, swoop your silly little heart out.

Mechanically, there's nothing stopping you from using that tactic. And not only does it fit in with Ataru's mindset of constantly being in motion, but if your opponent is generally unable to use their free maneuver, it can force them to burn strain so that they can try to re-engage with you each round if they're also using a melee weapon.

Of course, depending on how the GM and player read the talent, you may not need to disengage in order to use Hawk-Bat Swoop each round, as there's some grounds to say that the target has to be within short range, not specially at short range. Again, up to the player and GM to decide how they want to go with the interpretation of the talent.

Then again, we do see Yoda doing all sorts of crazy spins and leaps when dueling with Sidious in RotS, so it's possible that he was engaged with Palps the entire time and was spamming Hawk-Bat Swoop (while using his maneuver for Saber Swarm) like there was no tomorrow.

Mechanically, there's nothing stopping you from using that tactic. And not only does it fit in with Ataru's mindset of constantly being in motion, but if your opponent is generally unable to use their free maneuver, it can force them to burn strain so that they can try to re-engage with you each round if they're also using a melee weapon.

Of course, depending on how the GM and player read the talent, you may not need to disengage in order to use Hawk-Bat Swoop each round, as there's some grounds to say that the target has to be within short range, not specially at short range. Again, up to the player and GM to decide how they want to go with the interpretation of the talent.

Then again, we do see Yoda doing all sorts of crazy spins and leaps when dueling with Sidious in RotS, so it's possible that he was engaged with Palps the entire time and was spamming Hawk-Bat Swoop (while using his maneuver for Saber Swarm) like there was no tomorrow.

That's a really good point. I can't decipher what RAW would say on that.. but it's something I will have mull over for my table.

That's a really good point. I can't decipher what RAW would say on that.. but it's something I will have mull over for my table.

We were debating a similar ability (Niman's: Draw Closer) not long ago. The text for both Hawk Bat Swoop and Draw Closer do seem to permit their use even when Engaged. I was one who decided to restrict their use a bit. Simply put, they cost nothing to activate, and provide bonuses that aren't matched by any non-force user talents. Both can, IMHO, be damaging to a games balance.

The real synergy comes with using force leap as a maneuver or the Sage/Seer's Pre-Emptive Avoidance to do it when you don't even have an available maneuver.

That's a really good point. I can't decipher what RAW would say on that.. but it's something I will have mull over for my table.

We were debating a similar ability (Niman's: Draw Closer) not long ago. The text for both Hawk Bat Swoop and Draw Closer do seem to permit their use even when Engaged. I was one who decided to restrict their use a bit. Simply put, they cost nothing to activate, and provide bonuses that aren't matched by any non-force user talents. Both can, IMHO, be damaging to a games balance.

Perhaps as a middle-ground concession, allow Draw Closer and Hawk-Bat Swoop to be used while Engaged, but still require the initial Force Point be spent to trigger the talent, with any extra FPs spent on the other effects?

Thanks for all the input everyone, we haven't brought the GM in on this yet just a conversation between another player and I who have GM'd this game before. Whenever there is a rule question we usually all three come up with something together and make the rule stick so whoever is running the game it is fluid.

That's a really good point. I can't decipher what RAW would say on that.. but it's something I will have mull over for my table.

We were debating a similar ability (Niman's: Draw Closer) not long ago. The text for both Hawk Bat Swoop and Draw Closer do seem to permit their use even when Engaged. I was one who decided to restrict their use a bit. Simply put, they cost nothing to activate, and provide bonuses that aren't matched by any non-force user talents. Both can, IMHO, be damaging to a games balance.

Perhaps as a middle-ground concession, allow Draw Closer and Hawk-Bat Swoop to be used while Engaged, but still require the initial Force Point be spent to trigger the talent, with any extra FPs spent on the other effects?

Which would be for the force leap or move being used to put your opponent off balance.