I'm the only one who likes the Syck Sniper aren't I?

Give it time. 17 point Tractor Beams, scum learns control.

i must say, if its true, im quite impressed. but still not scared.

I think some of you are being extremely generous on what is considered a "fix".

Also, fans like to pretend to be designers. So there will always be these kind of dream design threads.

It is also the nature of a community to come up with phrases, words, or TLA's that mean something different than they do elsewhere.

So when I see someone say that ship X needs a fix, I take that to mean that the ship needs an upgrade because it underperforms, not because it's broken and useless.

The Tie Advanced is perhaps the only ship that was truly broken in that way, the A-Wing, TI, TD, X-Wing, ect... All were 'fixed' but that simply means they got rebalanced.

Rare?

Yes, rare. Everything on your list other than the TIE Phantom (which involved a complete change in the timing of the cloaking mechanic) was little more than a fresh upgrade or gameplay tweak, as outlined in the initial post of the topic. The only true outright fixes FFG have delivered have been the TIE Phantom uncloaking change, the large ship MOV change and probably the TIE Advanced title (which made the single biggest value adjustment in the game so far) - everything else has simply been an ongoing adjustment over time.

Take Autothrusters, for example - you cite them as "fixing" TIE Interceptors, but they're just as useful on StarVipers, Aggressors, A-wings... they're not an "Interceptor Fix", they're just another situational upgrade option available to players in the game.

FTS Gecko, you've just belittled Blail Berg's comment and then insulted his intelligence by suggesting he doesn't understand.

No, I highlighted his hysterically over the top response as an example of the negative attitude I was referring to in the initial post. As in "so-and-so-ship is broken (in Blail Berg's post, it looks like over half the actual roster), useless at the moment, not worth taking, in need of a fix".

If I'd wanted to belittle him I would have said "If you think every other ship in the game is or has been broken or not worth taking, then maybe it's not the game that's at fault, maybe it's you".

What positive contribution do you hope to achieve from this thread?

I'll direct you back to the initial post. Read the last paragraph this time. Hopefully if we can get people off the pointless, unhelpful "X IS BROKEN PLZ FIX" bandwagon, we can have more actually useful, helpful in depth discussions of how to effectively use the ships in the game as they currently exist, what to run them with and how to get the best out of them.

Because there's plenty of people out there who actually get good results with every single ship in the game, regardless of how they're perceived in general.

Mmm I am still eager to see where stuff goes regardless, it is cool that deficiencies in ships are being addressed... IE the recent defender and bomber tweaks. Stuff like that has me excited, cause I know changes are coming for certain ships, just time will tell just what happens. Brainstorming is all well and good I just kinda think we need a game suggestions subforum.

I'm still pretty new to this game, but it seems like when a ship is over-costed or has some other 'problem', the difference is really only one good die roll away from being negated. I grant that any edge is still, by definition, an edge, but compared to other minis games I have played the difference between a 'good' ship and a 'bad' ship is surprisingly minimal.

I think that skill, luck and build (and of course whether you actually brought your A game that day) all have a role to play in the outcome, but it seems like skill is most important factor.

Well I quite happily agree.

It seems like those sorts of threads attract fruit flies and every time I've ventured into one to read it and cast my vote it's been a quagmire.

The real strange thing though? Every time I play X-Wing I enjoy it immensely and whenever I use the "broken" ships I do just fine. So I kinda wonder if all this "fixing" is really that? Maybe it's more like updating, because it seems to me that's exactly what it is. BTL-A4 didn't "fix" my Y-Wing, it just gave me another option. I still run it naked with just an ICT sometimes, and you know what? That works fine.

I say **** the Fix, up with the Update. Get over it and play some **** X-Wing!

FTS Gecko has a point: people see that FFG is slowly and carefully fixing things their design team things need fixing. But most people aren't game designers, and the easiest conclusions for them to jump to are (1) that thing I don't like needs to be nerfed, and (2) that thing I do like needs to be buffed.

The forum is a place for opinions exchange, that is it's primary purpose.

It helps, however, if people think about their opinions and make sure they're based on facts.

Absolutely! Every player who is serious about this game should consider the word "fix" to be a four-letter word.

Serious players also shouldn't use title cards or upgrades that where released after the original release of a ship (because "fixes" are obviously for losers) ... no Chardan Refit, no A-Wing Test Pilot card, no BTL-A4 Y-Wing title, no Bomb Loadout upgrade for Y-Wings, no Integrated Astromech for X-Wings, no B-Wing/E2 mod for the B-Wings, no Twin Ion Engine Mk. II card for TIEs, no TIE/x1 title or Advanced Targeting Computer for TIE Advanced, and when the new Imperial Veterans expansion arrives you know all the serious players are going to throw away the TIE Shuttle cards for the TIE Bombers and burn those new TIE/x7 and TIE/D title cards for the TIE Defender.

No real X-Wing player needs or even wants any of those cards because every ship that is added to this game was perfect on arrival.

Also, all of the best players are still running Phantoms with the original rules in underground tournaments ... because perfection doesn't need a "fix."

I'm reminded of the song "Everything Is Awesome" from the LEGO Movie.

(My apologies to anyone who didn't pick up on my sarcasm here.)

No real X-Wing player needs or even wants any of those cards because every ship that is added to this game was perfect on arrival.

I get the sarcasm but I don't think it's appropriate here. I don't think anyone is saying that everything was released with perfect balance, and most people aren't saying these ships are completely unplayable.

There is nothing wrong with discussing ships that need a boost, or ones that need a nerf. There is also nothing wrong with pointing out why that person may be wrong in that opinion.

The IMO real problem is when anyone tries to shut down discussion because they don't like what is being discussed. Something that very much goes both ways.

No real X-Wing player needs or even wants any of those cards because every ship that is added to this game was perfect on arrival.

I get the sarcasm but I don't think it's appropriate here. I don't think anyone is saying that everything was released with perfect balance, and most people aren't saying these ships are completely unplayable.

There is nothing wrong with discussing ships that need a boost, or ones that need a nerf. There is also nothing wrong with pointing out why that person may be wrong in that opinion.

The IMO real problem is when anyone tries to shut down discussion because they don't like what is being discussed. Something that very much goes both ways.

I'm not trying to shut down this discussion at all. In fact, there are plenty of times that I personally think certain fixes are unnecessary or that someone's suggested fix is way OP ... and I suspect other people have probably thought those same things about fixes that I've suggested. I don't think that discussing "fixes" (or the belief that fixes are unnecessary) is something that should be prohibited (in the way that using real four-letter words are prohibited in these forums).

I absolutely agree that open discussion is the best thing in community forums like this.

Please don't think that I'm suggesting that others have no right to their opinions ... even if my sarcasm about the idea that fixes are bad or unnecessary makes a good point.

The game is extremely well balanced, and has become much more so in the last year.

Therefore the spectrum of ships - from uber to naff - has become narrower and narrower.

Those begging for certain fixes are using the same terminology as we would in an unbalanced game, in what is in fact a well-balanced game.

= cries of 'fix X' do seem a bit hyperbolic, I agree.

Just mentally replace "fix" with "rebalance".

No real X-Wing player needs or even wants any of those cards because every ship that is added to this game was perfect on arrival.

I get the sarcasm but I don't think it's appropriate here. I don't think anyone is saying that everything was released with perfect balance, and most people aren't saying these ships are completely unplayable.

There is nothing wrong with discussing ships that need a boost,

Many ships do.

For some

is the only boost they need to get happy

I'm out of likes, but i appreciate the literalness.

I'm not trying to shut down this discussion at all.

Sorry if you took it that way, I wasn't aiming that at you really, just a general statement. I see it happen both ways far too often.

Someone will post a 'Fix for the X-Wing' and you'll get people trying to shut down the discussion with "X-Wing doesn't need to be fixed!!!" with no details why they have that opinion.

Honestly, we're seeing ill-conceived and badly considered threads pop up suggesting (or demanding) fixes every single day, and all it's doing in the majority of cases is causing aggravation.

"Fix" implies something is "Broken", which is very rarely the case in this game. Sure, certain ships can occasionally use a tweak in functionality, a slight buff or nerf - but that's an ongoing process, and we we see upgrades which improve or reduce the effectiveness of various ships appear with every release.

So before you storm onto the forum and post a thread claiming that such-and-such ship needs a "fix", ask yourself: would it not be better to ask the forum how many people use the ship, how they run it, what their perceptions of it are, what builds they have success with and what it's best/worst match ups are?

You might get more mileage out of your topic that way.

The game is dividing its player base into people who want to have a fun game and people who want to beat people at tournaments.

Codex creep is infecting game design.

You may disagree if you like.

Soontir Fel, TLT, Sressbot - things that are so good they are no brainers in competitive play

the soon-to-be-released "Green K-Turn Punishing One"& TIE Defenders (a fix, may I point out?)- things that are going to again change the game and require any competitive list to prepare for them

The game is releasing and expanding too fast, and people have a right to express their opinion.

Next time before you go to a forum to berate a certain type of person, don't.

The game is releasing and expanding too fast, and people have a right to express their opinion.

You honestly don't see the contradiction inherent in that? You're trying to tell someone they can't post their opinion after all.

Also most of your points have absolutely nothing to do with the point FTS Gecko was making. But kudos for the passive aggressive way you separate people having fun from those who play at tournaments.

I would argue that the Defender titles are not "auto includes". Probably for the top tier squads, sure. But, I am still going to break out HLC Rexlar, Mangler Maarek, and a few others with HLC on occasion.

The game is more than the tier 1 squads. And there are very, very upgrades that you include with no argument for not using it.

I'm the only one who likes the Syck Sniper aren't I?

No, you're not. *highfive*

I'm the only one who likes the Syck Sniper aren't I?

No, you're not. *highfive*

Yeah, I'm on board with Tractor Beam Scyks.

I'm the only one who likes the Syck Sniper aren't I?

No, you're not. *highfive*

I've run them and find them at least semi-effective as a sniper.

I've run them and find them at least semi-effective as a sniper.

Yep. Ideally, what you want are lots of tempting, threatening-in-their-own-right targets ahead of them that your opponent has to deal with first. A single HLC Scyk can easily be overlooked... until it starts shooting.

The game is releasing and expanding too fast, and people have a right to express their opinion.

You honestly don't see the contradiction inherent in that? You're trying to tell someone they can't post their opinion after all.

Also most of your points have absolutely nothing to do with the point FTS Gecko was making. But kudos for the passive aggressive way you separate people having fun from those who play at tournaments.

YW

Tournament players are bad people (that's sarcasm!)

Tournament players break games by definition.