So I haven't played my Falcon for a while, mostly due to the TLT threat. But I figure it's time I dug it out again - it's my favourite ship both thematically and in game so why not. I've also been wanting to try out Red Ace since I picked up the T-70 expansion a couple of weeks ago but not had the chance to put him on the table. Do you think he would be a viable wingman in a two ship list? Or is Poe simply that much better for the same kinda cost? I was thinking something like this:

100 points

“Red Ace” [R2-D2, Flechette Torpedoes, Comm Relay, Autothrusters] (40)

Chewbacca [Predator, C-3PO, Luke Skywalker, Millennium Falcon, Engine Upgrade] (60)

It's my favoured set up with the Falcon, and then a pretty standard Red Ace build. I threw the Flechettes on there just to round out the points, since an initiative bid at PS 5 and 6 isn't going to make much difference. The basic premise is to simply outlast the opponent with two tanks who can both do a reasonable amount of damage without compromising their defences. Thoughts?

Should work. Red Ace is amazingly tough for a snubfighter, and C-3PO is just annoying to kill, especially if turtled up.

I just played against a list like that, except it was Han with VI instead of Chewbacca with Predator, and no Flechettes on Red Ace. Red ace is incredibly tough, and he hits hard enough that you can't just ignore him while you try to chase down the Falcon. Seems like a good pairing.

Ain't gonna lie, that looks like an annoying list to fly against.

I'll echo the above. I normally don't think its a good idea to put an x-wing beside the falcon in a 2 ship list, but if anyone can do it, its red ace. Flechette torps is a nice touch for dealing with your 'Achilles heel' (that is, high PS arc-dodgers)

Going to try this out on Friday, hopefully. I always like to throw Flechettes in there if I have a couple of rogue points going spare. Like you say, they're nice against arc dodgers, and if you get behind someone it stops them k-turning (or equivalent) for an extra turn giving you an uncontested shot. Well, unless they're a Defender.

I wonder how come a Red Ace doesn't come with an EPT? "Red Average Pilot".

I wonder how come a Red Ace doesn't come with an EPT? "Red Average Pilot".

He doesn't need it, he's far from average.

His EPT is being a late game monster.

What do people think about taking Red Ace with R2-D6, Juke, Comm Relay, and Autothrusters?

That....that looks freaking awesome!

What do people think about taking Red Ace with R2-D6, Juke, Comm Relay, and Autothrusters?

Its fine. The only problem is you give up R2-D2. So its a tradeoff----Juke for better offense or R2-D2 for ultimately better survivability.

Juke is an interesting idea, though I'd think it'd fit better in a non-2 ship list. With only 2 ships, they need to be able to survive as long as possible really. Interesting idea, though.

And Red Ace would be too good if he had an ept slot. Imagine him with Lone Wolf?

What do people think about taking Red Ace with R2-D6, Juke, Comm Relay, and Autothrusters?

Difficult, because you will only ever get a maximum of 3 Evades from your shields, which might be wasted if you lose a shield whilst you have an evade from Comm Relay.

It's a nice combo, but it ably demonstrates just why Red Ace shouldn't have an EPT slot; it would be exceedingly powerful with one and the ability to regen shields. Even as it is it's very difficult to chop through, because it's not until the third shot each round that it won't have at least one token to modify with (except maybe the first shot in the first round, but tactical asteroid ramming can get you the first evade before combat starts if you're careful).

I faced a similar list recently and it was very strong:

Red Ace (R2-D2, Comm Relay, Shield Upgrade)

Han (VI, Gunner, C-3PO, Millenium Falcon, Engine Upgrade)

100 points

It is possible to take down Red Ace (in theory, because I couldn't) but you have to really commit and concentrate fire with 2-3 ships at least. Then you have to deal with Han for the endgame... trying to keep a boosting Falcon in arc. Generally when facing Han, you just have to take him down first, but in this case you need to still have 2-3 ships left for the endgame vs Red Ace.

I faced a similar list recently and it was very strong:

Red Ace (R2-D2, Comm Relay, Shield Upgrade)

Han (VI, Gunner, C-3PO, Millenium Falcon, Engine Upgrade)

100 points

It is possible to take down Red Ace (in theory, because I couldn't) but you have to really commit and concentrate fire with 2-3 ships at least. Then you have to deal with Han for the endgame... trying to keep a boosting Falcon in arc. Generally when facing Han, you just have to take him down first, but in this case you need to still have 2-3 ships left for the endgame vs Red Ace.

Autothrusters would be way better than shield upgrade I think - Red Ace wants defensive dice modification up the wazoo to avoid taking large spikes of damage. It's only spike damage that is really effective against it after all.

I faced a similar list recently and it was very strong:

Red Ace (R2-D2, Comm Relay, Shield Upgrade)

Han (VI, Gunner, C-3PO, Millenium Falcon, Engine Upgrade)

100 points

It is possible to take down Red Ace (in theory, because I couldn't) but you have to really commit and concentrate fire with 2-3 ships at least. Then you have to deal with Han for the endgame... trying to keep a boosting Falcon in arc. Generally when facing Han, you just have to take him down first, but in this case you need to still have 2-3 ships left for the endgame vs Red Ace.

Autothrusters would be way better than shield upgrade I think - Red Ace wants defensive dice modification up the wazoo to avoid taking large spikes of damage. It's only spike damage that is really effective against it after all.

^ for this reason i'm not really yet sold on the juke. If it didnt take the droid as well.....

As it stands once the shields are gone it's dead weight, if he gets focused that can mean the 1st round of fire.

D2 + comm relay gels, the extra shields generate extra evades all game and also allows for a possible 2 evades a turn (use 1 on the 1st round of fire, gain it back via shield loss)

And Red Ace would be too good if he had an ept slot. Imagine him with Lone Wolf?

There is always R2-D6 if you are desperate for an EPT. Whether it is worth giving up on the ability to regen shields I am not so sure.

Speaking of value, I have never been convinced by gunner Luke. 7 points is a lot to spend on an ability that only kicks in when you completely miss. With 3 red dice, that is less than a 1/4 chance of happening (less than 1/6 if you have an extra red dice at Range 1).

And Red Ace would be too good if he had an ept slot. Imagine him with Lone Wolf?

There is always R2-D6 if you are desperate for an EPT. Whether it is worth giving up on the ability to regen shields I am not so sure.

Speaking of value, I have never been convinced by gunner Luke. 7 points is a lot to spend on an ability that only kicks in when you completely miss. With 3 red dice, that is less than a 1/4 chance of happening (less than 1/6 if you have an extra red dice at Range 1).

I'd always take the regen as well, personally.

I actually find Gunner/Luke almost auto-include on the Falcon in competitive lists (and I stress the competitive). There are a lot of things out there that do a good job of negating damage through green dice/token stacking. IG-88, Soontir, etc. In these cases, without this crew, you've got no chance of punching any damage through and in a 2 ship list you need to be doing damage every turn you possibly can. Luke/Gunner puts an opponent in a difficult spot sometimes too - they either let a point of damage go through, or cancel it completely and risk the follow up.

Luke/Gunner puts an opponent in a difficult spot sometimes too - they either let a point of damage go through, or cancel it completely and risk the follow up.

Does that work? I thought that "does not hit" simply meant an attack that came up all blanks or focus. I didn't realise the extra attack applied if you hit but your opponent evaded.

Correct. You can roll 3 hits, and if you're opponent rolls 3 evades, Gunner or Luke (whichever you're using) triggers. It's not reliant on you blanking out.

Red ace can also be an effective wingman with Draw their Fire, I think. Maybe not next to Chewbacca...

If you're running Draw Their Fire you really want it on a ship that can regen to negate the crits it pulls off. In order to get DTF onto Red Ace you need R2-D6, which then means you can't regen.

If you're running Draw Their Fire you really want it on a ship that can regen to negate the crits it pulls off. In order to get DTF onto Red Ace you need R2-D6, which then means you can't regen.

That depends. R2-D2 can only regenerate one shield per round, negating one damage. Pound for pound, an evade token does the same if you're being shot at. And the nice thing is, R2-D6 can de ditched with Integrated Astromech without a second thought - you don't lose DTF.

If they're shooting at Red Ace with the Evade token, then they're not shooting the ship you're going to pull the crits off with DTF. Or they're spreading their fire around in which case they're not prioritizing correctly. There are much better places for DTF than Red Ace.

That's kind of the point of a wingman; you want them not to shoot the other target. And if they do shoot the ship you're covering, you receive an evade when you pull a crit off. So Red Ace is him/herself an unattractive target that can take the pressure of others.

The question is not if there are better card combinations; everything in this game can be done better in different situations, with different cards, etc. If you're only focused on finding 'the best', whatever that is, you'll never discover anything (apart from having very little to talk about). That is how a stale meta develops, by not looking at things that seem suboptimal at first glance.

I don't think DTF Red Ace will win championships, I do think it is worth exploring.