Yep, so palob strips his evade. Then TLT storm. He'll lose his focus pretty quick, and green dice being as they are he'll likely lose SD. Heck, what if the list has bugzappers?

Assuming you are using palpy defensively you might hold off a bit longer.

It really depends on the rest of the build, but Soontir losing his focus/evade can be huge.

The worst case scenario for Fel to get from my perspective.

is THIS list of "buy more K-wing expansionssss"

Don't want to do math this time of day, but I've seen fel shrug off 3 TLTs without using a single token or palpy.

because he had NO TOKENS, MUAHAHA, BLOCK, FILTHY IMP...ahem...sorry, good memories...

and there's just that smaaaaaal chance

that Soontir isn't alone and the 5-Hp troll-thief isn't getting to shoot at all. Not in this life at least..

Darth Vater and Soontir tend to do such things to not_that_fat ships.

In any case, not an autolose, but I bet rebel YYYY with stresshog just exceeds the capabilities any HWK provides. It's sad, but seems to be true so far as I've seen.

maybe a custom paintjob and plasticard to make it a small SR-2 Normandy will help boost HWK-s self esteem, but I don't really believe it.

It's kind of funny to see people talk about how expensive HWKs don't work, even though 40+ pt HWK were quite popular for a while.

the sound of broken records everywhere*. boo is not happy.

*well somewhere. I find it curious that some people have to use every thread they can find to bring up the same point -they- see over and over again.

and again,and again, again... (ca. 3:20)

It's kind of funny to see people talk about how expensive HWKs don't work, even though 40+ pt HWK were quite popular for a while.

That wasn't quite my beef with the expense of the HWK. Where the HWK kind of fails for me as a support ship is that you can't really start building a squad and then squeeze in a HWK to add some support because they end up being expensive enough that you need to build around them to some extent.

You almost end up spending about as you would for an ace to add most named HWKs to your list.

They don't have to be expensive. Just take the one you like the pilot ability of then stick a TLT on him. Maybe tactician crew. That's all you need.

on an unrelated note: can we -maybe- stop the "fix this and that"-threads?

a petition against, perhaps?

it's kinda annoying that people feel entitled to get a fix for -everything- .. it suggests things are in a dire state of unbalance witch is simply not the case.

you fly some things, you get it. you don't get some things? fly them more often.. if you still not get it (I do so myself with several ships), see what others do with them.

most things really do not need a fix - but practice.

We need to stop these because my to-buy list is growing way too fast

They don't have to be expensive. Just take the one you like the pilot ability of then stick a TLT on him. Maybe tactician crew. That's all you need.

That's already around 30 points. Can't really say it's cheap.

Choosing between Kavil \ smiley Rental

and such a HWK I'm afraid it's not in HWK favor.

The scum HWKs can gut you alive and make you drink your own blood.

Or they can get gut alive and left bleeding in the space dust

completely depending on your list.

a really narrow tool that CAN make your day, but can be a 30-point handicap for the list.

I mentioned the BroHawks, left the thread for a day, and then 5 extra pages have been added.

Anyways.

The BroHawks I fly currently are my 3rd variant of a list that I saw during the Denver Regionals in 2015.

BroHawks V3.0

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

I can see that happening now. (Bonus if i fit in Sabine).

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

Thats what I did for TLT spam: Stresshog, TLT Roark with Nien Nunb, 2 TLT Y-Wings. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!46:135,32:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

If you are brave the Y-Wings can also be ShockHWKs with TLT+Tactician.

I don't want to TLT spam, so there'd only be one Y and 1 HWK. Maybe 2 Bs... or B biggs. if i can afford it.

Edit: See below, I totally can.

==================
Sunrider Flight #5
==================

100 points

Pilots
------

Roark Garnet (26)
HWK-290 (19), Twin Laser Turret (6), Nien Nunb (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (26)
Y-Wing (18), BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0), R3-A2 (2), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Biggs Darklighter (26)
X-Wing (25), R2 Astromech (1)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

------

It's worth noting I intend to fly this as my Rebel list against my friends, who I KNOW love brobots and Soontir respectively.

Thanks Warpman!

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

Thats what I did for TLT spam: Stresshog, TLT Roark with Nien Nunb, 2 TLT Y-Wings. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!46:135,32:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

If you are brave the Y-Wings can also be ShockHWKs with TLT+Tactician.

Can't really say what Roark gives to the list

aside from letting stress-Y not die before shooting >_>

sad that S&V has no stresshog to make their HWK-YYY list even remotely as good

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

Thats what I did for TLT spam: Stresshog, TLT Roark with Nien Nunb, 2 TLT Y-Wings. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!46:135,32:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

If you are brave the Y-Wings can also be ShockHWKs with TLT+Tactician.

Can't really say what Roark gives to the list

aside from letting stress-Y not die before shooting >_>

sad that S&V has no stresshog to make their HWK-YYY list even remotely as good

It's not as if they don't have brilliant pilots or anything...

Roark means someone fires before soontir. Always. Doesn't need to be the hog.

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

Thats what I did for TLT spam: Stresshog, TLT Roark with Nien Nunb, 2 TLT Y-Wings. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!46:135,32:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

If you are brave the Y-Wings can also be ShockHWKs with TLT+Tactician.

Can't really say what Roark gives to the list

aside from letting stress-Y not die before shooting >_>

sad that S&V has no stresshog to make their HWK-YYY list even remotely as good

It's not as if they don't have brilliant pilots or anything...

Roark means someone fires before soontir. Always. Doesn't need to be the hog.

By far it is mostly useful only in situations when both are at brink of destruction, and this shot is the decisive one.

Doesn't happen too often for me, though.

S&V HWK says EVERYBODY shoots before soontir. I think it's more fun.

buuuut we don't get anything like stress-Y so soontir is a much greater problem.

You get palob stripping tokens, you get flachette cannons on those sycks you love so much. Or you can flachette torp for the auto. There_Are_Ways. Everyone else sees this except for you, conclusion being that by process of elimination, you are blind.

I don't even get it, you just acknowledged and pointed out that The Scum HWK reducing a pilot to 0 is better than Rebels increasing one pilot to 12.

Nevermind, you can use feedback array. If you are fighting SD Soontir you can literally just bugzap him to death. He'll have to take risks to keep you in arc, thereby making him more predictable.

Hell, if you do it right, yeah use the guy that reduces him to 0 You can bugzap him to death before he fires!

You get palob stripping tokens, you get flachette cannons on those sycks you love so much. Or you can flachette torp for the auto. There_Are_Ways. Everyone else sees this except for you, conclusion being that by process of elimination, you are blind.

I don't even get it, you just acknowledged and pointed out that The Scum HWK reducing a pilot to 0 is better than Rebels increasing one pilot to 12.

palob is fun (and has EPT)

syks with flechettes? Sorry, but it's nor arithmetic, multiplying negative value by negative value doesn't give you positive results

I'd put manglers at least...

There are ways, that's sure, but none are as persistent, easy to use and aren't working the same way (Who the hell thought putting ban on stacking to flechette?! why make it require hitting?

Jesus, FFG, y u no love anything about scyks?)

It's better in this situation, but overally the least gets weaker against aces.

But the main thing about using HWKs I see from the thread is

1. HWK needs it's TLT to not be dead weight

2. it will die

3. it needs a squad with similar roles, soemthing Ys provide plenty

4. I have an urge to convert mine HWKs to SR-1 and SR-2 Normandies...

I do need to get a Normandy for my desk... thanks for that reminder.

1. TLT definitely helps. Ion could be useful though, don't discount it.

2. You will notice I included biggs on mine. There was a reason for this. the enemies HWK is always my primary target, and not because it sucks. Anyway, so defend it, keep it at R3, or do other stuff. You do have some aggressive pilots and crew, I rather like 4lom for the HWK. - i'll admit they are not Nien Numb.

3. It really doesn't. It's a support ship, it supports ships in other roles.

4. The Normandy does kick ass.

I get it that Scum doesn't have the stressbot.

Imperials don't get it either, and both of us lost our possible double/triple tacticians. (In light of stressbot maybe that nerf can be un-nerfed now?)

I want to do a list with roark AND the stresshog.

Thats what I did for TLT spam: Stresshog, TLT Roark with Nien Nunb, 2 TLT Y-Wings. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!46:135,32:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,69:21:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;9:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

If you are brave the Y-Wings can also be ShockHWKs with TLT+Tactician.

Can't really say what Roark gives to the list

aside from letting stress-Y not die before shooting >_>

sad that S&V has no stresshog to make their HWK-YYY list even remotely as good

People around me remember that Phantoms exist and are in fact quite good. Even a Phantom has a hard time avoiding the range 3 Hog, so with Roark thats a dead Phantom pretty much immediatly. Other than that it is just additional shots for ships that are at risk of not surviving until its their turn.

1. the real Ion lover I've seen so far is Rental. Our Pirate Queen Lady of Doom can push that ion up ANY ARSE there is, and if Soontir has no autothruster and\or Evade token he will take that ion

2. The only protection we might have utilized is bodyguard, and the only real buddyguard isn't out yet (looks at PS3 EPT-using cheap generic Jumpmaster)

3. With no similarities you provide your enemy with clear understanding of target priority. If everything is a TLT platform he'll more likely start chacing the fat geese

4. I've had a plan on making a Huge S&V Normandy. Even made all the rules and all the crew...
But plan crashed when I found out the models were all either too small or TOO LARGE. SR2 should be roughly the size of CR90.

Roark thats a dead Phantom pretty much immediatly.

Roark and Torkil are direct Phantom counter-matchups, yes, but due to limited ability (except phantom it's not that important to shoot first.

Only adv sensor phantom really NEEDS TO SHOOT FIRST

Their only problem was a lack of decent turrets that's been fixed for a while now.

Roark thats a dead Phantom pretty much immediatly.

Roark and Torkil are direct Phantom counter-matchups, yes, but due to limited ability (except phantom it's not that important to shoot first.

Only adv sensor phantom really NEEDS TO SHOOT FIRST

Stress before recloak doesn't hurt it? Especially with 3 TLT incoming I would seriously doubt that.

Roark and Torkil counter some ships incredibly hard (Roark more so) and still are usefull in all other matchups (Torkil more so).

1. the real Ion lover I've seen so far is Rental. Our Pirate Queen Lady of Doom can push that ion up ANY ARSE there is, and if Soontir has no autothruster and\or Evade token he will take that ion

2. The only protection we might have utilized is bodyguard, and the only real buddyguard isn't out yet (looks at PS3 EPT-using cheap generic Jumpmaster)

3. With no similarities you provide your enemy with clear understanding of target priority. If everything is a TLT platform he'll more likely start chacing the fat geese

4. I've had a plan on making a Huge S&V Normandy. Even made all the rules and all the crew...

But plan crashed when I found out the models were all either too small or TOO LARGE. SR2 should be roughly the size of CR90.

Roark thats a dead Phantom pretty much immediatly.

Roark and Torkil are direct Phantom counter-matchups, yes, but due to limited ability (except phantom it's not that important to shoot first.

Only adv sensor phantom really NEEDS TO SHOOT FIRST

1 Yes, but so many ships can take ion... don't discount the HWK here.

2. Eh, he will be. I'll grant he's no biggs.

3. Biggs. "Yes, I can see you want to shoot at the HWK", but you can't. Aside from that, in my case Nien means my HWK can move a bit more. Also, knowing that your enemy wants to shoot the HWK probably means you know where he'll be. Which mitigates his abiltiy to arc dodge.

4. True enough. I saw a sweet model of the normandy at my FLGS. I probably need to get it. I love mass effect even more than Halo. I blame Halo 4 and 5 for this.