Tonight I played an opponent, and he used cluster mines. By the way they were worded hee seem to think that the ship followed the guides and you see how many you hit, whilst I said you only used the manoeuvre piece and the start/finish position.

TO ruled in my oppoents favour and I took 6 red dice.

Another player has cluster mines so I want the right call to be made, how can I prove this or was the right call made?

I'm not sure what you mean by "followed the guides" and "manoeuvre piece and the start/finish position" but if your template or ship base overlaps all three tokens then all three detonate and you take 6 red dice.

You only use the ships base at the start and end of a maneuver. During the maneuver only the Template counts for asteroids, debris fields, mines (proxy / cluster), connor nets, etc.

Your opponent and the TO were incorrect. The ship only exists at the beginning and end of the guide. The guide is just the guide.

For future reference, there is also a rules questions subforum up top.

Your asking if, when you place the maneuver template down, it doesn't overlap a mine token, but comes so close that the ship's base, if it were placed on the table in the middle of the template instead of at the end WOULD have overlapped the mine, if the mine detonates?

The answer is no. When determining if you overlap something, only the actual width of the template and the final position of the ship's base matter. The ship does not, virtually, "travel along" the template to get to its final position.

This is a very common misunderstanding because, obviously, the flavor of the game is that the ship is traveling along the template, but the actual rules are that you pick up the ship and then put it down at the end of the template, and that is all. Only if it has to back up because of a ship in the way does it do anything remotely like "traveling along the template" and even then, not really.

To further clarify, if your maneuver template (for sake of argument a 5-straight) overlaps all three tokens, even if your ship base never actually touches one, you still set off all the cluster mines, taking six red dice.

Your opponent and the TO were incorrect. The ship only exists at the beginning and end of the guide. The guide is just the guide.

For future reference, there is also a rules questions subforum up top.

Pretty sure it is in the FAQ, but I don't have that handy to check.

if this is how your TO plays then you have some big issues in your area, i mean mines aren't a new thing, they've been out since wave 2

Your opponent and the TO were incorrect. The ship only exists at the beginning and end of the guide. The guide is just the guide.

For future reference, there is also a rules questions subforum up top.

Where might I quote this to my TO? I know the rule but obviously my TO will not accept it

FAQ page 15 under "Movement" questions. Your TO should probably do a little homework before the next event.

Check Maneuver in the RRG it says that when a ship executes a maneuver, "The full width of the ship's base is ignored except in its starting and final positions."

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Going by the evidence of a friend of mine at a recent tournament, "average" for the Cluster Mines means doing no damage to opposing ships but rolling full damage on yours.

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Yeah Cluster Mines needs an errata, not for the overlap thing that is still fine and I don't know how the TO came to that ruling, but for the damage output in detonation. Cluster mine dice are weaker than pre-buff Huge ship dice.

DR4CO, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:52 PM, said:

ObiWonka, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:47 PM, said:

EarthwormBen, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:41 PM, said:

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Going by the evidence of a friend of mine at a recent tournament, "average" for the Cluster Mines means doing no damage to opposing ships but rolling full damage on yours.

This is accurate for my experiences with them, yes.

Decided to try a "Fill the board" idea, and took proximity mines + cluster mines + Extra munitions on two punishers against my friend who is still learning to maneuver well. Figured it would be a good way to train. 3 proximity mines and 7 cluster mines later...he had taken a single damage, when suddenly, one of my punishers clips a cluster mine...for 2 crits...

DR4CO, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:52 PM, said:

ObiWonka, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:47 PM, said:

EarthwormBen, on 18 Jan 2016 - 9:41 PM, said:

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Going by the evidence of a friend of mine at a recent tournament, "average" for the Cluster Mines means doing no damage to opposing ships but rolling full damage on yours.

This is accurate for my experiences with them, yes.

Decided to try a "Fill the board" idea, and took proximity mines + cluster mines + Extra munitions on two punishers against my friend who is still learning to maneuver well. Figured it would be a good way to train. 3 proximity mines and 7 cluster mines later...he had taken a single damage, when suddenly, one of my punishers clips a cluster mine...for 2 crits...

Then you're fine. Crits don't do anything with Cluster Mines. Only Proximities.

case in point:

Conner Net or bust.

Deathrain is a tricky devil with Conner Nets and Seismic Charges.

Seismic Charges probably average more damage than Cluster Mines. They're cheaper, and can be dropped while stressed.

i've given up on Cluster mines, i'll take the occasional Proximity mine but for 4 points never gonna touch a Cluster, i'll take a Conner net anytime

Thank you, I'm just glad that that 3 cluster mines did nothing.

So, about average for Cluster Mines, then.

Going by the evidence of a friend of mine at a recent tournament, "average" for the Cluster Mines means doing no damage to opposing ships but rolling full damage on yours.

Yeah..... that ****** that just kept regen-ing his shields back probably pissed him off too

The only problem with Conner Net, they come in Rebel expansions.

Loyal sons of the Empire have to buy a K-wing or two if they want to outfit their Bombers and Punishers. And we've got nothing to put the TLTs on.

The only problem with Conner Net, they come in Rebel expansions.

Loyal sons of the Empire have to buy a K-wing or two if they want to outfit their Bombers and Punishers. And we've got nothing to put the TLTs on.

You'll want to get hold of one at some point, so your TIE/D Defenders can pull someone on top of it with their Tractor Beams

Clusters are good versus Big Ships, or to break up a swarm. I still think you should have been able to suffer criticals from hits too, instead of normal hits. That would have made it better for sure.

I flew in front of a swam with my Redline and dropped one in a straight line, Howl runners template overlapped 2 of the mines and she overlapped the 3rd, so 6 dice and 3 hits killed her.

Remember this is not the norm, but was fun!

The only problem with Conner Net, they come in Rebel expansions.

Loyal sons of the Empire have to buy a K-wing or two if they want to outfit their Bombers and Punishers. And we've got nothing to put the TLTs on.

You'll want to get hold of one at some point, so your TIE/D Defenders can pull someone on top of it with their Tractor Beams

Oh, yes I've bought one. Deathrain demanded it.

And what Deathrain wants, Deathrain gets.

Last night Deathrain wanted a dead Poe Dameron. He got that too.

Last night Deathrain wanted a dead Poe Dameron.

Don't we all?