Just how "nice" should you be, before its considered excessive?

In a recent tournament I attended in a single match I reminded my opponent he hasn't shot with one of his fighters before we ended the turn, about one of his pilot abilities, about autothrusters, about not having to spend the target lock on homing missiles, & at least two other things.

At what point do you let them learn the hard way, & take responsibility for learning the game & paying attention. This isn't casual play, its a tournament.

I'm a nice guy but theres a limit.

It's a tournament.

It's his mistake and he should learn about it.

At the end of the turn you may politely remind him about the abilities he has forgotten to use.

Or not. Completely depends on your mood.

But tournaments are meant to be harsh. Started shooting with PS1? no PS3 shots for you, lad.

The answer is completely up to you.

I feel like it depends on the level of the tournament.

Casual - It's expected to be a very friendly environment, and people may look down upon anything else. That said, do as you please.

Competitive - Once or twice is kind of expected. Maybe the first time a mistake is made. There's nothing that says you ever have to be nice and help them out in competitive. It is expected to be pleasant however. That said, do as you please.

Premier - I'd personally bring my A-game, take advantage of every mistake they make and expect them take advantage of every mistake I make. It is premier after all. That said, do as you please.

In the end, I believe you should go with what you believe to be the right amount of correction, whether it's many times or never. As long as you approach it with a pleasant attitude you're fine.

TL;DR Correct as many or as few times as you please. Don't be a jerk.

Ah, the sportsmanship discussion. Has it been two weeks already?

Who wants some popcorn?

As nice as you want to be, and to a point, how nice you want to be treated.

If you're ok with no one reminding you when you miss something, then don't remind them yourself. If you believe people should remind the other player of missed opportunities like that then you should do it yourself.

A lot of people have a 3 strikes or even a 1 strike rule. They'll remind people of something once, and after that it's up to them.

That all said, not doing it doesn't mean you're not a nice player, or a poor sportsman, it just means you don't feel that it's up to you to help the other guy.

It really depends to me on how new this person is to the game. While I don't think I'll ever be that guy who stops someone from being like oh i meant to focus this guy when he's moving a swarm in formation together I Won't let someone who's experienced but clearly forgotten to take his action to go back and take one a few minutes later. This is different though when I am playing someone new. If they forget something I'll prompt them. I don't want them to have a bad experience just because their still learning the game. Often by the end of a game with a newer player they will need much less prompting and will have had a much better experience.

But tournaments are meant to be harsh.

No they really aren't, they're meant to be fun but also competitive. You can do both, and not have to be harsh...

Don't be a jerk.

This is the most important thing to remember.

It really depends to me on how new this person is to the game.

That all depends... A new player who enters a Store Championship should not IMO expect to have their hand held, or get any special treatment. Store Champs are ranked as competitive events and understanding of the rules is part of what's expected.

Frankly a Store Championship is not the proper venue for learning the game.

Generally I'll always try to point out something forgotten, unless there's even a slim chance that it could've been ignored on purpose.

Why? I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to see how good I am against you at your best. I don't really care how good I am against you when you're hung over and forgetful!

At least one of the things you mentioned, the Homing Missles, is something you are obligated to point out. You can't knowingly allow your opponent to make an illegal play, which discarding the target lock with no reason to would be.

Also, players should be narrating the turn in regards to what ships are up on maneuvers and attacks. It helps ensure that nothing is missed and helps move the game along at a better pace.

As to your opponents optional abilities, do what you want but be consistent. If your opponents inattentivness towards thier abilities is placing an undue burden on you, just say so and let them know this will be the last reminder.

It's a tournament.

It's his mistake and he should learn about it.

At the end of the turn you may politely remind him about the abilities he has forgotten to use.

Or not. Completely depends on your mood.

But tournaments are meant to be harsh. Started shooting with PS1? no PS3 shots for you, lad.

Nah, that's a 40K attitude. You should probably sell me your ships and go pickup a Necron Army...

Just because it's a tournament doesn't give you license to be a WAAC sleeze.

It is entirely up to you.

You don't have to remind your opponent to use his abilities: you already have to think about yours, so your opponent should not expect you to remind him of his. You are responsible for your team and yours alone. I don't expect my opponent to remind me of mine either.

That being said, since I'm the one introducing the game to many players around here and the rule lawyer, I tend to remind my opponents when they forget about an ability and I catch it. I don't have to, but I do it anyway.

I'm happy to be nice and remind my opponent about every possible thing they forget. I need to be able to beat opponents not making those mistakes, so it does me no good to win with them. Also, lets be honest; if I'm playing half your turn for you, I'd better be able to win.

I try to always be nice, polite and to promote a fun experience without rushing my opponent during tournaments. I also do my best to make sure that mandatory game effects, coming either from my fleet or that of my opponent, are played correctly.

Optional effects, good strategies or a proper analysis of the situatino, however, are another story. I'm not going to remind my opponent that now would be a good time to use Corran's ability (but I won't rush him through the steps either), that it would be to his advantage to switch target locks using fire control systems or that using his target lock on a 2 dice attack against my IG at range 3 which has an autothruster + focus is a waste.

After the game, I'll gladly give him some pointers to help him learn, but not during.

I'm playing to see how good I am against you at your best.

But if you're reminding them of things you're not playing them at their best, you're playing them at their best plus outside help.

Keeping track of your options and using them at the correct time as much a skill as picking your maneuver is.

It really depends to me on how new this person is to the game.

That all depends... A new player who enters a Store Championship should not IMO expect to have their hand held, or get any special treatment. Store Champs are ranked as competitive events and understanding of the rules is part of what's expected.

Frankly a Store Championship is not the proper venue for learning the game.

Most of our tournaments take the place of the store's weekly x-wing night so a player that shows up will be encouraged to play.

Store Championships are different but barely. If a new player wants to play x-wing on the day of the championship but there's no space unless he's in the tournament should that player go home? Should you treat him any worse than you would normally because he paid 10 bucks to play with space ships and continue learning the game? I wouldn't. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

The real question is, do you want to win because your opponent forgot something, or because you played better.

You're the only person who will know and if you're fine with it then leave it unmentioned, personally I'd tell them. It puts any victory in question if there's an "if only I'd....."

Rikk

If they're a new player, I'll help em out.
If they've been playing a while and don't remind me of when I forget something stupidly, I don't return the favor.

I do, however, get annoyed by those backseat gamers who remind the opponent of their stuff. That's not okay.

I'm playing to see how good I am against you at your best.

But if you're reminding them of things you're not playing them at their best, you're playing them at their best plus outside help.Keeping track of your options and using them at the correct time as much a skill as picking your maneuver is.

I guess the better way to put it is that I want whatever is in front of me to perform together as well as they can - both the player and their list. So if a ship I'm shooting at should've been destroyed, but my opponent has forgotten about Autothrusters, then I'd rather go with the ship surviving. Then at least their list is performing as I expect it to.

It always cracks me up how some people treat X-Wing tournamets like they're the goddamn Kumite.

Should you treat him any worse than you would normally because he paid 10 bucks to play with space ships and continue learning the game?

I love it when people make assumptions like that. Who ever said anything about treating him worse? They just shouldn't expect special treatment. The store championship does have more riding on it then just bragging rights after all.

It puts any victory in question if there's an "if only I'd....."

Every victory is likely to have one of those. Winning is most often caused by being the person who made the fewest mistakes.

as the rest: entirely up to you.

it is a tournament, one should expect people to play to their best - which includes NOT reminding you of things YOU have forgotten.

that being out of the way and while I do fully accept the cutthroat-style some people bring to the table:

-usually, I keep things relaxed with guys I know and like; IMO it's part of the game-experience to have a good time, and keep minor things (forgetting is no mistake IMO, it's forgetting) out of the way for an all around better game for us both.

-I do the same with beginners (even more so) and generally with people I do not know yet.

-OTOH, people that generally try their best to be an a.ss, and not just on the table, or people who are KNOWN and proven to be cheats etc.. I won't remind them. I won't play them either, if I don't "have to". but that is for another thread entirely.

In terms of how you act and portray yourself at the table, very nice.

In terms of your list building? Whatever you like. Don't NOT take something just because you think people will hate it. Fly whatever you want.

In terms of letting them take back stuff or do things after the fact? It's up to you. I say that you shouldn't, as a tourney should be treated as if the players know what they are doing. If you make a mistake, it's on you. I've made loads at events and not asked to have things changed or taken back. I just learn from it.

I'm going to make one last comment then ignore this thread as best I can...

If you want to remind people of something they missed feel free. However do not expect that in return, some of us prefer to play to the best of our ability and find being helped robs us of that.

I'd often rather lose based on how well I played then win because someone reminded me of something I forgot. I don't believe my PoV is somehow 'morally or ethically superior' to someone else's. I just don't want help and so I'm less likely to offer it to someone else.

So it's really very much a matter of the golden rule. Treat others like you'd like to be treated.

The final note is don't be a jerk, and that includes not thinking that someone who doesn't offer you help is a poor sport or being a jerk. They're not required to do, they're not even expected to do so. Not doing so does not make you a WAAC jerk either. In fact if you expect that kind of help and get upset when it's not offered, that means it's quite likely you're the one guilty of being a poor sport.

It's not your job to play for him but if you notice something that he missed and it would benefit you if he failed to do it I think you should point it out.

Also mandatory effects must be obeyed whether they notice or not or your cheating.