It doesn't seem really troll like.

I'm not calling the OP a troll... Rather that his post came off a bit egotistical. The way I read it is 'With zero experience actually playing the game I've decided this faction is unbalanced.' Which is something I find hard to believe most anyone could actually manage.

Are we reading the same post?

I haven't even played the game yet, but would that assumption be correct? They seem to have many more useful ships, and a huge variety of builds to take advantage of. Not to mention that they're bulkier in general, and less likely to die from some unlucky rolls. I understand that many of the imperial ships are meant to be more mobile, but being able to be wrecked by a few bad dice rolls seems like an unnecessarily large trade-off.

I really don't know what to think of the Scum ships. I know they're a recent expansion faction, but they don't seem to have any mechanics that stick out. From the quick glance I gave them, they seem like worse Rebels.

It's also an incredibly small sample size, but I've watched a few games between casual and semi-competitive players at my game shop, and I've never seen any of them play anything but Rebel ships.

Is any of this correct at all?

"I haven't played the game yet, but this is what I see. These are my assumptions. Is any of this correct?"

A troll would say something like, "I really want to get into this game, but it seems so heavily tilted in Rebel favor. I mean, just look at all the tournaments being won by Rebels...."

its a really clever troll. but i know its a troll, from having done many trolls in my day.

Yes they are, Paul Heaver has won Worlds 3 years in a row with REBELS, he didn't even try with another faction in 3 years, that kinda tells you something.

Already stated be merits repeating: It tells me that Paul likes to play Rebels.

You see plenty of people here saying they prefer to play one faction over another so they may form a bias towards that faction. Even without a bias if they are equally skilled playing multiple factions when push comes to shove they'll take the faction the like best.

On the idea that this thread was started by a troll I certainly can see it. To me the use of "overpowered" in the title is what kills it because with no experience in the game how does one draw that conclusion right from the start? Maybe the rebel ships are stronger in a side by side comparison except that ignores certain aspects the empire uses. If you only look at the starter then maybe the Rebels are "overpowered" compared to the Empire but that is just because one is looking at such a small sample that the big picture is missed. Someone who is only using the original core sents up Luke w/ R2D2, a torp, and maybe even the EPT I don't know what the Empire can do in that box to counter it.

Turns out that r/XwingTMG is a much friendlier community than you guys are (Both in terms of users, and beginner faqs). Not going to argue that my question wasn't dumb, but I had very little knowledge of the game at the time. Thanks to everyone who gave me a legitimate answer instead of immediately assuming I was a troll - I really do appreciate it.

Making the assertion that rebels are somehow easy mode or somehow overpowered is the same as blasphemy against Christ. As can be seen in the replies to this thread.

It wasn't always this way. Balance shifts over time. Imperials have been at the top of the power curve in the past. It is imperative that for these assertions to be effective that we evaluate them over the entirety of the existence of the game instead of judging using only a small window of time.

I think Rebels are at the top of the power curve right now. Imperials will have the Imperial Veterans soon and that will bring balance closer.

Imperials have always had a high learning/effectiveness curve. The better flown the imperials the more effective they can be.

With the people I play with empire is considered the more powerful faction.

Overall it's pretty well balanced.

Finally wtf is wrong with some of you people, its a simple question from a new player.... Wow.

Someone using the original core set willseetwo Tie fighters wipe the floor with an X-Wing. Wave 1 was heavily in favor of not imps but just the Tie Fighter. Raw stat efficieny!

No! No

Quicker, easier; more seductive the rebel side is

No! No

Quicker, easier; more seductive the rebel side is

Nope I beat you to that quote you lose -1 internets.

Turns out that r/XwingTMG is a much friendlier community than you guys are (Both in terms of users, and beginner faqs). Not going to argue that my question wasn't dumb, but I had very little knowledge of the game at the time. Thanks to everyone who gave me a legitimate answer instead of immediately assuming I was a troll - I really do appreciate it.

When it comes to a "beginner FAQs" you'll need to realize that the board members don't have much control over what gets stickied or not so that information is not kept in a nice, easy to find area. On the other hand question asking how to get into the game are usually answered quickly and with answers that are very consistent from thread to thread even when there is some disagreement about the exact course a new player could/should take.

What trips up your introduction is coming in what appears to be a strong bias right from the start (the use of "overpowering" in the title) which happens to correspond with some of the fissures that you'll find in communities. To use a poor analogy you are bringing peanut butter cookies to a party where there have been arguments about peanuts and/or cookies recently do to reasons that are entirely out of your control and that you may never have realize existed until you showed up.

I think people are just paranoid about trolls due to the past year of troll activity on these forums.

Methinks a lot of us have forgotten what it's like to be on the outside looking in. I'm still a noob, so let me try;

dirkester if you're still there, the short answer is yes, on a ship by ship basis, the Rebel ships look a lot more powerful and better protected. I mean, half the Imperial ships have no shields at all. Two things balance this out. One is the TIEs are quick and maneuverable. The other is that each ship/pilot combo "costs" a certain number of points. That T70 X-Wing, flown by Poe, with all the ups, extras, leather seats, white walls, etc looks like a monster next to a TIE fighter, and it usually is, but for the points cost of that ship you're not flying against a TIE, you're flying against 3 or even 4 TIEs. That's a lot of guns swarming around you, and you can only shoot back at one at a time. Considering the variety of different ships, pilot abilities,and weapons involved, FFG really has done a pretty impressive job of keeping things fairly even.

I haven't even played the game yet, but would that assumption be correct? They seem to have many more useful ships, and a huge variety of builds to take advantage of. Not to mention that they're bulkier in general, and less likely to die from some unlucky rolls. I understand that many of the imperial ships are meant to be more mobile, but being able to be wrecked by a few bad dice rolls seems like an unnecessarily large trade-off.

I really don't know what to think of the Scum ships. I know they're a recent expansion faction, but they don't seem to have any mechanics that stick out. From the quick glance I gave them, they seem like worse Rebels.

It's also an incredibly small sample size, but I've watched a few games between casual and semi-competitive players at my game shop, and I've never seen any of them play anything but Rebel ships.

Is any of this correct at all?

Rebels have all sorts of toys and some of their toys have no equivalens.

Other their toys have completely inferior equivalents.

And S&V just isn't worthy of powergaming from FFG point of view maybe.

But still fun.

IG&IG faction can do things

I mean, half the Imperial ships have no shields at all.

I don't mean to pick, but statements like that are part of the issue, because it may seem that way, but it really isn't. There are 12 ships in the Imperial faction. Of those 12 ships 3 don't have shields.

That means 3/4th of the Imperial ships are shielded, not half. It just so happens that the most iconic ships are the ones without, the Tie Fighter, Tie Interceptor and Tie Bomber.

Again not trying to pick on you, but it seems quite often people's comments about this kind of thing is based on perceptions and not actual facts.

Dammit Java. Now I have Stainds 'Outside' stuck in my head. great points though.

To the OP, in a word: no.

To me, Rebels are more forgiving due to higher HP, in general. That does not mean they are better.

Even if you disagree with OP, I think it's fair to say Rebels have had more competitive options.

Rebels have had Fat Han, Superdash, Corran, Jake/Tycho, Streshogs, and recently Poe.

For Imperials, Soontir, RAC, and just recently Vader (Whisper's dominance was clearly a miscalculation on FFG's part, but we can include that if you want).

For Scum, well it's only Brobots, but clearly things are going to change.

Now also consider that Rebels had two epic ships with some Worlds-level cards before Imperials even had one.

This isn't going to be a very popular opinion, but there's definitely a Rebel bias if you ask me. I don't think Rebels are necessarily more powerful, but they have some advantages over the other two factions.

p.s. I play all three factions equally and am planning flying Rebels at Store Championships, so I like to think the above isn't too biased.

I think people are just paranoid about trolls due to the past year of troll activity on these forums.

When i see a 1 post user suggesting rebels are op while also suggesting theyve never even seen the other factions played, it sets alarm bells ringing

Now also consider that Rebels had two epic ships

Rebels also had 2 ships that easily fit into the epic format, something the Imperials had zero of when the CR-90 and GR-75 was first announced. The Gonz didn't exist really until Rebels and the Raider was made up from scratch.

but there's definitely a Rebel bias if you ask me.

There's no real balance issue, there can be a marketing issue however. Because regardless of what some people say, Rebels are the good guys and most people prefer the good guys. If you were to poll the X-Wing community as a whole asking them what faction they prefer I'd bet the majority would say the Rebels. Maybe not a vast majority, but I'd say 55% or more would say that. At my LGS we have 4 rebel players and 2 imperial players.

So it makes some sense to market to the majority, which again isn't the same thing as skewing the balance in their favor.

Now also consider that Rebels had two epic ships

Rebels also had 2 ships that easily fit into the epic format, something the Imperials had zero of when the CR-90 and GR-75 was first announced. The Gonz didn't exist really until Rebels and the Raider was made up from scratch.

That's a fair point, but what I was trying to say is more at the end of the sentence "... with some Worlds-level cards before Imperials even had one."

When excluding Epic ships, Rebels and Imperials are assumed to be balanced - each release has been matched with its counterpart. But the Rebel Transport and Tantive were two releases with Worlds-level upgrades that were never matched until recently. That's a big deal.

Whether or not Imperial ships of that scale were ready to be introduced is a moot point. FFG still introduced those very impactful Rebel cards into the meta without doing the same for Imperials. They didn't have to release the transport and Tantive. I mean I guess they wanted to rake in that dough and capitalize on the popularity of Rebels, but that doesn't negate the fact that Rebels had that advantage - justified or not.

But the Rebel Transport and Tantive were two releases with Worlds-level upgrades that were never matched until recently.

We got C-3PO in the CR-90 and R2-D2, but the only thing really big out of the transport was the stressbot, which hasn't factored into the meta a ton until recently.

C-3PO was IMO as much a mistake as the Phantom was, and I wouldn't mind seeing it toned down a bit.

Whether or not Imperial ships of that scale were ready to be introduced is a moot point.

No it really isn't. There is in my mind no question that part of the point behind 3PO was to help sell the CR-90. Same reason you got the Emperor and the x1 in the Raider. FFG would of released Imperial epic ships a lot sooner if there had been any that they could actually have used.

So they released what they could when they could and added things into the package to help them sell, that isn't a rebel bias, that's a marketing gimmick.

I'm not saying that the Rebels didn't have any advantages but that doesn't prove that there's a bias towards the Rebels on FFG's part... I mean if you want to follow that logic then the Phantom would be proof of a even bigger Imperial bias really, considering how big of an advantage that was.

Maybe the fact rebels have won every worlds since the first, most nationals and regionals and major jugglers stats show a clear rebel win percent. Which clearly shows rebels as a stronger faction.

Really?

Here's Major Juggler's stats for nationals: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/178660-2015-nationals-results

Here are the winner counts:

Rebels: 3

Empire: 4

Scum: 6

Please check your definitions for one or more of the following words: "fact," "clear," and "win."

(I don't know why I keep getting into these discussions over and over)

Don't be silly, the Phantom's performance was clearly an unanticipated error. The Transport and Tantive were knowingly released alongside nothing. FFG knew the upgrade cards in those two kits would be good because, as you correctly pointed out, they needed to create incentive. Again, whether or not they wanted to just generate money doesn't mean Rebels didn't have access to those very good cards.

Right, so I think I misused "bias." I wasn't implying that FFG wants Rebels to be stronger, but instead that Rebels have advantages like prioritized releases or broader selection of competitive ships (which I would argue have indirectly made them slightly stronger). I don't believe OP was implying the former either.

What do you mean by "prioritized releases"?

Right, so I think I misused "bias." I wasn't implying that FFG wants Rebels to be stronger, but instead that Rebels have advantages like prioritized releases or broader selection of competitive ships (which I would argue have indirectly made them slightly stronger). I don't believe OP was implying the former either.

What do you mean by "prioritized releases"?

I was referring to Rebel Transport and Tantive releases before anything was developed for Imperials.

As Vanor pointed out, the Gozanti and Raider didn't exist at the time, but it still didn't mean they had to go ahead with two releases and new X-wing pilots.

That's my opinion at least.

that kinda tells you something.

Yes it does... That he prefers Rebels. Does not however actually prove anything else, let alone prove that Rebels are more powerful.

If that was actually true, then the top 16 in Regionals and Worlds should be be nearly exclusively Rebel lists.

Paul actually plays a lot of Imperials too check him out on vassel tourneys etc., but he prefers Rebels when it counts....Worlds.