We're in the process of putting together our ship and have 60 SP to spend. At the moment we are leaning towards a Frigate (rather than a Light Cruiser)but completely decking it out with as much stuff as we can, but we aren't sure what to go for.

The ship was part of a Space Hulk so is granted the +1 speed, +1 armour and +3 manoeuvrability, which is leading me to think towards a ship more suited to hit-and-runs.

What components do folk with this class of vessel usually opt for?

Murder Servitors
Barracks (military missions only)
Teleportarium (Archeotech)
Armoured Prow (Ramming and boarding)

Thanks for the reply. I've penciled in the Murder Servitors as they don't take up much room. Is an additional barracks really worth the extra space?

We can't take either the teleportarium or armoured prow as we never rolled the right ship history for archeotech use and are not using a cruiser to house an armoured prow.

craigpearson81 said:

The Barrracks is definitely worth the space if you plan on a bit of Hit & Run. Zoom into orbit, drop an army, get what you came for and go. Same with boarding parties. The more men and murder servitors you can send over, the more likely you can take whatever it is you're looking for and leave before your frigate is blasted to bits.

And why can't you take the Teleportarium? Just because it says you shouldn't take it doesn't mean you can't or the game becomes badwrongfun. With the Wrested From A Space Hulk complication, you actually have all the reason you need to include it, as ships from Hulks are often very old and contain Dark Age Tech. My ship, for instance, has the same complication and that is how we justified the modified engines from the Archeotech list.

After all, its not tournament BFG we're talking about here. It's an RPG where the GM can approve anything, including having your ship made entirely of Archetech components if you all think that would be fun (ooo, sounds like something to stat up just for kicks)...

One thing to remember is that the way your profit increases is by how much you exceed the required points for the endeavour. A component gives bonus for every stage to related to it's type.

These are the best bang for your buck so to speak:

Get the the shrine. It has great morale and creed bonus.

Get the Trophy room. It gives you bonuses to 3 different objective types.

The Dome give morale bonus, and exploration bonus with no power cost.

PS- Murder Servitors are course a greate buy too. A good command skill, and them can take out a component every round.

PPS- As a GM I feel that having more than a single Archetech component really goes against the setting and smacks of munckinism. Archetech should be something you get only after great effort.

PPPS- Light cruisers are pretty much the suck. I'd rather have a prow, and dorsal or 2 dorsal mounts than a starboard, port, and prow mount. A 60 point cruiser will be ripped apart by a 60 point frighter much less a raider or frigate. The cruiser with 2 broadside on each side is nasty, but who can afford weapons for the mounts even if you roll 70 SP.

The Prow weapon on the light cruiser really isn't that bad as long as you keep to fighting at a broadside. The Prow on a light cruiser can fire both to the front, and to Port and Starboard.

The Prow weapon on the light cruiser really isn't that bad as long as you keep to fighting at a broadside. The Prow on a light cruiser can fire both to the front, and to Port and Starboard.

Not sure whether it would work power-wise, but I've toyed with the idea of using only lances on the broadsides and a macrobattery on the prow. The battery would obviously be used only for depleting void shields with the lances going for the kill.

And why can't you take the Teleportarium? Just because it says you shouldn't take it doesn't mean you can't or the game becomes badwrongfun. With the Wrested From A Space Hulk complication, you actually have all the reason you need to include it, as ships from Hulks are often very old and contain Dark Age Tech. My ship, for instance, has the same complication and that is how we justified the modified engines from the Archeotech list.

After all, its not tournament BFG we're talking about here. It's an RPG where the GM can approve anything, including having your ship made entirely of Archetech components if you all think that would be fun (ooo, sounds like something to stat up just for kicks)...

Yeah, and you can also start with all attributes at 100. Still, I think we're talking rules here - and the rules say "no getting archeotech at the start without the Reliquary of Mars".

Cifer said:

Uh, no it doesn't say you can't. It specifically says...

...these components should only be available if the ship has the Reliquary of Mars Complication, the players earn them through their Warrant of Trade , or if the GM makes them available ...

So three possibilities that say you aren't breaking any rules by picking up an Archeotech device all prefaced by a should , not a can't. And trying to equate allowing a single Archeotech item on a ship Wrested from a Space Hulk with just giving everyone a 100 in every attribute is not even close to equivelent. It is so far from equivelent that it shoots far past the realm of hyperbole. In fact, by your reasoning, allowing folks to deviate from the Origin Path system by giving them a free row is paramount to rules heresy, yet I see quite a few people takign that option or just allowing free picks altogether...

craigpearson81 said:

That's sort of the trouble. It's pretty hard decking out a little frigate with too many Ship Points. There just isn't enough power and space to go round.

@Luther

I read those other options to refer to components received during play by endeavours. Otherwise please explain why the Reliquary of Mars has any value at all when you can get the components anyway.

Cifer said:

My point is that it doesn't say anywhere that you can't do it (note the word 'Should'). And the GM can do whatever the heck he wants to anyway, so if I, the GM, decide that the ship can have such a thing, then it bloody well will have and I'm not expecting Inquisitorial Stromtroopers to break down my door to correct me, either.

The advantage of the Reliquary of Mars still exists as it allows you take an 'extra' piece of Archeotech. I would think it would be rare for a ship to have more than a couple of these sorts of devices, but a Reliquary of Mars Wrested from a Space Hulk seems like a good candidate for at least two. Also it makes your ship a holy object to the AM, which means that you have some prestige amongst the AM and they are more likely to aid you in keeping your 'floating mecha' in good shape as long as you can put up with the constant stream of pilgrims. See how easy that was? Just a little bit of imagination is all it took.

But hey, let's let you use your imagination for a change. Why can't I do it and how is it going to irreperably destroy 'game balance' if I do? And please try to answer this quesiton without hyperbole like 'Well if you aren't goign to follow every rule to the letter you may as well just say that every character has the power of the Emperor and Horus still lives and hands out lollipops to all the good liitle mutants...'

My point is that it doesn't say anywhere that you can't do it (note the word 'Should'). And the GM can do whatever the heck he wants to anyway, so if I, the GM, decide that the ship can have such a thing, then it bloody well will have and I'm not expecting Inquisitorial Stromtroopers to break down my door to correct me, either.

Well, noone expects the inquisitorial stormtroopers! That's their main weapon, after all. Surprise. Well, Surprise and Fear. And hellguns. Er...

The advantage of the Reliquary of Mars still exists as it allows you take an 'extra' piece of Archeotech. I would think it would be rare for a ship to have more than a couple of these sorts of devices, but a Reliquary of Mars Wrested from a Space Hulk seems like a good candidate for at least two. Also it makes your ship a holy object to the AM, which means that you have some prestige amongst the AM and they are more likely to aid you in keeping your 'floating mecha' in good shape as long as you can put up with the constant stream of pilgrims. See how easy that was? Just a little bit of imagination is all it took.

So a ship without the Reliquary of Mars background, but with a piece of archeotech on-board wouldn't be considered most interesting by the AM?

But hey, let's let you use your imagination for a change. Why can't I do it and how is it going to irreperably destroy 'game balance' if I do? And please try to answer this quesiton without hyperbole like 'Well if you aren't goign to follow every rule to the letter you may as well just say that every character has the power of the Emperor and Horus still lives and hands out lollipops to all the good liitle mutants...'

You're reading things into my post that aren't stated in there. I'm not saying you "can't" do it. You can do everything with the game, including having every character have the power of the Emperor and Horus handing out lollipops to whoever he **** well wants.
I was, however, referring to the usual forum practice of discussing a game as-is and under the rules as written, without assuming massive GM fiat, unless it's a thread about houserules.

Cifer said:

Again, how is a single piece of Archeotech 'Massive GM Fiat?'

Again, how is a single piece of Archeotech 'Massive GM Fiat?'

By being a single piece of Archeotech that isn't granted by the system, but by the GM. Thus, GM fiat. And since we're talking Archeotech, the 'best of the best' where technology is concerned: massive.

Lazytanker said:

Hmm I missed the line on page 219. Prow weapons on light cruisers and larger can fire fore, port, and starboard. This makes for a nasty lance and battery combo which a frigate can't do with it's dorsal mounts. A raider can do it, but it needs to keep targets in it's forward arc.

I'd have to agree with Cifer. It's like in D&D letting all the 1st lvl characters start with +5 magic items. The GM can do it, but it can throw off the balance of the game because they been given *very* powerful tools outside of their level. It's not intended in the rules, but the GM can do it if he wants.

Part of the fun of RT is finding and acquiring those pieces of archaeotech starship pieces. They should be goals to work towards, not handed out at the start. That's part of why the Reliquary is so nice, since it lets the PCs start with ONE of these special devices.

I'd also imagine more than one or two pieces, unless well-hidden, and the AM won't just think the ship's holy, they'll confiscate it "for the good of the Imperium", as such an amazingly holy ship should only be tended by AM.

Luther said:

Uhm, didn't you just say:

"...these components should only be available if the ship has the Reliquary of Mars Complication , the players earn them through their Warrant of Trade , or if the GM makes them available ..."

And you mainly stressed the last example of GM intervention?

Hence you invoked GM fiat. The "massiveness" of the GM fiat could perhaps be debatable, but it's GM fiat nontheless...

Varnias Tybalt said:

That's never really a problem. Unspent ship points turn into Profit Factor, so it's not like they're going to waste. Always better to roll high for SP than for initial PF. Gives you more choices.

craigpearson81 said:

What did you get for Complications? They're as much of a factor as Past History IME. Usually you'll want to play to the strengths they generate, or build to cover weaknesses - eg Haunted ships may want components that add Morale, but they get a Detection bonus and are harder to board.