2. I think the generations weren't the characters. They were the fans. I also think Padme was the worst of them all, as far as role models go. I'm old enough now to get how much she did but it was almost all off camera. To little me, she was in decline throughout the prequels. She went from strong willed queen to butt kicking senator to whiny, crying, losing the will to live, purposely refusing to accept the truth until it was way too late. Leia and Rey (so far) are a lot more like what I would want my movie heroes to be like.

Sorry to derail things:

Dying from a broken heart is an actual thing, just google "broken heart spouse death Harvard study"

It is actually something I worry about with my wife because we are so close and madly in love. And yes we say cheesy lovey-dovey crap ALL THE TIME exactly like Anakin and Padme in EP II and III. Which is why their relationship is very believable to me and my wife. It is jarring when you see it, we have two married couple friends and my wife's mother and new husband are the same and we find it gross. But it's not gross when we do it. Maybe thats part of the problem with the prequels, all the PDA you have to sit through! Nobody likes that stuff!

As a kid I might have wanted a Vader action figure. I would never have wanted a Kylo action figure.

As a kid I might have wanted a Metallica album. I would never have wanted a Justin Bieber album.

And yet here we are.

I definitely want a Kylo Ren action figure, but toys are so expensive in Argentina.

So I observed three things that convinced me that Rey is not related to anyone we have seen before. In the order shown in the movies;

First: She says to BB-8 she is waiting for her family to come get her. (Meaning she knows who her family is)

Second: She knows who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are, as revealed during the scene when Solo and Chewie board the falcon. ("The Luke Skwalker? I thought he was a myth.")

Third: She was old enough to know her family when they left her on Jakku, as seen in the vision.

So she knows who her family is. It is not Luke or the Solos.

The thing I loved the most about the Han/Kylo scene was how it was the inverse of the Luke/Vader scene on Cloud City.

After defeating him in battle, Vader appeals to Luke to join him on the Dark Side. Luke denies him and leaps to his death (which is what Luke had to assume was going to happen ... who expects to leap into a chasm and slide to safety, really?)

Whereas

Before detonating the explosives to defeat Kylo's superweapon, Han appeals to Kylo to join him on the Light Side. Kylo refuses and stabs Han, sending him tumbling to his death in a chasm.

2. I think the generations weren't the characters. They were the fans. I also think Padme was the worst of them all, as far as role models go. I'm old enough now to get how much she did but it was almost all off camera. To little me, she was in decline throughout the prequels. She went from strong willed queen to butt kicking senator to whiny, crying, losing the will to live, purposely refusing to accept the truth until it was way too late. Leia and Rey (so far) are a lot more like what I would want my movie heroes to be like.

Sorry to derail things:

Dying from a broken heart is an actual thing, just google "broken heart spouse death Harvard study"

It is actually something I worry about with my wife because we are so close and madly in love. And yes we say cheesy lovey-dovey crap ALL THE TIME exactly like Anakin and Padme in EP II and III. Which is why their relationship is very believable to me and my wife. It is jarring when you see it, we have two married couple friends and my wife's mother and new husband are the same and we find it gross. But it's not gross when we do it. Maybe thats part of the problem with the prequels, all the PDA you have to sit through! Nobody likes that stuff!

Actually this can also happen when something other that is very near and dear to your heart or of the utmost importance for you dies or is broken or stops existing in any way. My Grandfather was a major in the Wehrmacht during World War II. Late in the war he was sent to the eastern front and one day while going scrounging for food at the local farms he and his comrades witnessed a mass execution of POWs. That shook him hard. especially his youthful trust and believe in the german soldier's honor. After the war he went on to become a brigadeer general in the Bundeswehr. He helped develop this new military for Germany as a force to only defend, but never invade again. Came 1998 and the Kosovo crisis and our government decided to send troops to albania, my now retired grandfather first fumed when the idea was discussed (I remember that very well) then when it happened he fell silent, wasn't the same guy anymore and died just 1 week after german troops set foot on albanian ground. I get teared up when I think of that, I love my grandfather. He was strict with the table manners, but a kind, warmhearted man, a true believer and one of the best Model train conductors a boy could wish for. He gifted to me his Super8 camera.

Different theories on the injury thing. One, which makes a fair amount of sense, was too feed off the pain to strength himself with the dark side. So he kind of had a Darth Sion thing going on. Another possibility is he was hitting himself to lessen the pain; it's a trick somebody can do, although it makes the injury much worse. Temporarily, though, it would have lessened it so he could focus.

And I dig the entire fight, except maybe they made the part at the end where Rey centers herself and turns the tide a little too drawn out. I appreciate the rawness of the entire fight, from Kylo vs Finn to Kylo vs Rey.

With abdominal wounds (especially explosive ones), there's sometimes a pressure build-up inside the body you need to lessen before it gets fatal. Forceful expulsion aka punching via pressure above the wound to get the air out is literally to prevent himself from dying. He was "feeding on his pain" is what you tell kids when you don't want to tell them "he doesn't want his lungs to be crushed inside his body and his guts to spill out due to air pressure buildup".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumothorax

(notably what Kylo is doing doesn't work for long and unless he receives proper medical care ASAP after the fight, he's going to need his lungs regrown, or artificial ones...)

Hmmm. Now that is very interesting, and makes sense. So we can assume that Kylo has basic med training, too.

I remarked in another thread elsewhere how awesome it would be to have Leia go full darkside on Kylo, now that he's killed Han. Her son, her responsibility, et al. Alternatively, have her be his 'Vader' trying to turn him back to the light. Though I think that's less likely than an aggressive response. Leia was always pretty angry from what I saw of her on screen. Never mind SHE gets along fine with a bunch of fuzzy cannibals for some reason. Didn't that creep anybody out?

I could see Leia being the main reason Kylo went bad, too. She was tortured by Vader, she associates the force with Vader, so her son having it and going to train with Luke likely would have netted a very poor response from her. She even hints at this in her conversation with Han about Kylo. All the force stuff and her own personal Vader-trauma could well lead to her pushing her own son away...and right into Snoke's arms.

As for Rey, oof, she's kind of a hybrid in concepts between Jaina and Jarael. That much is clear for me from simply looking at her character. One of those inspirations is related to Luke, the other isn't related to anybody and, iirc, a genetic experiment. It could really go either way. I'm liking the Anakin connection more and more, though. Having the Vader-wannabe face off against literally Vader would be amusing. On the other hand: Do we even know Luke is still good or wants to be a jedi? The next arc could very well be Rey coming to learn and finding out that there's not only very little to learn, but the real task is getting Luke back in the fight.

Actually, I was wondering about Leia myself. She didn't take the news about who her real father was too well, and in the books it took her some time to come to terms with it. She doesn't appear to have trained as a Jedi either.

My personal hope is that she trys to convince Kylo to return to the light, he refuses, and she duels him and is forced to kill him.

One thing that I have been mulling over, and haven't seen mentioned anywhere so far (and it's surprising because of all of the other dumbass theories on the net), is that what if someone force compelled Rey to wait on Jakku as a mind trick. And this was only broken after she touched the sabre and her force powers 'woke up'?

This would explain why she feels the need to stay on Jakku and wait for someone that will apparently come get her, especially after being given ample opportunity to turn her back on the crappy junk planet and actually go searching for whoever left her behind.

On a slightly separate note, was Lor San Tekka on Jakku watching over Rey or did his search for the map lead him to Jakku as a point along the journey?

Or was the map part actually hidden on Jakku with the expectation that Rey would find it 'when the time was right' but Lor found it first?

I like that idea! The only thing I wonder about is whether someone would force trick a little child. Unless, that was a false memory......

And again as has been mentioned earlier, what about the vision in her mind of Luke's hiding spot? She didn't consciously know where he was, and yet Kylo was able to see a location in her mind that matched Luke's hideout perfectly. Has anyone considered how bizarre that is? Personally, I found that to be one of the most confusing moments of dialogue; how does Rey have a picture in her mind of where Luke is hiding? Especially since she apparently doesn't know where he is? Although she knows WHO he is?

So I observed three things that convinced me that Rey is not related to anyone we have seen before. In the order shown in the movies;

First: She says to BB-8 she is waiting for her family to come get her. (Meaning she knows who her family is)

Second: She knows who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are, as revealed during the scene when Solo and Chewie board the falcon. ("The Luke Skwalker? I thought he was a myth.")

Third: She was old enough to know her family when they left her on Jakku, as seen in the vision.

So she knows who her family is. It is not Luke or the Solos.

In all the discussions on Rey being a Skywalker that I've seen and this is the first time someone has pointed out that she was old enough to remember who her family was.

So I observed three things that convinced me that Rey is not related to anyone we have seen before. In the order shown in the movies;

First: She says to BB-8 she is waiting for her family to come get her. (Meaning she knows who her family is)

Second: She knows who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are, as revealed during the scene when Solo and Chewie board the falcon. ("The Luke Skwalker? I thought he was a myth.")

Third: She was old enough to know her family when they left her on Jakku, as seen in the vision.

So she knows who her family is. It is not Luke or the Solos.

In all the discussions on Rey being a Skywalker that I've seen and this is the first time someone has pointed out that she was old enough to remember who her family was.

But she doesn't. She doesn't even know their names.

I don't recall her saying them but I don't recall anybody asking either.

So I observed three things that convinced me that Rey is not related to anyone we have seen before. In the order shown in the movies;

First: She says to BB-8 she is waiting for her family to come get her. (Meaning she knows who her family is)

Second: She knows who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are, as revealed during the scene when Solo and Chewie board the falcon. ("The Luke Skwalker? I thought he was a myth.")

Third: She was old enough to know her family when they left her on Jakku, as seen in the vision.

So she knows who her family is. It is not Luke or the Solos.

In all the discussions on Rey being a Skywalker that I've seen and this is the first time someone has pointed out that she was old enough to remember who her family was.

But she doesn't. She doesn't even know their names.

Not knowing their names and not knowing who they are are two separate things. There are a lot of people in life that I know, whose names I don't even remember. But if I bumped into them somewhere I'd be like "dude!!!" Happens at every Gen Con actually.

I've never quite grasped the whole thing about Luke being a whiner. Most of the situations he does complain in I can sympathize with; I think anybody would be incensed when some swamp toad steals your stuff and starts bossing you around. And he grows out of by the end of Ep. V. It's not even remotely as grating as Anakin.

I don't disagree with what Luke was complaining about. I just think he sounded too much like he was whiny while he was complaining.

As a kid I might have wanted a Vader action figure. I would never have wanted a Kylo action figure.

As a kid I might have wanted a Metallica album. I would never have wanted a Justin Bieber album.

And yet here we are.

Bah!

2. I think the generations weren't the characters. They were the fans. I also think Padme was the worst of them all, as far as role models go. I'm old enough now to get how much she did but it was almost all off camera. To little me, she was in decline throughout the prequels. She went from strong willed queen to butt kicking senator to whiny, crying, losing the will to live, purposely refusing to accept the truth until it was way too late. Leia and Rey (so far) are a lot more like what I would want my movie heroes to be like.

Sorry to derail things:

Dying from a broken heart is an actual thing, just google "broken heart spouse death Harvard study"

It is actually something I worry about with my wife because we are so close and madly in love. And yes we say cheesy lovey-dovey crap ALL THE TIME exactly like Anakin and Padme in EP II and III. Which is why their relationship is very believable to me and my wife. It is jarring when you see it, we have two married couple friends and my wife's mother and new husband are the same and we find it gross. But it's not gross when we do it. Maybe thats part of the problem with the prequels, all the PDA you have to sit through! Nobody likes that stuff!

I don't mean to downplay this since it is a serious concern for you but I did a you said and that study was done on older people, 50 and up, who have been married for way more than a decade. That might fit you or maybe it doesn't but it definitely doesn't fit Padme and Anakin. Besides, she just met and named her newborn babies. She blew all credibility as a hero if she actually lost the will to live because her man was gone when there were babies involved. Even if it's a real life thing, that'd be the sort of thing heroes are supposed overcome. Can you imagine Han Solo falling over dead because he thought Leia wanted to be with Luke (yuck!) near the end of rotj?

In the Special Haley Edition of the prequels, Padme would realize with her connection to Anakin, he'd find her. They'd demonstrate that beforehand. So she would place her children in the care of Obi Won, avoiding knowledge of his intentions just in case she was captured by Anakin, and then leave... helping to hide the babies by leaving a trail leading directly to her before ultimately sacrificing herself so they could live...

But now I'm in threadjack territory. I know because I'm very familiar with it. My house I right there.

deleted double post

So I observed three things that convinced me that Rey is not related to anyone we have seen before. In the order shown in the movies;

First: She says to BB-8 she is waiting for her family to come get her. (Meaning she knows who her family is)

Second: She knows who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are, as revealed during the scene when Solo and Chewie board the falcon. ("The Luke Skwalker? I thought he was a myth.")

Third: She was old enough to know her family when they left her on Jakku, as seen in the vision.

So she knows who her family is. It is not Luke or the Solos.

Lets review

1. No it means she is waiting for her family to come and get her. That does not mean she knows who they are.

2. Which does not preclude Luke being her father.

3. Not exactly she is about 5 or 6 years old its been 12 or 13 years and she has nothing to help her retain information on her family. She has no pictures, no notes all she has is a Rebel Alliance helmet which I could swear is Luke's from the first movie.

Now lets skip to the more importent hints.

1. In her vision we don't see her family, but we do see Luke covered in a cloak.

2. Luke's old light saber called her to it.

3. When Kylo Ren was interrogating her one of the things he pulled out of her mind was Luke's exact location...

4. She's stronger in the force then Kylo Ren.

5. The movies have a Skywalker as the central character they could even be called the Skywalker Chronicles..

Now lets get to the how Luke can be her father and she has no idea.

1. Her mother never told her who her father is.

2. Her mother does not know who her father is.

3. The family who dropped her off on Jakku aren't her real family.

4. She was kidnapped as a baby

5. She was fostered as a baby to hide her from the empire.

6. Luke had a one night stand while celebrating the destruction of the death star.

7. Luke got drunk one night while mourning the death of his father.

8. Luke wiped his daughter's memories after he mother was killed by the Knights of Ren.

9. Buba Fett sold her into slavery as revenge for the whole Sarlacc Pitt thing.

I'm about 99% certain Rey is Luke's daughter. Let's look at the evidence.

• Right from the start, we know that Star Wars (at least the main movies, as opposed to the upcoming anthologies) is a story about the Skywalker dynasty. Lucas has said so, and Disney has confirmed it. Now, that could mean Ben is the Skywalker in question here, since he is Anakin's grandson, so let's not make any assumptions yet.
• The lightsaber of Luke and Anakin Skywalker called to Rey, drew her in with the Force. Some have argued that Obi-Wan Kenobi had possession of the weapon longer than either Anakin or Luke, but Kenobi didn't fight with it as far as we know. Not just that, but we know from the Clone Wars series that the crystal of a lightsaber calls to its owner before it's made. (Of course, this could point to the "reincarnated Anakin" theory... but read on!)
• The vision Rey has is what's most important to this theory. There's a scene in the vision when Kylo and the Knights of Ren are slaughtering the members of the new Jedi Order. Then it cuts to an image of Rey standing in front of them, and we see from Rey's point of view Kylo reaching out to grab her. The scene then cuts to Jakku. Rey is young - six or seven years old - and being dragged off by Unkar Plutt. Rey is shouting for them not to leave her. Who? In the background we see a ship taking off. Did anyone notice how much this ship looked like a First Order transport? It sure did to me! How can that be?
  
  Well... here's the crux of it all. If she is indeed Luke's daughter, then she does have family members left. Luke. Leia. Ben Solo... aka Kylo Ren. My theory is that Kylo, still hearing the call of the Light (which he admitted to his father), couldn't kill his little cousin. Instead, he abducted her, flew her somewhere off into the Outer Rim, and left her behind. If that is indeed a First Order troop transport (and I think it is!), he's the most obvious culprit. So... either Kylo Ren wiped Rey's mind (something he might be able to do, as he appears to be one of the most powerful mental savants we've seen in the Star Wars universe) or she lost some of her memory due to the traumatic experience of it all. But she knows her family - perhaps her cousin? - dropped her off on Jakku. It also explains why Kylo Ren is so suddenly concerned when he finds out BB-8 and FN2187 have escaped with the help of a girl.

Anyway, there's potentially more to it, but that's what I've got for now.

I'd rather she wasn't but I think she's likely Luke's daughter for only one more reason.

In one of the trailers, we hear Luke say the force runs strong in his family. He lists his father, himself, his sister and finally says, "You have it."

He never says that (or any!) line in the movie but he had to be speaking about someone. It might be Kylo but would he refer to Leia as his sister or, "your mother" in that case?

Unless there's another character hiding in the wings, it's someone we've met. It isn't air tight but, added with everything else people have said, it's close.

I still think Luke being the father leaves a large, cancerous question about who the mother is. It would either be ignored or diverge from the story about a character we have no emotional investment in. And you can't pull a Shmi on us wither. Unless Rey is the result of mitosis. Now that would be an interesting solution.

Although I suppose cloning isn't entirely out of the scenario.

This is Disney now... the mysteriously missing parent is practically a staple in their fiction at this point.

I still think Luke being the father leaves a large, cancerous question about who the mother is. It would either be ignored or diverge from the story about a character we have no emotional investment in.

Personally, I think Rey's mother (if the Skywalker theory is true) was on that ship in her vision, and intended to come back for Rey once things were safe. But that didn't happen as Rey's mom was killed, which may also have been a factor in driving Luke to take up a life of hermitude, the knowledge that his wife and child were dead, possibly even murdered by his own nephew. Having lost everything that really mattered to him (wife, child, school, students), he was probably in shock and decided at that point he just didn't want to deal with it until he could do so in a calm manner befitting a Jedi Master.

They also really don't have to go into a whole lot of exposition in the film about Rey's mother. It could even be covered during a training sequence between her and Luke, where Luke reminisces briefly about the woman, much like Obi-Wan did about Anakin when describing him to Luke in ANH, essentially saying she was an incredible woman, and that Rey has a lot in common personality-wise with her mother.

After all, we didn't get the dirt on Luke and Leia's mother until well over a decade after RotJ had been in theaters given she really didn't factor into the plot of the original films, so it's entirely possible that Rey's mother/Luke's wife would be treated in a similar fashion, and the full details of her life being left to supplemental material.

I still think Luke being the father leaves a large, cancerous question about who the mother is. It would either be ignored or diverge from the story about a character we have no emotional investment in.

Personally, I think Rey's mother (if the Skywalker theory is true) was on that ship in her vision, and intended to come back for Rey once things were safe. But that didn't happen as Rey's mom was killed, which may also have been a factor in driving Luke to take up a life of hermitude, the knowledge that his wife and child were dead, possibly even murdered by his own nephew. Having lost everything that really mattered to him (wife, child, school, students), he was probably in shock and decided at that point he just didn't want to deal with it until he could do so in a calm manner befitting a Jedi Master.

They also really don't have to go into a whole lot of exposition in the film about Rey's mother. It could even be covered during a training sequence between her and Luke, where Luke reminisces briefly about the woman, much like Obi-Wan did about Anakin when describing him to Luke in ANH, essentially saying she was an incredible woman, and that Rey has a lot in common personality-wise with her mother.

After all, we didn't get the dirt on Luke and Leia's mother until well over a decade after RotJ had been in theaters given she really didn't factor into the plot of the original films, so it's entirely possible that Rey's mother/Luke's wife would be treated in a similar fashion, and the full details of her life being left to supplemental material.

Pretty solid! Pretty mch ANY thory where Rey came from has it's merits and can be "proven" or "disproven". I personally think that this is the most plausible outcome, it is reminiscent for me when I predicted Han's death last year when talkig with my siblings about the upcoming film. They denied that I didn't know that, but I said it is entirely logical. I was right of course, but I hoped to be proven false the entire film. And even though this whole discussionreminds me of the one with ym siblings, I still don't know exactly what Rey's parentage is and I don't want to say that my theory is the non-plus-ultra. I just look at the circumstances, both inside the films world and outside it (corporate disney that is) and go along that.

If Rey's really is something entirely "alien" (for lack of a better word) from what we expect. I'll tip my hat to those who predicted it and the filmmakers for getting it through corporate editing.

In the Special Haley Edition of the prequels, Padme would realize with her connection to Anakin, he'd find her. They'd demonstrate that beforehand. So she would place her children in the care of Obi Won, avoiding knowledge of his intentions just in case she was captured by Anakin, and then leave... helping to hide the babies by leaving a trail leading directly to her before ultimately sacrificing herself so they could live...

That’s a much better ending for Padme than the crap that GL came up with.

It’s a shame we can’t just re-make that movie with this version of events. Maybe in a few years, we’ll actually be able to do that, what with Star Wars Battlefront looking almost movie-quality in a real-time computer game.

I don't mean to downplay this since it is a serious concern for you but I did a you said and that study was done on older people, 50 and up, who have been married for way more than a decade. That might fit you or maybe it doesn't but it definitely doesn't fit Padme and Anakin. Besides, she just met and named her newborn babies. She blew all credibility as a hero if she actually lost the will to live because her man was gone when there were babies involved. Even if it's a real life thing, that'd be the sort of thing heroes are supposed overcome. Can you imagine Han Solo falling over dead because he thought Leia wanted to be with Luke (yuck!) near the end of rotj?

In the Special Haley Edition of the prequels, Padme would realize with her connection to Anakin, he'd find her. They'd demonstrate that beforehand. So she would place her children in the care of Obi Won, avoiding knowledge of his intentions just in case she was captured by Anakin, and then leave... helping to hide the babies by leaving a trail leading directly to her before ultimately sacrificing herself so they could live...

Agreed on all counts.

If Padme has to die, then that would have been far more fitting for her as a hero, instead of fatal swooning from "heartache".