Ooh, you have the gall to claim the Y-wing needs a fix? because

If anything the Y-Wing is a worse ship by virtue of it's stats and dial

Now I'm not sure if this is a strawman or what, but the reason the Y-wing is good is because it can take TLT, for long range consistent damage. Add in BTLA4 and Stressbot for double stress at range 3, or maybe roll with BTL Ion for an amazing jouster. The Y-wing has so many options. It can be an Ion control ship, a Stress control ship, a great jouster, a consistently damaging turret, and for a low price.

I don't know where you saw him saying that 'the y-wing needed a fix', but i can't find such thing in his post.

No worries, he's just a dude with epic boner on T-65

If you have an opinion and he can't overcome your logics he's calling you a strawman and proclaim himself the victor.

It's not T-65 that's not "top tier" that's just jousters being out of FFG favor for the moment, nothing special here.

Ooh, you have the gall to claim the Y-wing needs a fix? because

If anything the Y-Wing is a worse ship by virtue of it's stats and dial

Now I'm not sure if this is a strawman or what, but the reason the Y-wing is good is because it can take TLT, for long range consistent damage. Add in BTLA4 and Stressbot for double stress at range 3, or maybe roll with BTL Ion for an amazing jouster. The Y-wing has so many options. It can be an Ion control ship, a Stress control ship, a great jouster, a consistently damaging turret, and for a low price.

I don't know where you saw him saying that 'the y-wing needed a fix', but i can't find such thing in his post.

He's saying because the Y-wing has worse stats and dial than the T-65, but because the Y-wing is fine as is, the T-65 doesn't need a fix.

Which is actually worse!

But congrats, you managed to drag Warpman out from under his bridge. Now someone's got to find him a pacifier to suck on. Maybe he can make another well thought out and backed up by evidence (not just his fee fees) thread about how he wants Armada dice for ordnance!

Old ships are still viable, certainly.

Old lists may need some attention to deal with new factors, and some of these aspects may mean you want to spend more money (Or at least proxy the cards in question until you've a solid understanding of what you'd want to buy):

- Autothrusters [starVipers] has dramatically changed the value of anything with a native Boost to being able to withstand enemy turrets and long-range shots very well indeed. When flying Falcons, be sure to have another plan. Soontir Fel laughs with this card.

- Stressbots (Y-wings with R3-A2 [Rebel Transport] and BTL-A4 [Most Wanted]) and packing either an Ion Cannon Turret or Twin Laser Turret [K-wing] lose their ability to shoot backwards, but in return get to fire twice. R3-A2 adds a stress per attack (and doesn't even need to hit to do it.) So if you've got ships that rely on their actions a lot, be sure that they're the sort of ship that can avoid a PS-2 Y-wing gun arc... or have another plan.

- Crackshot [Kithraxz, Hounds Tooth] lets an enemy cancel one of your evades after you're done spending tokens. This makes it much harder to keep a ship at full health and unscathed; Soontir Fel sweats over this card.

- X-wings, TIE Advanceds, and Defenders all have balance patches (The Defender one is announced, but not yet arrived). X-wings get Integrated Astromech [T-70 pack, 1 per blister at the moment] to ignore a damage by discarding their droid {Including crits, so basically it turns every droid into a mini-chewie as well as their original ability!), TIE Advanceds [Raider (huge ship!) comes with 4 x1 tittles] get System Slots (and an upgrade that means that for a net +1pt, you can add auto-crits to ships you've target locked), and the Defender will soon get two titles [imperial Veterans] one of which hands out extra evade tokens and a cost discount in exchange for their cannons and missiles, while the other lets Defenders double-tap with their cannons and their primaries.
Long story short: If your favored lists involve these ships, you're likely to be spending a little more to get back with the game. X-wings are widely suspected to be coming with an expansion soon; if that doesn't contain Integrated Astromech there would be riots. Not critical now, just noting you probably don't have to count the X-wings in your collection and buy 1:1 T-70 X-wings to match... well, unless you want to.

- In general, there's a lot more boosting, barrel-rolling aces out there at the moment. If you're trying to fly 'old lists', make sure they can do something beyond 'set dial, reveal dial, shoot at thing in front of you', else you might find certain slippery ships have a habit of never staying in the arc you pointed at them.

- ... Oh, and some of those funny names? Yeah, there's a third faction out there now. If nothing else, try to get a game against a Brobots list - it will be an eye opener! (They're nowhere near impossible to beat; they just don't fly quite like anything else you'll have seen to date.)

All in all, you've actually picked a pretty good time to show up - the meta is wide open right now, balance patches are en route or have arrived for a great many ships, and with the right upgrades, there's a whole bunch of stuff that's not only fun to fly, but able to take on all comers.
There's just a bigger list of 'things you need to plan for' when squad building than there used to be... but that's probably to be expected as the game continues to get more stuff.

He's saying because the Y-wing has worse stats and dial than the T-65, but because the Y-wing is fine as is, the T-65 doesn't need a fix.

Which is actually worse!

But congrats, you managed to drag Warpman out from under his bridge. Now someone's got to find him a pacifier to suck on. Maybe he can make another well thought out and backed up by evidence (not just his fee fees) thread about how he wants Armada dice for ordnance!

That much hate will lead to the dark side for sure

Relax pal, just play the game and have fun...

Played a turnament yesterday took:

Poe with VI/R5-P9/IA

Luke with VI/R2D2/IA

Wedge with VI/BB8/IA

took 2nd place right behind 4 scum Y-wings with TLT and some astromech that makes all 3 speed manovers green.... i ecountered following lists:

- 2x IG-88

- Vader/Fel/Whisper

- Clozet/5 uniqe Ties (lost this game due to poor attack rolls)

- Dash/Corran

- Chiranou/Fel

If you know how to play X-wings are potent

-

So potent in fact that you were playing with a 103 point squad!

I hope you didn't rob some poor sap of prizes with your overcosted squad.

Ignore me, still havent played with IA yet, move along nothing to see here...

Thanks for all the replies and good info!

Looks like I'll have to pick up a few T-70s for the integrated astromech. Already have rebel transport, think i stopped playing right when rebel aces hit (which I'll need for those a-wing refits).

Needless to say I'll probably take some combo of x's and or b's.

XXBB is still pretty solid even if it's not quite top tier.

Try Biggs and Garven with an R5/R2 each and a pair of Blue Squadron pilots - 1 with E2 and Jan Ors

Simple, fun, effective and with nothing newer than wave 5 - give the two x-wings an integrated astromech each and it probably is approaching top tier

I've been playing an XXXZ list for a while now, and I've been doing pretty well with it. I run Wedge, Blount, and two Rookies. You'd need to pick up 3 Integrated Astromech cards for your X-wings. I've also got BB-8 on Wedge, but he still plays well with Push The Limit and an R2 astromech to help clear stress.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/327503/wedge-n-blount

But congrats, you managed to drag Warpman out from under his bridge. Now someone's got to find him a pacifier to suck on. Maybe he can make another well thought out and backed up by evidence (not just his fee fees) thread about how he wants Armada dice for ordnance!

That he came out under his bridge might actually have to do with that you came out from your bridge with the sign "the T65 totally sucks and needs MOAR fixes". And your choice of words in your post.

It's dead because T-65s suck, and only a few pilots with astonishingly fantastic Pilot Abilities + Droid Combos + IA can break the mold.

It's a testament to how deep a hole the T-65 is in that the few times the ship is good, it's only with two amazing pilots with amazing combos and the supposed fix to boot!

So, the T-65 X-wing is a jouster. Deny this, and you're denying reality. It has no post maneuver actions, it has a crummy dial for PTL, and it obviously has no turret.

I don't agree, it's not the whole story. R2 gives it a good ptl dial. It can be built to arc dodge, but cost and upgrades aside, approach is important. You can fly the t65 as a flanking unit, or as a decoy. While it has good stats for jousting, and lacks native reposition, its roll in a given game can be more defined by its position on the board. X wings are in a great position to influence targeting priority, and are extremely flexible with pilot choice/astromech/mod/pilot talent.

I routinely do well with swings, against strong meta builds. Anecdotal at best, certainly.

Ooh, you have the gall to claim the Y-wing needs a fix? because

If anything the Y-Wing is a worse ship by virtue of it's stats and dial

Now I'm not sure if this is a strawman or what, but the reason the Y-wing is good is because it can take TLT, for long range consistent damage. Add in BTLA4 and Stressbot for double stress at range 3, or maybe roll with BTL Ion for an amazing jouster. The Y-wing has so many options. It can be an Ion control ship, a Stress control ship, a great jouster, a consistently damaging turret, and for a low price.

I don't know where you saw him saying that 'the y-wing needed a fix', but i can't find such thing in his post.

He's saying because the Y-wing has worse stats and dial than the T-65, but because the Y-wing is fine as is, the T-65 doesn't need a fix.

Which is actually worse!

But congrats, you managed to drag Warpman out from under his bridge. Now someone's got to find him a pacifier to suck on. Maybe he can make another well thought out and backed up by evidence (not just his fee fees) thread about how he wants Armada dice for ordnance!

Um... no I'm saying the Y-Wing is better because of it's upgrades. Upgrades which the X-Wing currently lacks. Did I say don't fix the T-65? No, I implied that perhaps we should just chill the **** out and let FFG deal with it. But you know... T-65 needs 4 atk and 7 evade.

Now I'll wait here for some moron to point out that X-Wings can't take TLT.

No matter what ships you are with, a LARGE part of the game is flying. I've seen championship builds loose terrible due to inability to fly. T-65 is dated, so is the y-wing. Both need extras to make work; but that is the point. Find the style of play that works for you and maximize it.

A) swarm

B) mini-swarm with an angle.

C) 1 Ace plus some back up

D) 2-3 Aces

E) whatever you want.

TIE Swarm has not been a thing since the Phantom.

It's only starting to become a thing again because of Crackshot.

The TIE Swarm has always been a thing. But the Phantom meant that it wasn't the _only_ Imperal thing.

No, the Phantom completely took them out of the meta pretty much. Fat Turretwing lists drove that nail in even further. Post-Phantom nerf they didn't recover.

People like to pretend that Swarm is this boogey man that you have to account for when list building. It's really not. Out of the few dozen players in my area I'm the only player that runs 6 or more ships regularly.

TIE Swarm has not been a thing since the Phantom.

It's only starting to become a thing again because of Crackshot.

The TIE Swarm has always been a thing. But the Phantom meant that it wasn't the _only_ Imperal thing.

No, the Phantom completely took them out of the meta pretty much. Fat Turretwing lists drove that nail in even further. Post-Phantom nerf they didn't recover.

People like to pretend that Swarm is this boogey man that you have to account for when list building. It's really not. Out of the few dozen players in my area I'm the only player that runs 6 or more ships regularly.

Fat turrets are weak against swarms. Except Dash, who in my experience struggles with arc dodgers but annihilates swarms.

R2 gives it a good ptl dial.

Yes, but its action bar has only 2 actions. The T-65 with a 3rd action- perhaps just an evade!- would be a great vehicle for PTL. As it stands, you're better with Predator. And that's a large part of the reason the IA card is about 1 point over costed.

If you could somehow take R2, PTL and Expert Handling, the X-Wing would be amazing.

TIE Swarm has not been a thing since the Phantom.

It's only starting to become a thing again because of Crackshot.

The TIE Swarm has always been a thing. But the Phantom meant that it wasn't the _only_ Imperal thing.

No, the Phantom completely took them out of the meta pretty much. Fat Turretwing lists drove that nail in even further. Post-Phantom nerf they didn't recover.

People like to pretend that Swarm is this boogey man that you have to account for when list building. It's really not. Out of the few dozen players in my area I'm the only player that runs 6 or more ships regularly.

Fat turrets are weak against swarms. Except Dash, who in my experience struggles with arc dodgers but annihilates swarms.

Can't say I agree with the statement, really.

Boost is a tool that allowed them to not only competed, but even prevail.

boost on PWT and Autothruster on boosters are the "I don't give a **** about paper-scissor system" upgrade, hence they are so obvious and popular

R2 gives it a good ptl dial.

Yes, but its action bar has only 2 actions. The T-65 with a 3rd action- perhaps just an evade!- would be a great vehicle for PTL. As it stands, you're better with Predator. And that's a large part of the reason the IA card is about 1 point over costed.

If you could somehow take R2, PTL and Expert Handling, the X-Wing would be amazing.

I have never understood why the X didnt have evade, especially when something like the firespray or G1 can have it. Its a mainline fighter and while it may not be able to reposition, I dont see why it couldnt evade, reflecting its better than average performance.

Thanks to new astromechs and other upgrade cards, the T-65 is back!

IA and BB-8 in particular are to thank.

Wedge, Luke, and Biggs is a fun list that can just truck people now thanks to these two new upgrades.

A list I few about a year or so ago (and won every game I played with it) is now even better:

Garven, Biggs, 2xBlue

Give your x-wings a 1 point astromech of choice and IA and one of the Blues the E2 title and Jan Crew card. Biggs with a focus and an evade every round!

Although the list I'm really enjoying now is:

Wedge+BB-8+LW+IA

2xDagger+FCS+HLC

The B-wings hang back and take R3 HLC shots and Wedge chews ships up! Often, thanks to the B-wings being PS4, ships don't even get a shot back on Wedge.

My favorite all X-wing list is:

Poe+VI+R5-P9+AT

Ello+VI+R2-D2+AT

Blue Novice+R3-A2+IA

Blue hangs back to insure he keeps target in arc, and Poe and Ello zoom in and blow things up! You can fly the two aces very aggressively thanks to the shield regeneration.

Well if i'm going to use x wing rebel aces i'm partial to using biggs, wedge and luke. Sounds lame but they were my heroes as a kid.. ha! Also have the original alt art wedge and luke (missed bigg's event, think it was summer 2014 game night).

If i run into someone who has it maybe i can trade my other alt arts for it.. who knows.

TIE Swarm has not been a thing since the Phantom.

It's only starting to become a thing again because of Crackshot.

The TIE Swarm has always been a thing. But the Phantom meant that it wasn't the _only_ Imperal thing.

No, the Phantom completely took them out of the meta pretty much. Fat Turretwing lists drove that nail in even further. Post-Phantom nerf they didn't recover.

People like to pretend that Swarm is this boogey man that you have to account for when list building. It's really not. Out of the few dozen players in my area I'm the only player that runs 6 or more ships regularly.

Fat turrets are weak against swarms. Except Dash, who in my experience struggles with arc dodgers but annihilates swarms.

Can't say I agree with the statement, really.

Boost is a tool that allowed them to not only competed, but even prevail.

boost on PWT and Autothruster on boosters are the "I don't give a **** about paper-scissor system" upgrade, hence they are so obvious and popular

Sounds like Jousters need an upgrde that screws over arcdodgers... somehow.

Tractor beam might work... 4 Daggers with tractor beam, where if one has arc, it pulls the arcdodger to where others have arc...

Three buzzsaw shuttles. Deal with it.

I actually like putting R3A2 on an X-Wing every once in awhile. I mean, no crazy awesome actions, gotta be in arc, can carry stress like a champ. I know it's not amaze-balls but it's fun!

Old lists are viable with/because of current upgrade cards (for the most part).

I actually like putting R3A2 on an X-Wing every once in awhile. I mean, no crazy awesome actions, gotta be in arc, can carry stress like a champ. I know it's not amaze-balls but it's fun!

Hobbie, stressbot, stresspedoes, IA. Double stress a target for no stress to you.

Wes, stressbot, stresspedoes, IA. Double stress a target and steal an extra token whilst youre at it.

They are my goto R3-A2 builds.

If you could somehow take R2, PTL and Expert Handling, the X-Wing would be amazing.

Having played a few 'heroes of the aturi cluster' games, I can agree with this. X-wings are amazing ships mid-to-late in a campaign when you can stack 2-3 modifications and 2-3 upgrades together.

But yeah, you can do pretty well with 'old' lists. I've seen the trench run crew do nasty things to Soontir, Vader and Palpatine - which is definitely 'a thing' in current tournaments - Draw their fire, for example, is an old trick which gets a new lease of life against Vader, because the Advanced Targeting Computer's 'extra hit' is always a [critical].