Ok, hear me out guys. I've been playing a bit with the (relatively) new Dori in this dwarf deck I made (Dori/Gimli/Gloin). This is a multiplayer deck, which is why Dori caught my eye. He's got Sentinel.

So I started using him, and I'm not saying he's the next Glorfindel, but he's not nearly as bad as most of us originally made him out to be.

For 10 threat I slotted him in, his stats are pretty good. 5 HP is his main benefit, he can take a lot of punishment for only being 10 threat, and with Ring Mail he quickly becomes 3def 6 hp Sentinel.

Furthermore, that ability comes in handy more than you might think in multiplayer. Giving an extra 2-3 def to a hero turns out to be pretty useful. Now I know your probably thinking "yeah, but why would you spend 2 heroes to block when you could just sentinel with him instead" well, because a lot of the time it's a matter of Dori otherwise doing nothing. I don't defend much with said deck, I take a lot of hits right in the Gloin. So Dori is available to either block if I have to, sentinel or buff up another defender. Or attack, if need be.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to realize that this thread is going to get real controversial real fast.

Well, you just said it yourself: "a lot of the time it's a matter of Dori otherwise doing nothing".

You heard it here first. Dori is better than nothing.

I don't think he's terrible, just not as obviously useful as some. Not being able to defend an attack with more than one character can be awkward with some of the heavier hitting enemies these days, and dori essentially lets you. Sometimes you don't want to chump block, or risk a hero being killed, so being able to throw extra defence to a hero where needed is potentially useful.

Probably best in 3-4 player game, I would think.

haha. Okay, well I maybe could have put it better. Let me make the point a little clearer cut.

Originally I had Thalin in the deck. Dori is way better than Thalin.

I would question that assertion. Of course partly it's contextual - if you don't have so many good defenders available but attack is fine, then sure, a potential defence boost is going to be more useful than spreading direct damage around. But if you can defend adequately, then I come back to the "a lot of the time it's a matter of Dori otherwise doing nothing." I think we can be pretty sure that if you still had Thalin, he would be consistently doing something.

I would certainly agree that Dori is not as bad as some people have said he is. But would it really be game-breaking if his ability either a) could be applied as a response after a shadow was revealed, b) could be applied to allies as well as heroes, or c) applied the bonus until the end of the phase instead of just for one attack? Maybe all three of those at once would be a bit much, but one or two of them I think would still be fine, and make him much more usable.

... I take a lot of hits right in the Gloin.

Top quality pun right there.

I think Dori is meant to combo with cards like stand your ground and hour of wrath. I just agree that it's just not good enough. Maybe he is better than Thalin and you MUST have a red dwarf, but other than that very narrow situation I would use almost any other hero instead.

Dori is pretty terrible. There's not many heroes worse than he is. Consider that he has to exhaust when defenders are declared, meaning you either need readying effects or he doesn't quest. Then, essentially all you're getting for Hero-level stats (not to mention the valuable slot) is a +2 defense boost - which can be accomplished through many other more useful and cheaper means. Durin's Song, Ring Mail, the ever-amazing Arwen. Unless you're super squeezed for deck space, it's almost always worth it to include some of those cards instead of wasting a hero on the off-chance you find yourself defending with a hero you didn't want to and in need of a lifesaving boost.

So .. Dori. He's not terrible.

HERETIC!

Dori is not terrible. But nowdays, when we are looking for heroes to add to our decks, we're aiming for stuff that is not just "not terrible", but usually way above that level.

Dori works between tactics, centinel (for example the 1 cost valour card that ready centinel characters) and dwarf synergies

Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

Not in this case. Caldara was a diamond in a rough. This one here has nothing valuable about it, just a piece of regular rock.

Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

I think the fact people can consistently beat nightmare quests with Caldara decks proves her to be empirically not terrible. It's not a matter of perspective, she clearly brings something to the table which really helps, so long as you make the deck work around her. I would love for someone to prove that Dori isn't terrible in a similar manner, but unless his ability gets errata'd to be a bit more useful or he gets seriously bolstered by other cards being released I don't hold out that much hope for it.

I'll concede that Dori is in the top 3 among tactics dwarf heroes.

We'll just have to see if new cards come out to make him not-a-coaster.

I'll concede that Dori is in the top 3 among tactics dwarf heroes.

I see what you did there.

My first victim of Dori: Daechanar, defending him (when no chump blockers were ready) with Erk (+dunedain warning) + Dori (readying them with Hold your Ground). Daechaner attacked up to 6 (cause of 2 sorceries were in play). Who will be the next? Let's see!!! ^^.

PD: playing in Dread Realm, as you can see. / In 4 players: we won finally.

Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

Not in this case. Caldara was a diamond in a rough. This one here has nothing valuable about it, just a piece of regular rock.

My point was that I thought Caldara was poor, and other people saw a use. I'm still not overwhelmed by Caldara decks as a concept, but they work. Just because you don't see potential, doesn't mean someone else won't. How many people looked at Love of Tales and filed it as chaff?

So Dori + elledan + elhrohir.

Straight away Elrohir can defend for 5 multiple times, no cards required.

Obviously any quest with a smaller number of large enemies would benefit from this, pity it can't go onto the Beorn hero.

If you unexpected courage can you add Dories defense twice?

Boromir tactics hero could use the +2 defense multiple times.

So there are ways of using him if you build for it. Its all very nice saying that you can use Durin's Song, Ring Mail, the ever-amazing Arwen etc, but you need to have a deck with that sphere, and draw the card, and have the resources to play it.

Definitely be a better hero in multiplayer, but you can say that for any with ranged or sentinel.

Personally I've always thought of Caldara as a terrible hero. But plenty of people use her. Different people see different value in cards. Isn't that the point of a game like this?

Not in this case. Caldara was a diamond in a rough. This one here has nothing valuable about it, just a piece of regular rock.

Honsetly I don't find Dori particularly inspiring either, but I don't share the overwhelming opinion on these boards that's he's a coaster, as I said in my first reply to this thread.

My point was that I thought Caldara was poor, and other people saw a use. I'm still not overwhelmed by Caldara decks as a concept, but they work. Just because you don't see potential, doesn't mean someone else won't. How many people looked at Love of Tales and filed it as chaff?

Caldara + Arwen hero + sword thain gives you 3 allies for the sacking of caldera. Arwen helps bin cards and get the extra resources.

Bring out Pelargir Shipwright's who quest for 4 . Emery and bilbo as cheap unique allies.

So Dori + elledan + elhrohir.

Straight away Elrohir can defend for 5 multiple times, no cards required.

Nope. Dori gives +2 def for single attack, not until the end of the phase.

So Dori + elledan + elhrohir.

Straight away Elrohir can defend for 5 multiple times, no cards required.

Obviously any quest with a smaller number of large enemies would benefit from this, pity it can't go onto the Beorn hero.

If you unexpected courage can you add Dories defense twice?

Boromir tactics hero could use the +2 defense multiple times.

So there are ways of using him if you build for it. Its all very nice saying that you can use Durin's Song, Ring Mail, the ever-amazing Arwen etc, but you need to have a deck with that sphere, and draw the card, and have the resources to play it.

Definitely be a better hero in multiplayer, but you can say that for any with ranged or sentinel.

Yeah nothing you mentioned here works since Dori's effect is only for a single attack. It's also a response, so you can't use UC you ready him and stack his ability for a big attack.

Despite this, there are niche uses... like Dori+Beregond+Gondorian shield lets you take huge hits from Smaug in Battle for Lake Town on turn 1 and can really shine there. But as for a hero you would take up against an ordinary quest? I think not. Even if you are successful, you haven't proven that he's better than pretty much any other hero you could have brought.