So I had an idea today about a different way to use Avenger on the ISD.

What about, instead of using Overload Pulse, why not try Squadrons and bombers?

Interesting, I ran it for the first time today. My overload pulse raider got destroyed second turn, and some bad rolls and maneuvers kept Avenger out for a while, but my TIEs and Boba Fett did do what you are suggesting. In fact, most of my ship kills came from squadrons. The dice were unforgiving today.

just activate avenger last, damned if they use their tokens, damned if they dont

It would sort of work in reverse I think.

The threat of Avenger would maximise the squadron damage because the target ship would need to keep all its tokens "green".

Tried it extensively initially.

Its hard to get the brace to be used!

That's why I would combine with Demolisher. Putting that much damage on a target forces a really tough choice - do I brace the black dice from the Glad, or keep back my tokens for a barrage from Avenger?

If you can double arc with Avenger too that can be nice.

That's why I would combine with Demolisher. Putting that much damage on a target forces a really tough choice - do I brace the black dice from the Glad, or keep back my tokens for a barrage from Avenger?

If you can double arc with Avenger too that can be nice.

Is demolisher getting much use in wave two ? my thought is that a 400 point wave two list pushes out to much damage to use demolisher as a key offensive piece (decked out he's a bit to expensive to use as a one arc shot disposable unit) I can see him supporting as a chase unit but not getting in the thick of it as in wave one.

Demolisher is even better in wave 2. APT and Ordnance Expert. Ozzel is great for it as well. A token drops into into the right speed to stay close and not overshoot like it could do.

And can confirm this is a good use. Squad heavy meta in which a 2 ISD list with firesprays take down first place. Got to use redirect vs Bombers, maybe even a brace vs Crit/hit. Now Avenger shoots. Or you don't use the tokens to wait for the big shot. That's equally bad.

Don't forget Avenger stops squadrons using tokens so the point defence is pretty savage when supporting your own squads.

Thanks trizzo, I've not had to play against a demolisher in wave two yet ( it was the bane of my life in wave one) as my regular apponents seem to have dropped it. I will keep what you said in mind for the next tournament I go to.... I case I have to face one.

Thanks trizzo, I've not had to play against a demolisher in wave two yet ( it was the bane of my life in wave one) as my regular apponents seem to have dropped it. I will keep what you said in mind for the next tournament I go to.... I case I have to face one.

I suspect our area running Glad is (part of) why Akbar is non existent. An engine tech glad intercepts the conga line very easily. The front arcs don't do much vs Glad. Or APT vs 4 hull ships?

I have driven up to an Mc80. It goes ram, ram, demolisher, crit. Nex turn. Shoot/crit, shoot/crit, ram, ram. Even non Motti is still alive and they might ram me in their turn! I will take the eventual trade because the points favour me.

Against ISD I think it is going to turn/trend left or right. I deploy on the same side they turn point or they plan on turning (if they deploying pointing their left, i deploy left of it). That way when they commit to the turn i drive into side arc or around.

So still beware first player glads!

Like Irokenics said, the hardest part with squadrons is to get him to use the Brace. Even bacl dice only have a 25% chance to get a hit/crit... You're going to get him to burn a few redirects though.

The Avenger is hard to use because it's a ship you want to activate last (or at least second). It gives plenty of opportunity for the enemy to evade the optimal range. I like the idea of a Demolisher with Intel Officer and ACM in a Screed list. Target the opponent's Brace with Intel on a punishing Broadside, deal 2 extra damage to the side shields to make the redirects less potent. Then follow up with an Avenger and Heavy Turbolaser turrets.

Compliment with super damage dealers ala gsds or even a raider

Never needed OLP to make it an awesome title

So I had an idea today about a different way to use Avenger on the ISD.

What about, instead of using Overload Pulse, why not try Squadrons and bombers?

Funny you should mention that, I started thinking that way last week after watching how willing people can be to use their defence tokens if you launch a solid group of bombers. If the Avenger it what you're using to activate the bombers then it gets around the usual drawback that the ISD is often something you want to activate first while it still has a shot. Even if they don't use the Brace against your squads you should be able to either force damage through or make them redirect against the bombers, and if you've got Intel Officer you then narrow down their options even more.

I usually Run Avenger with XX-9's and no OP, It will be supported by an OP VSD and fighters/bombers

I think the best use of Avenger is when paired with a Demolisher Gladiator. They're one of the only ones capable of pulling out that Brace by itself, most likely than not going first in the player turn, before your Avenger fires.

Forcing the brace is not always the goal though. If you are not using XI7 Turbolasers, forcing the redirects can be just as important. From there, you are likely getting an accuracy and thus can hunt anything that does not have access or has ECM's.

Nah, I'm with the camp that forcing the Brace is almost always the goal

Nah, I'm with the camp that forcing the Brace is almost always the goal

Nah, I'm with the camp that forcing the Brace is almost always the goal

seems like a narrow way to look at things.

Oh?

>Redirects are much weaker than Brace.

>Squadrons might draw some Redirects, and very rarely the Brace if Avenger hasn't activated yet.

>A Demolisher will 9/10 draw the Brace.

Therefore, the Demolisher is much better at drawing the most powerful defensive ability in the game so the Avenger can fire for full effect. Even more so with XI7s.

A fairly narrow answer? Yes. But sometimes narrow is exactly what you need for a good solution.

Only 5 ships have access to Electronic Countermeasures. That means the Accuracy will hit almost every ship you will face, it also helps if you are using another ship like Demolisher to bring the pain required to force the brace. Squadrons can do this as well but as stated they are not exceptional at it

i find the best way to use Avenger is to take another ISD 2 with OLP, then slap SW-7 on Avenger with XX-9 and just reek havoc.

i find the best way to use Avenger is to take another ISD 2 with OLP, then slap SW-7 on Avenger with XX-9 and just reek havoc.

Lyraeus my man, you are definitely on to something with this idea

I flew my first Star Destroyer today (ISD I variant with Devastator) and I came to realize that while many (and I previously) thought that I variants of either the VSD or the ISD were more efficient as carriers due to their short range, after that game I actually think that this is the other way around since that game.

Actually, to mitigate my statement, I think that regardless of the number of the variant, both ISD and VSD should be played as both a ship-to-ship and carrier ships. But, I now feel that the I variants should focus more on ship to ship through Navigate (because they usually need that extra yaw to bring their weapons to bear, especially on a circling fleet) and though Engineering (because they're more susceptible to being double arced being at such close range) and yet be able to activate the squadrons when needed, and the II variants should focus on squadrons because they'll require less Navigate Commands to put in position (due to longer range) and will be a tad less likely to get double arced (because at medium range the perimeter of each arc is much larger, allowing to fit more of the base within a single arc) so they'll need less Engineering.

I really think you're on to something with the Avenger managing a Bomber Wing. Even if we're not talking about Firesprays or Rhymer, just throwing 4 black dice is throwing 4 damage at a facing. While he might not Brace for most of them, he'll either take them on the facing or redirect, and in this case both work at your advantage :

1) He doesn't redirect to keep it for your salvo, great he has 4 less shields to tank with so its redirect will be 4 damage less efficient. With an average of 6 damage from the front arc at medium range, he'll have to redirect 3 (after he kicked the Brace), leaving 2 hull zones depleted of shields.

2) He redirects a few : he can't redirect anymore so you're still pushing damage through to the hull.

So, yeah, you've got a good idea here

Nah, I'm with the camp that forcing the Brace is almost always the goal

seems like a narrow way to look at things.

Oh?

>Redirects are much weaker than Brace.

>Squadrons might draw some Redirects, and very rarely the Brace if Avenger hasn't activated yet.

>A Demolisher will 9/10 draw the Brace.

Therefore, the Demolisher is much better at drawing the most powerful defensive ability in the game so the Avenger can fire for full effect. Even more so with XI7s.

A fairly narrow answer? Yes. But sometimes narrow is exactly what you need for a good solution.

Redirects can mitigate far more damage to the hull than Brace unless the attacker is using XI-7 Turbolasers.

Nah, I'm with the camp that forcing the Brace is almost always the goal

seems like a narrow way to look at things.

Oh?

>Redirects are much weaker than Brace.

>Squadrons might draw some Redirects, and very rarely the Brace if Avenger hasn't activated yet.

>A Demolisher will 9/10 draw the Brace.

Therefore, the Demolisher is much better at drawing the most powerful defensive ability in the game so the Avenger can fire for full effect. Even more so with XI7s.

A fairly narrow answer? Yes. But sometimes narrow is exactly what you need for a good solution.

Redirects can mitigate far more damage to the hull than Brace unless the attacker is using XI-7 Turbolasers.

Had this discussion ad nauseum with Tvayumat, comparing the two (specifically on the Raider vs the CR90), and came away with the conclusion that it's very situational which is better.

- The CR90's redirect means it's one-shottable with 8 damage; the Raider's brace means it takes 12.

- The CR90 can weather 2x 3-damage shots into the same hull zone without taking a hull damage (and therefore a crit)... as long as that hull zone is the front. The Raider can only withstand 2x2 before taking hull... but doing so doesn't weaken other zones, and it doesn't matter which zone.

- The CR90's redirect is still effective at mitigating single shots from squadrons; the Raider's brace does nothing for 1-damage shots.

- The CR90's redirect can be almost completely negated by XI7. There is no such upgrade for attacking brace that is not equally effective against redirect (IO, Home One). HTT vs brace isn't even in the same league as XI7 vs redirect, especially against the corvettes.

This is pretty specific to the CR90 vs Raider, but illustrates the fact that it's pretty hard to say one is better than the other. But generally speaking, brace is better over the long term, redirect is better for staying alive short term... in the absence of ridiculously overpowered hard-counter upgrade cards in the meta.