How does Elwing's Flight work, if you can only ready one character but you have a copy of Elwing's Flight in your discard pile?

Presumably you can target a ready character with Elwing's Flight, as long as it's a questing character. The character would get +1 [W] for every time it got targeted.

It depends whether saying "Do X and Y" means that X and Y are two separate effects which happen to the same target (in which case you can target the willpower boost on a ready character) or intrinsically linked to each other to essentially be one effect that does two things (in which case you can't, it's all or nothing).

(1.15) The word “then” If a card effect uses the word “then,” then the preceding effect must resolve successfully for the subsequent dependent effect to resolve.

I think that since this is "and" you don't have to successfully ready a character to give them the +1 will. If it said "Ready them then give them +1 will" they would have to be exhausted for it to work.

The text in parentheses seems to indicate that you can choose the same target.

Also, shosuko is correct about the word "and". It has been previously ruled that We Are Not Idle can still be used even when your deck is empty.

Mmm.. ok, so if i can choose a ready character to ready him and give him +1 willpower, can i choose the same character with this card?

Or... do we have the same effect here like Flame of Arnor?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/175430-poisoned-counselsgandalfhobbit-pipes/?hl=%2Bflame+%2Banor

To be honest I wasn't aware of the Flame of Anor ruling, and now I am aware of it I'm going to ignore it anyway.

To be honest I wasn't aware of the Flame of Anor ruling, and now I am aware of it I'm going to ignore it anyway.

A couple things:

1) The Flame of Anor ruling doesn't really come into play unless you are trying to do a double or triple Flame of Anor on a single attack, since you can always play it after the Istari exhausts to attack but before the attack resolves.

2) The fact that ready characters can't ready is pretty important. If it were not the case, Silvan tracker would heal 1 damage on every silvan in play each turn regardless of their state.

3) Flame of Anor is worded "discard the top card of your deck to ready an Istari character". The phrase after the "to" must be able to happen in order for you to pay the cost for it. If you allow Flame of Anor to work on ready Istari, you end up with other strange situations, where Boromir with Elf-friend pays 3 threat to ready himself (despite already being ready) in the refresh phase to fully heal himself with the help of Silvan tracker. Or you could have Treebeard ally who has stacked up a pile of resources paying to ready a Wellinghall Preserver 4 times in a row to completely heal himself. Or you could play Tale of Tinuviel despite not having any Dunedain characters, just in order to trigger Love of Tales.

I'm quite comfortable with "ready a character" being an effect that can target a ready character and do nothing. I don't really know why.

If you can pay costs for non-existent effects it breaks a lot more things.

If Haunted Valley enters the staging area, but I want to have access to my spirit resources during the combat phase, can I choose to just exhaust Fatty and name a non existent enemy?

If I have Steed of Imladris on a hero, can I decide to discard my Lords of The Eldar even if there is no active location?

If Fallen Stones is in the staging area and I want to travel there, but it would kill my Errand-Riders , can I just decide to exhaust all my Errand Riders even if I don't have any resources to move?

If there are no enemies in play, can I exhaust Haldir and name a non-existent enemy, so that he can get healed by Silvan Tracker in the refresh phase?

I am pretty sure the answer to all of these questions is "no". The developers did not intend for costs to be able to be paid this way.

So .. Back to my question ... what happens if i can't fullfill more than one of Elwing's Flight-effects but have a second copy in my discard pile?

If you can pay costs for non-existent effects it breaks a lot more things.

If Haunted Valley enters the staging area, but I want to have access to my spirit resources during the combat phase, can I choose to just exhaust Fatty and name a non existent enemy?

If I have Steed of Imladris on a hero, can I decide to discard my Lords of The Eldar even if there is no active location?

If Fallen Stones is in the staging area and I want to travel there, but it would kill my Errand-Riders , can I just decide to exhaust all my Errand Riders even if I don't have any resources to move?

If Mithril Seeker is going to attack me, can I spend all my money playing a few copies of Ancestral Knowledge , even though there is no active location, just so that the Goblin Seeker doesn't get to take any resources?

If there are no enemies in play, can I exhaust Haldir and name a non-existent enemy, so that he can get healed by Silvan Tracker in the refresh phase?

I am pretty sure the answer to all of these questions is "no". The developers did not intend for costs to be able to be paid this way.

That's not what I said. It's the particular case of "ready a character" that I am happy to be an effect that does nothing (distinct from an effect that can't resolve).

For instance, the effect on Lure of Moria clearly can resolve even if all dwarf characters are not exhausted.

My opinion doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's probably based on too much Magic.

That's not what I said. It's the particular case of "ready a character" that I am happy to be an effect that does nothing (distinct from an effect that can't resolve).

For instance, the effect on Lure of Moria clearly can resolve even if all dwarf characters are not exhausted.

Mmm.. seems legit. Lure of Moria is a neat example, but i think to play Lure of Moria there must at least one exhausted dwarf character.

I guess things like Lure of Moria with "all" characters are interpreted as not being a single effect but rather a collection of effects and so follow the We Are Not Idle rule of "you can resolve the ones you can resolve and ignore the ones you can't". This is why I'd imagine that Elwing's Flight can be used on the same character several times.

@NathanH: I'm with you .. Without this opportunity Elwing's Flight and all other possible cards like this will not played very often.

Beside this discussion .. a simple question:

how many characters can i choose with Elwing's Flight if my three copies are in the discard pile and i use Map of Earnil to play it?

my first thought was 4 .. but i think it's 3 because you play one copy out of the discard pile right on the table, then check your discard pile .. 2 copies left.

Yeah, I would only resolve three of them.

I would say four. I don't actually recall a ruling, but I don't feel like an event is technically considered to go anywhere when you play it until it's discarded. You probably move it to the table for clarity and so other players can see what you're doing, but I don't think the game considers it to have left your hand until you finish resolving and discard it. So similarly with Map of Earnil it would technically still be in your discard pile while you're resolving the effect.

Events you're playing from your hand must surely not be in your hand while you're playing them (else you could discard Daeron's Runes to itself, for instance) so I would have thought that events being played from the discard pile have to go "somewhere else" while being played too. But I have never really understand the exact timings with moving events around, and we tend to be rather relaxed about it (for example, we leave Feint on the board until the end of the combat phase in most cases, and don't worry that this slightly gets our discard piles in the wrong order).

@PocketWraith: NathanH gives a good example with Daeron's Runes. With your intepretation i can discard Daeron's Runes for its effect?

So... can you declare an attack with 2 heroes, even if one of that 2 heroes isn't needed for the attack? Example : you declare tactics Marry and tactics Aragorn to destroy an enemy with 1 defense and 2 hit points just to involve Merry in the attack to ready Aragorn again?

So... can you declare an attack with 2 heroes, even if one of that 2 heroes isn't needed for the attack? Example : you declare tactics Marry and tactics Aragorn to destroy an enemy with 1 defense and 2 hit points just to involve Merry in the attack to ready Aragorn again?

I think the way Flames of Anos is rule is because it says you ready an istari character.. and give THAT characters the bonus.

This means that you have to successfully ready an istari character in order to then target them for the bonus. If you don't ready an istari (you cannot ready a character that is already ready) then you cannot give the istari you readied a bonus. It's not a single "ready and give bonus" but it's broken down into two parts. 1st part - ready a character. Stop. 2nd part - the character you readied gets bonus attack.

Compared to Elwing's Flight where it is a single sentence "ready a questing character and give them +1 will." So for this they only have to be questing.

I guess things like Lure of Moria with "all" characters are interpreted as not being a single effect but rather a collection of effects and so follow the We Are Not Idle rule of "you can resolve the ones you can resolve and ignore the ones you can't". This is why I'd imagine that Elwing's Flight can be used on the same character several times.

Lure of Moria does still have an effect even if you have no Dwarf Characters. It resolves by readying 0 characters. It may seem odd, but they've ruled that "all" can be 0 before. But if the card said "Ready a Dwarf character" and you had no Dwarves, you couldn't play it, because "a" cannot be 0.

Beside this discussion .. a simple question:

how many characters can i choose with Elwing's Flight if my three copies are in the discard pile and i use Map of Earnil to play it?

my first thought was 4 .. but i think it's 3 because you play one copy out of the discard pile right on the table, then check your discard pile .. 2 copies left.

I would say 4 as well. This is a ruling from Caleb on whether you have to pay extra for recalling an event with a Record if Heavy Curse is in play:

To play an event, you must first pay its cost. Tome of Atanatar allows you to play an event in your discard pile “as if it were in your hand” but it is not actually in your hand. It is still in the discard pile at the time you must pay its cost, so Heavy Curse would increase its cost.

Now, he does't go on to specify where the event card is when you are resolving its effects, but without some indication that it gets put into some sort of limbo mode, I would assume it's still in your discard.

no way to delete a post eh?