I'd just remove the vt-49 and yt-1300 from the game

the PWT is the least inspiring and the absolute laziest bit of game design I have ever come across, and I've played 40k

but, since TLTs and necessary mov scoring changes have basically already done this, the game is just about perfect

A turret penalty might have been useful: you can shoot outside your normal arc, but treat all shots as range 3 (applies to secondary weapons as well).

I've played a metric crap ton of miniatures games, tabletop games, board games and rpgs over the last couple of decades, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the X-Wing Miniatures Game is the best I've ever played.

Simple rules with surprising depth. Room for strategy and tactics during the game and outside of list building. Easy to pick up, difficult to master, extremely well balanced, rewards skillful play but luck can still cause surprises, fast paced standard play but can be increased in scale for longer games...

...nothing else even comes close. To say the game wouldn't have survived past 2012 without the Star Wars branding is literally the most ridiculous (and factually incorrect) thing I've ever seen posted on these forums. It wouldn't have caught on anywhere near as quickly as it has, that much is true, but it would still have been quietly gathering a solid and loyal fan base. True quality always does.

40k is a good example of a terribly designed game. Rick Priestly came up with a fantastic universe of Grim Dark. But the actual game has always been awful ever since Rogue Trader 2nd 3rd etc up to its current incarnation of rules bloat and unbalanced factions.

Fantasy Flight Please do not ever turn this fantastic game into garbage like 40k.

The simplicity and asbtract nature of the the game is the draw for me honestly.

One other thing I'd change would be to release upgrade card packs not tied to a particular ship.

1. You should roll to hit, then roll damage.

For ordnance, yes. For guns, no.

I've played a metric crap ton of miniatures games, tabletop games, board games and rpgs over the last couple of decades, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the X-Wing Miniatures Game is the best I've ever played.

Simple rules with surprising depth. Room for strategy and tactics during the game and outside of list building. Easy to pick up, difficult to master, extremely well balanced, rewards skillful play but luck can still cause surprises, fast paced standard play but can be increased in scale for longer games...

...nothing else even comes close. To say the game wouldn't have survived past 2012 without the Star Wars branding is literally the most ridiculous (and factually incorrect) thing I've ever seen posted on these forums. It wouldn't have caught on anywhere near as quickly as it has, that much is true, but it would still have been quietly gathering a solid and loyal fan base. True quality always does.

To be fair, there are a lot of ways the game could be improved. I think if there was one major change, it would be using the different dice-type mechanism that's there in Armada/IA. Just have ships throw different kinds of dice as well as different amounts- maybe let that be a way to differentiate ordnance.

I've played a metric crap ton of miniatures games, tabletop games, board games and rpgs over the last couple of decades, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the X-Wing Miniatures Game is the best I've ever played.

Simple rules with surprising depth. Room for strategy and tactics during the game and outside of list building. Easy to pick up, difficult to master, extremely well balanced, rewards skillful play but luck can still cause surprises, fast paced standard play but can be increased in scale for longer games...

...nothing else even comes close. To say the game wouldn't have survived past 2012 without the Star Wars branding is literally the most ridiculous (and factually incorrect) thing I've ever seen posted on these forums. It wouldn't have caught on anywhere near as quickly as it has, that much is true, but it would still have been quietly gathering a solid and loyal fan base. True quality always does.

Different strokes for different folks. Your requirements for what constitutes a good game must be A) very constant and B) all over the place though, because firstly I don't know how you get X Wing to simulate the battle of Cannae, but I find it totally useless for playing mass battles in the ancient world. Also I've not had great results when I use it to play ground skirmish games set in medieval cities.

By which I mean (of course) that saying '...nothing else even comes close' is asinine. All rule systems do different things, as I know you're aware, and they achieve different results in different ways. One could reasonably say X Wing is their favourite flight simulator game, but there's not a lot of competition in that market. One could even say it's their favourite game over all.

But the hyperbole reaches critical mass when people say it's just the best game ever.

And as for B), well, I don't know how anyone can think X Wing is the best game they ever played. There are GLARING problems with the rules, with the design philosophy, with the release methods, etc. There are other games that I vastly prefer, and consider to be better games than X Wing.

I don't hate X Wing. I don't even dislike it. It's a good game with a solid rule system.

But it's not the best game ever, not by any metric you care to choose, and there is DEFINITELY a lot of room for improvement! If only the game wasn't so... FFG!

Uh, Wings of War (The system FFG based the game on) is over a decade old and is still being produced. There are differences, mind you, but the spirit of the game is the same.

So I'd say you're wrong on that account.

Fair play. I can't comment as the to the differences in the rules, but I think the fact that Wings of War is no-where near as popular as X Wing says volumes about the draw of the mechanics vs the draw of the brand.

if it were just a star wars game without stupidly good mechanics, it'd have been forgotten in 2012 for the next big thing, whatever that is we're swimming in star wars merchandise, but there is only one X-wing miniatures

If it were just the mechanics without Star Wars, it'd never have made it to the end of 2012 without being discontinued.

Uh, Wings of War (The system FFG bases the game on) is over a decade old and is still being produced. There are differences, mind you, but the spirit of the game is the same.

not to mention we have plenty of popular miniatures games without the star wars license running around, and all the non-GW ones have really solid mechanics

some people love to put too much emphasis on the license without crediting the meat of the game, i.e the actual gameplay, which makes me glad they're not on the design team

people will buy any garbage with a star wars brand on it

but it's the stuff that's simply excellent in its own regard that will stick around

Wtf is that? ^^^

Never... Ever...Even joke about making this game have mechanics like 40k. That dice ridden throw up fest of rolling 50+ dice to see that, "oh one lascannon did a glancing blow!" bit is so stupid. Main reason I never took interest in warhammer. Way too much dice, way too much luck involved. And the movement? I've seen way to many people start yelling about how the person didn't move correctly in that game, so no, keep that disease ridden filth from this game.

If you honestly couldn't fly a interceptor before AT against PWT, you are far from knowing how to fly them. AT made them more forgiving, thus easier, but they were always a presence on the field... If you knew how to fly them. It was never luck, though it helped. Interceptors, and now phantoms, are very skill dependant, which is why I will always have a soft spot for them in my lists.

Threads like this always make me cringe and make me realize how much effort and how great the developers have progressed the game. Cause most of this is just bonkers or whining that my favorite ship isn't the top dog.

The only think I would like? As someone else has posted, ordinance reaching out a bit further than the standard 1-3 , but then you would have to allow TLs out that far, and then you start getting issues with balance from ships that can target lock way before combat range. Opens a whole new can of worms.

Edit: I take that back, one thing that might be a nessassity now. Because of the amount of upgrades, possibly make those into a book, as long as you have a single copy you could build a list with multiple into it. How the release structure is now, I have no problem with, but to a new player it can be a bit daunting.

Never... Ever...Even joke about making this game have mechanics like 40k. That dice ridden throw up fest of rolling 50+ dice to see that, "oh one lascannon did a glancing blow!" bit is so stupid. Main reason I never took interest in warhammer. Way too much dice, way too much luck involved.

First of all, why do people keep bringing up 40K? Is that the only other wargame people are familiar with? Broaden your horizons!

Secondly, the more dice you throw the less luck will affect you, since the dice results will be closer to expected averages. It's another reason why the low numbers of dice thrown in X Wing is a bad design choice. Less dice = more luck, more dice = less luck.

"The shields of Huge Ships deduct two points of damage from everything except ordnance and non-huge-ship beam weapons."

Ordnance has a purpose now and huge ships can (still) use the buff.

This is no "ordnance fix" because you can't fix ordnance without breaking the game. X-Wing is WWII dogfight, which is exciting, not modern area "fire from 30 km away and forget" jet fight, which is extremely boring.

Besides, even Luke would have been puzzled if anyone suggested to him firing a proton torpedo at a tie fighter.

Never... Ever...Even joke about making this game have mechanics like 40k. That dice ridden throw up fest of rolling 50+ dice to see that, "oh one lascannon did a glancing blow!" bit is so stupid. Main reason I never took interest in warhammer. Way too much dice, way too much luck involved.

First of all, why do people keep bringing up 40K? Is that the only other wargame people are familiar with? Broaden your horizons!

Secondly, the more dice you throw the less luck will affect you, since the dice results will be closer to expected averages. It's another reason why the low numbers of dice thrown in X Wing is a bad design choice. Less dice = more luck, more dice = less luck.

maybe his butt is still ablaze after years of 40k

mine cooled only after a year off the GW wargames.

Never... Ever...Even joke about making this game have mechanics like 40k. That dice ridden throw up fest of rolling 50+ dice to see that, "oh one lascannon did a glancing blow!" bit is so stupid. Main reason I never took interest in warhammer. Way too much dice, way too much luck involved.

First of all, why do people keep bringing up 40K? Is that the only other wargame people are familiar with? Broaden your horizons!Secondly, the more dice you throw the less luck will affect you, since the dice results will be closer to expected averages. It's another reason why the low numbers of dice thrown in X Wing is a bad design choice. Less dice = more luck, more dice = less luck.

I have experience with a lot of tabletop minatures and now I'm onto X-wing, why? Cause the mechanics for the rest lack more then X-wing. Is it perfect, hell no, but its much more enjoyable. And you are telling me the averages are more in line? Yeah, that's not even true with the amount you roll in any game, unless you are rolling thousands, which, are you? Not only that but the to hit, then damage type mechanics prevalent in many games just adds much unneeded complicatation. More then what a fast pace game like X-wing needs.

Secondly, the more dice you throw the less luck will affect you, since the dice results will be closer to expected averages. It's another reason why the low numbers of dice thrown in X Wing is a bad design choice. Less dice = more luck, more dice = less luck.

b) "More luck" isn't a synonym for "bad design". X-Wing's not a chit-pushing historical simulation. Its swinginess is a feature, not a bug.

I have experience with a lot of tabletop minatures and now I'm onto X-wing, why? Cause the mechanics for the rest lack more then X-wing. Is it perfect, hell no, but its much more enjoyable. And you are telling me the averages are more in line? Yeah, that's not even true with the amount you roll in any game, unless you are rolling thousands, which, are you? Not only that but the to hit, then damage type mechanics prevalent in many games just adds much unneeded complicatation. More then what a fast pace game like X-wing needs.

Like poker, X-Wing is a game of short-term luck and long-term skill.

Secondly, the more dice you throw the less luck will affect you, since the dice results will be closer to expected averages. It's another reason why the low numbers of dice thrown in X Wing is a bad design choice. Less dice = more luck, more dice = less luck.

a) And yet the same dude has won Worlds three years running. What, is pheaver the luckiest guy in America?

b) "More luck" isn't a synonym for "bad design". X-Wing's not a chit-pushing historical simulation. Its swinginess is a feature, not a bug.

Nope, PHeaver is the owner of the greatest eye distance meter in the galaxy.

And a man who feels the flows of meta, finding the most point-efficient meta-snapping build every time

luck is a synonym of bad design.

Dice ran cold? Off you go. Dice rock? No need to worry.

That's why the best defense so far is NOT throwing dice at all, also known as "Arc dodging"

but X-wing has THE ADVANTAGE no wargame I've played before it had

it requires you to use PRECOGNITION.

you don't operate exact knowledge of enemy position the moment you set your dial.

I have experience with a lot of tabletop minatures and now I'm onto X-wing, why? Cause the mechanics for the rest lack more then X-wing. Is it perfect, hell no, but its much more enjoyable. And you are telling me the averages are more in line? Yeah, that's not even true with the amount you roll in any game, unless you are rolling thousands, which, are you? Not only that but the to hit, then damage type mechanics prevalent in many games just adds much unneeded complicatation. More then what a fast pace game like X-wing needs.

To be fair, the statement that the more dice you roll the less swingy the results will tend to be is completely accurate.

Like poker, X-Wing is a game of short-term luck and long-term skill.

That is a great way to describe it!

luck is a synonym of bad design.

Dice ran cold? Off you go. Dice rock? No need to worry.

That's why the best defense so far is NOT throwing dice at all, also known as "Arc dodging"

I'm sure X-Wing could have been designed so that was the case. I'm equally sure it wouldn't be a) anywhere near as popular or b) anywhere near as good.

luck is a synonym of bad design.

Dice ran cold? Off you go. Dice rock? No need to worry.

That's why the best defense so far is NOT throwing dice at all, also known as "Arc dodging"

That's working on the presumption that it's inherently and inarguably bad game design if the best player doesn't win every game.

I'm sure X-Wing could have been designed so that was the case. I'm equally sure it wouldn't be a) anywhere near as popular or b) anywhere near as good.

best players don't leave home without means of modifying dice rolls.

x wing in my honest opinion is a bit too vague.

if there were generally more dice-hulls per ship the statistics would be a bit steeper

and there would be slight differences.

where x wing has 5 dice, defender has 6 dice, mangler has 7 dice, phantom has 8 dice and HLK has 9 (simply an example)

making ship stats more diverse. instead of the current "it's 3 dice in general, with some having 2 and very rarely someone having "

same can be said about point costs.

instead of 1-2-3 point upgrades there would be 1-2-3-4-5-6 cost upgrades, and suddenly there is a difference between a 1-point adrenalin rush and 2 point veteran

b) "More luck" isn't a synonym for "bad design". X-Wing's not a chit-pushing historical simulation. Its swinginess is a feature, not a bug.

I didn't say more luck = bad design.

I was responding directly to the assertion that 40K was bad because it had too many dice, and was therefore too dependent on luck, and therefore a bad game.

If anything, X Wing has more of a problem with luck since a roll that deviates from the average by even one or two can totally spoil your day. NOT THAT THIS IS A BAD THING! I love the vagaries of the dice, I just wish there weren't so many of them all the time!

If anything, X Wing has more of a problem with luck since a roll that deviates from the average by even one or two can totally spoil your day. NOT THAT THIS IS A BAD THING! I love the vagaries of the dice, I just wish there weren't so many of them all the time!

Then might I suggest switching to a LCG? Much less variance, but still get that random factor. No dice involved!

If anything, X Wing has more of a problem with luck since a roll that deviates from the average by even one or two can totally spoil your day. NOT THAT THIS IS A BAD THING! I love the vagaries of the dice, I just wish there weren't so many of them all the time!

Then might I suggest switching to a LCG? Much less variance, but still get that random factor. No dice involved!

Ew, no, card games are for nerds.

Now, where did I leave my toy spaceship?

I've played a metric crap ton of miniatures games, tabletop games, board games and rpgs over the last couple of decades, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that the X-Wing Miniatures Game is the best I've ever played.

Simple rules with surprising depth. Room for strategy and tactics during the game and outside of list building. Easy to pick up, difficult to master, extremely well balanced, rewards skillful play but luck can still cause surprises, fast paced standard play but can be increased in scale for longer games...

...nothing else even comes close. To say the game wouldn't have survived past 2012 without the Star Wars branding is literally the most ridiculous (and factually incorrect) thing I've ever seen posted on these forums. It wouldn't have caught on anywhere near as quickly as it has, that much is true, but it would still have been quietly gathering a solid and loyal fan base. True quality always does.

Different strokes for different folks. Your requirements for what constitutes a good game must be A) very constant and B) all over the place though, because firstly I don't know how you get X Wing to simulate the battle of Cannae, but I find it totally useless for playing mass battles in the ancient world. Also I've not had great results when I use it to play ground skirmish games set in medieval cities.

By which I mean (of course) that saying '...nothing else even comes close' is asinine. All rule systems do different things, as I know you're aware, and they achieve different results in different ways. One could reasonably say X Wing is their favourite flight simulator game, but there's not a lot of competition in that market. One could even say it's their favourite game over all.

But the hyperbole reaches critical mass when people say it's just the best game ever.

And as for B), well, I don't know how anyone can think X Wing is the best game they ever played. There are GLARING problems with the rules, with the design philosophy, with the release methods, etc. There are other games that I vastly prefer, and consider to be better games than X Wing.

I don't hate X Wing. I don't even dislike it. It's a good game with a solid rule system.

But it's not the best game ever, not by any metric you care to choose, and there is DEFINITELY a lot of room for improvement! If only the game wasn't so... FFG!

That's an awful lot of claptrap you just wrote Chuck; exquisitely worded of course, but total and utter claptrap nonetheless. Are you seriously trying to tell me how to express my enjoyment of the games I've played throughout the years?

"How do I get X-Wing to simulate the Battle of Cannae? Mass battle games in the ancient world? Skirmish games in medieval cities" Er, this must come as quite a shock to you, but simply put, I don't. Why would I even want to? And how does that have any bearing on my enjoyment of the game?

Newsflash kiddo - it doesn't have any bearing on my enjoyment of the game at all. Not. One. Bit.

I can quite easily and accurately say I prefer playing X-WIng over Flames of War or Hail Caesar or Warhammer Fantasy Battle or Saga or Medieval Warfare or Risk or Chess or any other game for that matter without requiring that it do any of the things that they purport to do because - get this - enjoyment levels and opinions are subjective.

And in my opinion, X-Wing is quite simply the best tabletop miniatures game ever.

And while we're at it, here's another little tidbit for you - it's not hyperbolic to state that X-Wing is in one's opinion the best game ever, because, again, subjective.

It is however hyperbolic to say that X-Wing wouldn't have survived past 2012 without the Star Wars branding, because that is attempting to state a fact - which would be objective... and wildly inaccurate.

X-wing kind of is a card game... just look at all the timing arguments/inconsistencies...

X-wing kind of is a card game... just look at all the timing arguments/inconsistencies...

It's part of any elaborate and developed game.

Too simple and it's not that interesting and diverse