Oy gevalt! KnasserII vos habn ir getan? Ir hobn gebrakht zvyetrakt tsvishn aundz. Mir zenen ale mshuge!

I'm not going to pretend I'm some angel.

Angels are boring, at this point I'd settle for just some basic human decency.

There's this thing called the Tragedy of the Commons. If you can't reign yourself in, with the feeble excuse of "I was bad before, so what the heck", then you become the embodiment of the phenomenon.

Like I said, I'm not going to feel bad over being bad on a game forum. About half of the people in this thread have at some point been bad. Most days I'm not bad. So it's not like I'm bad all the time. But I'm not going to even remotely pretend that I haven't done my share of contributing to the "bad" that happens here. In my estimate the greater bulk of threads going on, nothing bad his happening. I can't say for sure, as I haven't read the Ep VII Mega thread in a long time. Last I checked it was flaming hell hole. Maybe it's gotten better. Who knows, not me. But overall from all the threads I'm currently reading or posting in, nothing bad is going on.

But Knasser leaving isn't going to change anything. People are going to continue to act the way they currently act. I know that in the future I'm likely to fall into the bad category again. I'm not going to pretend that I won't. I'm not going to put on a fluffy show in which I tell everyone I've seen the light and from here on out I'm a good poster. We all know that's a lie. I'm not going to be good all the time. So I can either lie to you about being good or I can be honest and say "yeah, sometimes I do bad too and contribute to the badness that happens here."

I opted to go with honesty.

You could have opted to make a real effort toward being a "good" poster.

Or everyone could just choose to walk away and let well enough be alone. Seems to me Knasserll was his own worst enemy. He didn't engage in ad hominems but he for sure wouldn't just leave well enough alone and kept going back and forth with people that were. I figure if you stand around in the bar after the brawl breaks out critiquing how everyone else is fightin you aren't entitled to get upset over being punched in the face at some point.

You could have opted to make a real effort toward being a "good" poster.

Most days I am a "good" poster. I'm just not pretending that I'm always a "good" poster or that I'll always be a "good" poster. I'm fully admitting that I have done some bad and I am fully admitting that while I may not set out to do bad that it is likely to occur again.

But most of the people in this thread have been bad. And I fully expect them to be bad again. I do not expect KnasserII leaving is going to inspire a sudden shift in the forum in which we all are good from here on out and there will be no more heated discussions or fights or attacks. Not that I think most of the people who have been bad set out to be bad all the time, but **** happens. What's the point of pretending that any of this is going to change?

Apparently the fact that yesterday was MLK day was lost here. If you want change to happen, you have to work at it. If you say it won't happen and do nothing, then you're part of the problem. Just because there's a trend towards asshattery on the internet doesn't mean that's the way things have to be.

HELLO, everbody! It's been three days; the fish is smelling funny by now.

Move along... move along.

I don't think I've been bad. I know I got frustrated a couple of times at people who seemed to go out of their way to avoid hearing what anyone else had to say. They, I came to learn, were somewhat (in)famous for that.

But being a jerk is just being a jerk. Justifying being a jerk doesn't make anyone less of a jerk. It arguably makes them more of one.

I'm not preaching, though. I get that there are always going to be jerks. I'm not wasting my time trying to change them because I try to deAL with jerks as ltitle as I can. I'm just pointing out what separates people like them from people like me: I prefer the high road. That's it. I don't need to ignore a jerk. I just need to be mindful of who they are and, when they demonstrate their jerkitude, move on.

Ironically, someone necroposted a few days ago and I got to read some posts from people who'd left and I heard one from Maelora and I thought, "Wow, I miss her." And here she turns up in a thread about someone else I'm probably going to be saying, "Wow, I miss him." in a bit of time...

Apparently the fact that yesterday was MLK day was lost here. If you want change to happen, you have to work at it. If you say it won't happen and do nothing, then you're part of the problem. Just because there's a trend towards asshattery on the internet doesn't mean that's the way things have to be.

Who said I wanted change? I see nothing wrong with the forums. Most discussions are civil. Every once in awhile there's a flair up. The flair dies and people go back to talking like normal. This forum isn't that bad. Certainly not bad enough to where I think people need to change.

Also low blow using King to try to win a petty internet fight.

"Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it"

-Tom Lehrer.

Apparently the fact that yesterday was MLK day was lost here. If you want change to happen, you have to work at it. If you say it won't happen and do nothing, then you're part of the problem. Just because there's a trend towards asshattery on the internet doesn't mean that's the way things have to be.

Who said I wanted change? I see nothing wrong with the forums. Most discussions are civil. Every once in awhile there's a flair up. The flair dies and people go back to talking like normal. This forum isn't that bad. Certainly not bad enough to where I think people need to change.

Also low blow using King to try to win a petty internet fight.

I get Kael here. I'd rather have the honesty than the pretentiousness. Not that I get to choose. Nor that these are mutually exclusive... but this thread isn't going to change anything. Everyone who's posted here proves Knasser right for leaving.

There's little as douchey as the holier-than-thou pedagogical treatment from fellow forumites spouting their wisdom and ideals as something to strive towards, so that they can accept you as a "good person" or whatever stamp of approval they're offering, as some sort of condition for ... what? Few things are as shallow and arrogant as that. Condescending doesn't really begin to cover it.

Not that I'm a supporter of the "internet is a license to jackassery" perspective (contrary to what you may believe), but you can't habilitate someone via a forum (you don't know whether they need habilitation or rehabilitation, or if they're just messing with you...) It's just that sometimes people think you're a jackass because you are, and other times because they're over-sensitive, self-absorbed nitwits who thinks everything revolves around them... and their opinions and their feelings. It's like they're entitled to proclaim "jackass" and have the authority to define who's trolling and who's not, because of their feelings (often with attempted more or less rational arguments, but it's usually founded on pathos)... which of course, I guess, is ok, maybe even true, but their sensitivity is no more authentic or valid than mine or my intentions (or anyone else's)... so what then... ? Well, I say, leave your pride at home, climb down from your high horse and join the internet mosh pit, while we dance to our different beats and rhythms. It's ugly, it gets real messy, but we do it - mostly - with the best of intentions, regardless of people's damaged pride. I guess because pride is one of the difficult factors to control for... most people try to hide or deny their pride (or they've given completely into it... same result) people are infallible in their fallibility, but mostly it's people's pride and certainty about that, that's the problem...

Eeeh... anyway, so much to say: I need coffee, the sun just came over the mountains here, I better start doing something that resembles work... and this thread is yet another proof that we're all a bit heavy on the narcissist side of things, writing (more or less) anonymously to other people about other people, trying to convince these unknown people to ... do it my way.

I get Kael here. I'd rather have the honesty than the pretentiousness.

I don't think that honesty and asshattery are synonymous, or that attempting to be civil is pretentious.

Not necessarily no, but easily (and often) yes. It depends on the observer, more so on online forums than in real life, as there are less cues to pick up on here than in face to face interaction.

Honesty is something you choose yourself. "Asshattery" is as often as not a label or judgement made by someone else, regardless of any honesty or lack thereof.

Being civil isn't necessarily pretentious no, but can easily come across as such.

Attempting to be civil is something you choose yourself, whether you succeed or fail is a different matter. Also, pretentiousness is also, most often, a label or judgement made by someone else. Being pretentious is rarely something one chooses, but that doesn't mean one isn't or comes across as pretentious.

EDIT: Also, how one chooses to define "civil" affects how pretentious one can seem. And in this case, define means more how one chooses to apply it to a situation, than someone else's idea of how it should have been applied.

I feel petty, oh so petty! I feel petty and...

Sorry! But, this meaningless thread clawing it's way back to the top every other second just makes me twitchy.

For Force's sake, even Hooly's Dashboard post got fewer replies per day; and that's something useful, actually.

I think we need another update on "Lead By Example" or "Special Modifications" to distract us.

I would prefer something on "Special Modifications" soon. The Besalisk preview image makes me very excited and I would love a confirmation if they'll be in the book.

I think we need another update on "Lead By Example" or "Special Modifications" to distract us.

I would prefer something on "Special Modifications" soon. The Besalisk preview image makes me very excited and I would love a confirmation if they'll be in the book.

Hijacking the thread are we?!!?!?!?!?!

I think we need another update on "Lead By Example" or "Special Modifications" to distract us.

I would prefer something on "Special Modifications" soon. The Besalisk preview image makes me very excited and I would love a confirmation if they'll be in the book.

Hijacking the thread are we?!!?!?!?!?!

I prefer to call it "recycling".

I find it hilarious to see people like Maxkilljoy and Happydaze profile themselves as the yardstick for good and civil forum behaviour in this thread... Come on guys, don't be that guy.

I mean, I like 50% of you and don't mind the other 50 but seriously you are not the ones to play that role and you know it.

This thread should be closed right now. Completely unnecessary.

On that note, I won't be looking at this thread again.

This thread should be closed right now. Completely unnecessary.

This I can agree with.

Also, I am now afraid that my earlier post sounds way meaner then I meant it.

Yeah, it probably does

That only proves my (and many others') point though, if there's a "suitable" reaction to it.

Yeah, it is, as is always seems to be the case, too **** hard to display tongue in cheek humor online...