it is going to be an NPE to some players.

Which is why the people who want it nerfed feel that way. They have no real solid argument to make that it's OP'ed so they fall back on the IMO extremely lame 'it's not fun' argument.

I've run the stresshog a few times in store games now. Rarely has it been able to deal out more than 3 rounds of fire before my opponents have burned it down. It turns a generic list ship into a priority target and while they are focusing fire on it my other ships have carried most of the load dealing damage and out positioning them. Lots of the generics don't care if they get two or even four stress on them beyond the limitation of no red moves and no actions. It's the aces that really suffer from the stresshog and in most of my games the presence of the streehog has caused my opponent to play conservatively with their ace, keeping it back, skirting the edge of combat and sniping from range three, until the stresshog goes down. What makes the aces so good is their maneuverability and arc dodging; the streeshog is just an arc that by neccisity they have to dodge. It doesn't win me games above and beyond the contributions of any other ship in my list and is no more of a problem than Biggs or Poe or Corran or Miranda are.

What lists are the people complaining flying?

It's funny they are probably running super dash or fel.

If people find something beats or Makes their list a little more difficult then they scream nerf or op.

I never thought the Phantom was op, but looked what happened there.

I've dealt with them many times and vice versa.

Same can be said with Stresshog.

If your first game against it didn't work out well, then take a second approach.

Once Imperial Veterans comes out the Empire will have an amazing control ship. It will make taking the turretless stresshog less on an auto include.

Is the stresshog an obvious choice over more expensive ships even if you disregard points cost? Like R3-A2 Hobbie, or Stres Wes? If so, that could be a sign that it needs to be toned down a little.

No it couldn't because StressWes and Hobbie are sitting in X-Wings that have not yet been fully fixed.

I don't wan't to restart a "how to buff the X-Wing" discussion here, but the Y-Wing is not OP as an R3-A2 carrier because the X-Wing still is not competitive, i'm afraid we can't look at the question this way!

it is going to be an NPE to some players.

Which is why the people who want it nerfed feel that way. They have no real solid argument to make that it's OP'ed so they fall back on the IMO extremely lame 'it's not fun' argument.

Yup, i think you two nailed it there!

If your first game against it didn't work out well, then take a second approach.

Wednesday night was at my LGS for league night. We've been playing the co-op campaign, but 2 people couldn't make it so me and the other guy decided to just play a standard game or two.

Didn't have any lists put together so I decided to put my TIE/fo's on the table. Ended up flying a Patrol Leader VR-49 w/Mara and the Emperor and 3 Epsilon pilots. He flew his list from worlds. Poe, Ten Nub and Etahn.

First game was brutal, my dice hated me. He shot at a TIE at range 3 though a rock and I rolled 5 blanks. I killed the E-Wing and that was it... Other thing was it has been so long since I flew a big PWT I wasn't taking advantage of what it could do, and I've never flown a fo before.

We had time for a second game and rather than make a new list we both brought out the same ones again. I remembered how to fly a Large PWT, and had a better feel for the fo's. I also changed my strategy and went on to win. The guy I was playing is quite good at the game so beating him is never easy.

But the point is, even though it seemed like my list failed, I simply had to adjust the way I played and was able to win.

Is the stresshog an obvious choice over more expensive ships even if you disregard points cost? Like R3-A2 Hobbie, or Stres Wes? If so, that could be a sign that it needs to be toned down a little.

No it couldn't because StressWes and Hobbie are sitting in X-Wings that have not yet been fully fixed.

Not to derail, but StressWes + Wired instead of VI is a lot better than you may think. You increase your defense and offense by triggering the stressbot. It isn't exactly lone wolf, but it isn't too far away either.

Most people counter that saying a stressed X-wing is predictable. I counter that by saying so is an unstressed X-Wing.

Wired does a lot for the low and mid-PS jousters that can take it.

As a diehard palp aces player, Stressbot is annoying as hell but quite beatable. There's no surprises in this game in terms of abilities, so prepare for them to stress whatever you stick in their face. They want really badly to stress soontir (or Vader but people seem to hate soontir more) so use that against them. Bait out stress on a turtles soontir then blast away with a 4 straight or 5 straight. Clear your stress and lick your wounds. While using soontir as bait, fly the shuttle behind to tie up the rest of their ships and flank with Vader. Stressbot really just prolongs battles more than ends them, just hit and run with your aces and it's not instant death.

Most people counter that saying a stressed X-wing is predictable.

I don't get that, I mean I've heard it but don't get it. A stressed X-Wing has exactly 1 maneuver it can't do. Sure you don't get any actions when stressed, but a unmodified shot where they can't return fire is better than a TL or F when they can... Unless you think you can kill them first.

Far too many people think when stressed you must do a green maneuver, and that simply isn't true. Qutie often you can use that mindset against them in fact.

Sure a Vader, Fel or Jake with stress is in trouble but Wedge? Not so much.

I'm the only one at the shop who has run one. The full potential hasn't sunk in yet.

That being said, it's just a Y-Wing. A couple good modded attacks and she's not stressing anything. In fact, you have to do the explodey noise and "make it rain" with your stress tokens whenever she blows up. I did and that was the best part.

Should the Stressbot be in every build? Heck no! I certainly don't run it every time. HUGE mini-league kicks off next week though and I will be using a rebel stress and control list... Boy those poor X-Wing Clubbers had better hope they don't have to play a Bye game against me! I'm going to make a stress token trailer for my Y so he can cart his tokens about behind him.

And I'll be polishing up my Skull Chalice for the sweet sweet agony eye-water!

I have yet to play a game I did not enjoy. NPE's come from within.

To people who say stresshog is overpowered I would say stop being trash. Somone referenced Paul Heaver's assement of the ship, but he's also commented that to dodge a single arc is trivial.

I know people want to play untouchable aces that can take multiple defensive actions and neutralize anything that points at them, but believe it or not that's an actual negative play experience, you just don't notice it because it's not happening to you.

Most people counter that saying a stressed X-wing is predictable.

I don't get that, I mean I've heard it but don't get it. A stressed X-Wing has exactly 1 maneuver it can't do. Sure you don't get any actions when stressed, but a unmodified shot where they can't return fire is better than a TL or F when they can... Unless you think you can kill them first.

Far too many people think when stressed you must do a green maneuver, and that simply isn't true. Qutie often you can use that mindset against them in fact.

Sure a Vader, Fel or Jake with stress is in trouble but Wedge? Not so much.

Exactly. I think a lot of people were picturing wired with Ptl a-wings, but this is an EPT jousters dream. For 1 point, I can trigger lone wolf* (same on offense, 1/8 less on defense) with a K-turn on with Wedge, Wes, Porkins, or anyone with an R2-D6 for 2 points. Lone wolf synergizes better with Luke, so you'd never take wired on him.

The X-Wing has never needed help with it's offense. Wired + IA is a boon.

I've faced the stresshog a few times and while a serious threat, I don't see it as OP. However, when building a tournament list, you MUST consider what would happen if you run into a stresshog. My answer is generally to build lists that really don't care about stress.

I encountered quite a few of stresshog (very popular where I live) and never had a problem with them. My Vader stay away from it while the rest of my squad (which doesn't care much about being stressed) take it down. Once it is down, Vader close the deal with the rest.

People who get ****** up are people who run 3 aces list.

It does really hurt Soontir/Vader. Meaning that them bringing a TIE swarm to go in and hurt the hog first might be a good idea.

Tycho gives precisely 0 **** though.

TIE Swarms aren't gonna care either. Not really.

It creates the game's worse negative play experience

No, that title still belongs to Quad TLT lists and pre MoV nerf Fat Han/Chewie + anything.

It might be a tad too cheap for what it does. There's really nothing in the game as powerful or effective, for 26pts. That said, I think might only be undercosted by 1pt or ma-aybe 2pts, but I would cost it under 29, for sure.

I think it's well designed and important for the game. As a player of high-PS Imperial Aces, it's one of the few ships I fear, and my PS11 Vader needs SOMETHING to fear (he certainly doesn't fear Poe, the top end Rebel Ace), otherwise everyone just runs Vader and the game is stale.

I see it as the Rebel equivalent of a Doom Shuttle.

That's fine with me.

I like that it exists.

Imperial Ace lists, imo, had it too easy when matched against Rebel lists without Fat Turrets in them.

It provides an actual reliable answer against Imperial Aces, but is NOT an auto win. Imperial Aces, after all, are still more than capable of dodging arcs. Soontir, even, doesn't hate being Double or Triple stressed if it happens on a round when he can 4 fwd out of the fight for a few rounds. It even makes him less likely to die on that round (all those extra focus tokens).

The Stresshog is probably the best against non Boost + Barrel roll aces, imo.

It's also solid at neutering ships of equal cost, and even out damaging them, so take that as you will.

I haven't thought about it in a while, but I used to consider the possibility that FFG changed rules to: "All upgrades and abilities can only be used Once Per Round"

I had thought about it for cards like Predator, when Predator + Gunner ships ruled the skies. How much more fair would Predator be if you could only use it once per round? Fat Turrets with Predator + Gunner would not have seemed as scary if they didn't get those free dice mods. I mean, prior to Predator, Turrets + Gunner were strong, but unreliable. Predator gave us super reliability for them. At the least, I always felt this card should only have been a "Once per round" deal.

It has some bad impacts though, like Poe's ability becoming "meh". Gunner + Fire Control System = you only get a free TL on 1 of 2 shots. Lone Wolf becomes pretty poor as well, which could be sad for an already tough to use card. (Gotta be outside range 1-2, only works on blanks, not focus).

But it would remove the BTLA4 + R3A2 interaction, as well as any Tactician Double Stress interactions.

Just an idea I had, I don't know my actual opinion on it yet.

I've played against it a few times. You need to be good about staying out of arc or have a good plan for getting away if you do get double stressed. I was in a position where my Corran was double stressed but I didn't let that force me into selecting a green maneuver the next turn. I choose a turn maneuver instead to get out of the Y's arc. Once I was past him I knew it would take him ~3 turns to get me in arc again. More than enough time to clear the stress and get out of range.

I've played against it a few times. You need to be good about staying out of arc or have a good plan for getting away if you do get double stressed. I was in a position where my Corran was double stressed but I didn't let that force me into selecting a green maneuver the next turn. I choose a turn maneuver instead to get out of the Y's arc. Once I was past him I knew it would take him ~3 turns to get me in arc again. More than enough time to clear the stress and get out of range.

Pfft! you make it sound like a stresshog handles like a stressed Y-Wing or something... Oh wait.

It might be a tad too cheap for what it does. There's really nothing in the game as powerful or effective, for 26pts. That said, I think might only be undercosted by 1pt or ma-aybe 2pts, but I would cost it under 29, for sure.

I think it's well designed and important for the game. As a player of high-PS Imperial Aces, it's one of the few ships I fear, and my PS11 Vader needs SOMETHING to fear (he certainly doesn't fear Poe, the top end Rebel Ace), otherwise everyone just runs Vader and the game is stale.

just a sidenote: while poe is really good, the "top end" still is the horned rat corran for rebs, IMHO

he's also the one of the very few pilots where I'm glad the stresshog is in the meta (somebody has to keep the aces in check)

a downside on the stresshog: we already see it too much. nothing against the ship, just that it's kinda monotone; reminds me a bit of "fat-han, and nothing but fat-han" when everybody was afraid of whisper in w4.

kinda boring to see it in every.single.rebel.list.

Electronic Baffle says hello!

Too lazy to read 4 pages, so this has probably been said. Long opinion short, I think it's borderline, so not worth grabbing the bat.

It's maybe a point or two cheaper than it should be, but it does melt so fast it can usually only pull it's trick 1-2 times anyway... The only time it seems OP is when it catches that stress hating ace in arc/range. Unless it's a dual/triple ace list, just skirt the ace around it in combat round one, and focus it down with everything else. Multi ace lists have it rough, for one ace, but that's the risk they take.