It occurs to me that, if you take the various benefits currently from Mastery abilities and move them into Kata, you could then give a completely consistent set of Mastery abilities to the Weapon Macro skill.

That said, I think that 1 kata per level is a bit much: some schools would get 3 kata at character creation before spend the starting XP.

That would only be true if 5e followed the same character creation rules as 4e that include the "any one skill" exploit. That is more a problem with the current character creation rules and School design rather than an actual problem with the suggestion.

Can I suggest that Kata actually give enlightenment? It would be a way for increasing insight besides skill spam.

I actually like this idea. It always felt ironic that bushi often gained more combat potential from improving their courtly abilities than they did from improving their combat abilities.

As you say, it doesn't make sense. Make kata grant insight equal to the XP cost -1, or /2 or something,

Not so, there are 4 bushi schools with 3 weapons, and access to a Bugei skill: Dadoji Scout, Doji Magistrate, Shiba Bushi and Utaku Infantry. The Matsu bushi gets 2 weapons and 2 bugei.

I get what you are saying now, but that is still something from 4e that may not be true in 5e rather than being an actual problem with the suggestion.

One potential problem I see with the actual "one free kata per rank in a weapon skill" suggestion is option overload. To many options at any one time can lead to difficulty making decisions which will slow combat down.

I don't know if I'm a fan of "kata-spam".

Piling on the "special talents" is a flaw in some systems I'd rather not see repeated.

I think that if you start awarding kata automatically in place of or in addition to mastery abilities, you'll very rapidly run into the problem that you need to design a LOT of them . . . and then you're going to wind up with a lot of imbalance between them, even more than we have already. I'd rather see kata remain an add-on you have to pay XP for, so that any given player might pick up a few, but won't have a dozen of them on their sheet.

Agreed that there's merit in thinking of them from a weapon-specific angle, though, however you choose to mark that (keywords or whatever). And I forgot to say before that I would ditch the school restriction: instead of saying that only X schools can learn a kata, give those schools an XP discount on buying it. Opening it up like that allows you to get away with a smaller number of total kata, since you don't need unique options for every school.

Where Insight is concerned . . . I seem to remember hearing that the Etiquette and Courtier mastery boosts stayed in the design because of some factor in how players tend to spend their XP that made bushi tend to gain Insight faster? But I don't remember what that factor was supposed to be. I think you'd have to do some serious character build playtesting before you decided to have kata boost Insight, to make sure you don't wind up with a situation where one school tag winds up really outstripping the others.

Where Insight is concerned . . . I seem to remember hearing that the Etiquette and Courtier mastery boosts stayed in the design because of some factor in how players tend to spend their XP that made bushi tend to gain Insight faster? But I don't remember what that factor was supposed to be. I think you'd have to do some serious character build playtesting before you decided to have kata boost Insight, to make sure you don't wind up with a situation where one school tag winds up really outstripping the others.

If Kata were to grant insight I'd be hoping that Courtiers would be gaining it as well from purchasing something like the Aji you suggested elsewhere and Shugenja the same from possibly permanently memorizing prayers.

Does anybody need a few weapon-specific homebrew Kata?

Many of these have sense only if paired with my homebrew stuff (AoO, maneuvers & weapons) that I posted long ago in the (now gone) AEG forums. Let me know if you want me to post them.

I have to admit that I was mostly thinking about some sort of 4.1 version rather than 5.

If I was going to redo this entirely, I'd want to start by identifying everything that XP is spent on and decide whether it should feed into Insight or not. And whether it feeds into Insight should will be based on what the rules think a character should look like. Currently, the optimal build for getting insight ranks is spamming Level 1 skills. There's a minor sticking plaster on that from the Rank 3 Mastery Abilities on Courtier and Etiquette.

Also, how frequently should new Insight Ranks be attained? The Insight required for each step up is the same, but the Insight return on XP investment is a steadily decreasing value, unless you go with Skill spam. This means that normally people take longer and longer to achieve each new rank. I'm not sure that's the best way to achieve things.

I would be tempted to say that the diminishing returns on insight should be reduced somewhat, so that people are more inclined to buy higher skills. Also, that some things like Kata and memorising spells also gives insight, although possibly at a lower rate. Then, I would pare down the schools somewhat, to a slimmer core, and have some of the effects, and all alternate paths, turned into Kata.

Ronin, in this system, wouldn't have School techniques at all, just Kata.

Here's a consolidated suggestion.

Insight = Rings x 10 + Skills + (Cost of Insightful advantages)/2

School Skills XP cost = 2 (That is the same for every level)

Non-School Skills CP cost = New level

The Insightful tag can be applied to relevant things like Kata, memorising spells, although not Kiho (which arise out of Insight, rather than granting insight)

The Insightful tag can be applied to relevant things like Kata, memorising spells, although not Kiho (which arise out of Insight, rather than granting insight)

Why not allowing the Kiho if you allows the kata and the spells? This kinda gives the monks a huge step behind in Insights compared to both Bushi and Shugenja. My thoughts are simply to not give insight for these, prevents troubles... It's already a bonus for a low cost of xp.

Also, how frequently should new Insight Ranks be attained? The Insight required for each step up is the same, but the Insight return on XP investment is a steadily decreasing value, unless you go with Skill spam. This means that normally people take longer and longer to achieve each new rank. I'm not sure that's the best way to achieve things.

You consider that a bug? The idea that your rate of progression slows down as your power level increases is pretty standard, not only in games, but in real life: my first karate belt test had a fifteen-class minimum, but my black belt test has a sixty-class minimum.

It occurs to me that, if you take the various benefits currently from Mastery abilities and move them into Kata, you could then give a completely consistent set of Mastery abilities to the Weapon Macro skill.

That said, I think that 1 kata per level is a bit much: some schools would get 3 kata at character creation before spend the starting XP.

I understand the hesitancy at the thought of a lot of kata, but I'd like you to consider the example of 7th sea. The knack list for swordfighting alone had Feint, Beat, Lunge, Tagging, Riposte, Pommel Strike, Bind, Disarm, Wall of Steel, Double Attack, Double Parry, Corps-a-corps, Whirl, Stop-thrust, and that's not including the knacks for other weaponry.

On paper, it looks a bit excessive. But in practice, it basically means that your average bushi gets a handful of moves, rather than just attacking all the time. If 5th edition kata were fairly low powered, on par with the current maneuvers, gaining moves with each rank would simply open up small scale options for the player. Letting a crab warrior sunder armor, knock down foes, daze enemies, and boost his defense helps differentiate him from the phoenix yojimbo who can guard an ally, disarm enemies, strike multiple foes, and counterattack against strikes. Both are defensive fighters, but the pool of small moves they have available gives them different tactical options.

If kata are enormous moves that drastically change the flow of battle, the 1-per-rank idea is seriously flawed. But if kata act as small scale maneuvers, granting bushi a pool of moves to perform will help give them tactical variety and a better sense of individual identity, on par with 7th sea swordfighters.

Also, how frequently should new Insight Ranks be attained? The Insight required for each step up is the same, but the Insight return on XP investment is a steadily decreasing value, unless you go with Skill spam. This means that normally people take longer and longer to achieve each new rank. I'm not sure that's the best way to achieve things.

You consider that a bug? The idea that your rate of progression slows down as your power level increases is pretty standard, not only in games, but in real life: my first karate belt test had a fifteen-class minimum, but my black belt test has a sixty-class minimum.

I'm not sure. I consider it something that needs to be taken account of. The fact that each Insight rank requires the same amount of insight kind of implies that they have a steady progression, but in actual fact , you spend longer between ranks as you go up. There's a certain amount of internal inconsistency there.

In some ways, I'd be happier with a system that generated Insight at a consistently similar rate to XP, but explicitly made Insight Ranks further apart the higher they went. That way everyone would know what the game implied. I also have a feeling that things which you buy with XP that don't grant Insight ought to be mechanically slightly superior to the things you could buy with the same XP but do give Insight.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I've come to the conclusion that I really like the idea of the Kata, but I really want them to pack more punch than they do. This really comes from me wanting the Bushi to be the 'Real Powerhouses' on the battlefield (blah blah shugenja and monks, blah blah mechanics matching the fiction, blah blah not the place for this particular discussion again). I want kata that make the different styles really pop. I want kata for the Hida that blast their reduction through the roof. I want kata for the Akodo that focus of cancelling out the bonuses or tricks their opponents rely on. I want kata for the Tsuruchi that let them lay down covering fire or reduce the speed of those they attack. Maybe I'll post some crazy off the wall (read, nearly spell like) ideas later if I get the time away from the children in snowmageddon 2016

But than I also want rules that let me mechanically act out being a squad leader that is more significant than 'have a small initiative boost'.

I understand the hesitancy at the thought of a lot of kata, but I'd like you to consider the example of 7th sea. The knack list for swordfighting alone had Feint, Beat, Lunge, Tagging, Riposte, Pommel Strike, Bind, Disarm, Wall of Steel, Double Attack, Double Parry, Corps-a-corps, Whirl, Stop-thrust, and that's not including the knacks for other weaponry.

On paper, it looks a bit excessive. But in practice, it basically means that your average bushi gets a handful of moves, rather than just attacking all the time. If 5th edition kata were fairly low powered, on par with the current maneuvers, gaining moves with each rank would simply open up small scale options for the player.

I haven't played 7th Sea, so I can't really judge the comparison. But I see the trio of techniques, kata, and maneuvers like this:

Techniques define the core flavor of my character's combat style, delineating which kinds of situations and effects she's built for.

Kata define the general tactics I'm using during a given phase of combat: am I prioritizing movement? Defense? Damage? Etc.

Maneuvers define the specific action I'm doing in a given round.

To the extent that the knacks in 7th Sea are specific things you choose to do in a given round, I'd like to see them treated as maneuvers, not maneuvers that get called kata. To the extent that they are the tactical style you're using during that phase of combat, I'd like to see them treated as kata. In either case, though, we could probably get some good inspiration from them to brainstorm new possibilities for both kinds of mechanic.

Letting a crab warrior sunder armor, knock down foes, daze enemies, and boost his defense helps differentiate him from the phoenix yojimbo who can guard an ally, disarm enemies, strike multiple foes, and counterattack against strikes. Both are defensive fighters, but the pool of small moves they have available gives them different tactical options.

I see those differences as the product of a bunch of different factors, of which kata are (in my opinion) far from the most important. Techniques: the Crab should have school-provided abilities that are about smashing people really hard, while the Phoenix should have school-provided abilities that are more about the gentle touch. Build: the Crab should have high Strength (good for Knockdown) and Earth (tank that damage), while the Phoenix should have high Reflexes (good for Defense and high initiative to act before the enemy does). Armament: the Crab should be using heavy weapons (bonuses to Knockdown and bypassing Reduction) while the Phoenix should be using a sword or polearm (fair cop on that point; the polearm mastery abilities are one of the things I've house-ruled to suit the concept better). Combat scenario: the Crab should more often be in situations where mass mayhem is the order of the day, while the Phoenix should more often be in situations where it's advisable to keep their charge alive and maybe not kill the other guy. Personality: the Crab should more often be the kind of guy who *does* go for mass mayhem as the answer, while the Phoenix should mostly respect that whole pacifism and protect-the-shugenja thing.

If you're looking to kata to make the flavor difference happen, I feel like a whole bunch of other game elements have already failed at their jobs.

I'm not sure. I consider it something that needs to be taken account of. The fact that each Insight rank requires the same amount of insight kind of implies that they have a steady progression, but in actual fact , you spend longer between ranks as you go up. There's a certain amount of internal inconsistency there.

I don't see it as inconsistency; I see it as the avoidance of double-dipping. So long as Insight is based primarily on stats that get more expensive the higher you buy them, there's already a built-in brake. If you also needed *more* Insight between ranks, the slowdown would be huge. Ergo, either you keep the Insight quantity the same and let the brake be the escalating cost of stats, or you keep the stat cost level and have the Insight jump increase -- and the latter has some pretty serious problems for overall game balance. (Illustrative example: Mind's Eye Theatre, where magic powers are the *only* things that have an escalating cost, while everything else is flat. The gameplay results are . . . not pretty.)

In some ways, I'd be happier with a system that generated Insight at a consistently similar rate to XP, but explicitly made Insight Ranks further apart the higher they went.

If Insight were generated independent of XP, that could potentially work. So long as the two are coupled, though, one of those two has to be escalating, and I think the current approach is the better one.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I've come to the conclusion that I really like the idea of the Kata, but I really want them to pack more punch than they do. This really comes from me wanting the Bushi to be the 'Real Powerhouses' on the battlefield (blah blah shugenja and monks, blah blah mechanics matching the fiction, blah blah not the place for this particular discussion again). I want kata that make the different styles really pop. I want kata for the Hida that blast their reduction through the roof. I want kata for the Akodo that focus of cancelling out the bonuses or tricks their opponents rely on. I want kata for the Tsuruchi that let them lay down covering fire or reduce the speed of those they attack.

Forgive me if I'm misreading to you, but it sounds to me like you don't want stronger kata; you want stronger *techniques*. Unless you're completely rethinking the design basis of L5R, techs are where you go to find the super-awesome defining flavor of a school, and kata are where you go to find the customizations available to multiple schools. "Kata for the Hida that blast their Reduction through the roof" would, under the current approach, really be "kata for the Hida and the Daidoji and the Moto and the Heichi that blast their Reduction through the roof" -- which takes away from the flavor of the Hida, at least in my view. If they're only available to a single school, then there's no particular reason not to just build that stuff into the techniques, whether it's for the basic school or an alternate path or an advanced school.

Stronger techniques, I could totally get behind.

But than I also want rules that let me mechanically act out being a squad leader that is more significant than 'have a small initiative boost'.

Yeah, Leadership is weak and uninteresting. I think it would be better off as something other than an Advantage . . . depending on how you built it, I could see either a Maneuver (Simple Action to call out advice to an ally which gives them a boost of some kind) or a kata (fight in a fashion that hampers your own attack roll or whatever to provide some kind of benefit).

I understand the hesitancy at the thought of a lot of kata, but I'd like you to consider the example of 7th sea. The knack list for swordfighting alone had Feint, Beat, Lunge, Tagging, Riposte, Pommel Strike, Bind, Disarm, Wall of Steel, Double Attack, Double Parry, Corps-a-corps, Whirl, Stop-thrust, and that's not including the knacks for other weaponry.

On paper, it looks a bit excessive. But in practice, it basically means that your average bushi gets a handful of moves, rather than just attacking all the time. If 5th edition kata were fairly low powered, on par with the current maneuvers, gaining moves with each rank would simply open up small scale options for the player.

I haven't played 7th Sea, so I can't really judge the comparison. But I see the trio of techniques, kata, and maneuvers like this:

Techniques define the core flavor of my character's combat style, delineating which kinds of situations and effects she's built for.

Kata define the general tactics I'm using during a given phase of combat: am I prioritizing movement? Defense? Damage? Etc.

Maneuvers define the specific action I'm doing in a given round.

To the extent that the knacks in 7th Sea are specific things you choose to do in a given round, I'd like to see them treated as maneuvers, not maneuvers that get called kata. To the extent that they are the tactical style you're using during that phase of combat, I'd like to see them treated as kata. In either case, though, we could probably get some good inspiration from them to brainstorm new possibilities for both kinds of mechanic.

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If you're looking to kata to make the flavor difference happen, I feel like a whole bunch of other game elements have already failed at their jobs.

While I like the idea behind that trio, I must disagree with your interpretation of what kata actually do.

Under the current system, kata do absolutely nothing to help you prioritize different tactics at different times. Right now, they are a series of completely passive bonuses. They require an action to activate, and you can only have one at a time, but once active they basically last forever. Since they need to be purchased individually, the system heavily encourages players to buy one kata with the passive mechanical bonus that will help their main tactic, and never deviate from it, ever.

Stances are supposed to do what you describe. Players should be switching between stances on a round-by-round basis to gain the best advantage over a given situation. Kata are currently caught in a strange place between mini-techniques and mini-stances, lacking the flavor and tactical identity of the former and the universal availability of the latter. In martial arts, kata are forms, not stances. It therefore doesn't make sense to turn them into passive bonuses that are left constantly active, the martial arts equivalent of a buff spell.

So I do think that a certain part of the game is failing at its job. Specifically, maneuvers.

At present, bushi get seven maneuvers for the entire game, plus the possibility of a move or two from their five techniques. This doesn't give them a lot of room to explore different tactics or strike in different ways. By comparison, monks get tons of kiho to perform cool abilities, ranging from paralyzing your foe or counterattacking when struck to suppressing the taint or making hearts explode. So it's hard to justify why there can't be a pool of interesting maneuvers, especially considering that bushi are a lot more common than monks. I think they deserve some love too.

Ideally, I'd like to see the following breakdown...

Techniques are the core traits that define your character. They are powerful, iconic, flavorful, and fundamental.

Stances are the five forms that define phase-by-phase tactics, letting your character prioritize offense, defense, or future actions. (Side note. Full defense should probably be an action, not a stance. That way, there's room for a Mobility stance, emphasizing rushing to an objective rather than fighting or defending)

Kata define the specific action you can take in a particular round, depending on your current stance. They don't have to be called kata if people don't like it, but still.

A pool of interesting moves lets bushi enjoy the same variety of actions as monks in physical combat, with a more martial emphasis as befitting their ways of warfare. If shugenja get plenty of fun spells and monks enjoy a wide variety of martial kiho, bushi deserve to have an array of interesting moves to perform in battle too.

You're right that I neglected to include stances in that lineup. I do still see kata as tactical modes, though: Breath of Wind Style and Dance of the Winds are both about speed (improving initiative); Strength of the Crane, Striking As Air, Lee of the Stone, and Veiled Menace Style are all about defense (improving Armor TN); Power of the Mountain, Strike As the Avalanche, and Waves Upon the Breakers are about hitting harder (improving damage); Leaves in the Stream, Striking As Water, and Art of Ninjutsu are about prioritizing movement -- that's just scanning my list of the kata; I could include more.

Is that a description of *all* of the kata? No, definitely not, because kata as a whole weren't handled very coherently in 4e. But my favored approach to fixing them is, as I said above, to make their activation a Free Action, and then scale their effects to that degree, so that they can operate properly as tactical modes (and players will have incentive to buy more than one, because switching between them situationally becomes a reasonable thing to do). In that sense I would see them as a supplement to the stances, rather than a supplement to the manuevers. They're already partway there, since a number of them require you to be in a particular stance for their effects to kick in.

(I disagree about needing a Mobility Stance. We already have two of those: FAS if you're trying to book it toward your opponent, since that gives you a movement boost, or DS if all you care about this round is moving and might as well benefit from an ATN boost if you aren't going to attack. Basically the only thing you can't do is get a movement boost while running *away* from the enemy -- and let's face it, this is Rokugan. You shouldn't be doing that in the first place, you honorless dog.)

Monks and kiho . . . I *think* the idea there is that the weird effects they can achieve are supposed to compensate for the fact that unless you're playing a very specific build (Temple of Osano-Wo with Hands of Stone), your damage sucks. Also, they get only a single technique, whereas bushi get five -- and as I said before, I'd be on board with scaling up bushi techs to be a little more exciting.

Monks and kiho . . . I *think* the idea there is that the weird effects they can achieve are supposed to compensate for the fact that unless you're playing a very specific build (Temple of Osano-Wo with Hands of Stone), your damage sucks. Also, they get only a single technique, whereas bushi get five -- and as I said before, I'd be on board with scaling up bushi techs to be a little more exciting.

I believe the "weird effects" are more from John Wick cribbing "mystical" Monks from Chinese Wuxia and Xianxia traditions rather than basing them on the more "martial" Sohei Monks of Japanese Jidaigeki traditions. The lack of Techniques was supposed to balance the greater amount of effects Monks had access to.

Monks and kiho . . . I *think* the idea there is that the weird effects they can achieve are supposed to compensate for the fact that unless you're playing a very specific build (Temple of Osano-Wo with Hands of Stone), your damage sucks. Also, they get only a single technique, whereas bushi get five -- and as I said before, I'd be on board with scaling up bushi techs to be a little more exciting.

I believe the "weird effects" are more from John Wick cribbing "mystical" Monks from Chinese Wuxia and Xianxia traditions rather than basing them on the more "martial" Sohei Monks of Japanese Jidaigeki traditions. The lack of Techniques was supposed to balance the greater amount of effects Monks had access to.

Sorry, I should have said "the variety of effects." The weirdness is unrelated to balance; it's absolutely a matter of genre flavor. If they were really based on historical sohei, you could pretty much stat them as ronin and call it a day.

Sorry, I should have said "the variety of effects." The weirdness is unrelated to balance; it's absolutely a matter of genre flavor.

Oh, I get that. I was trying to point out that I think you got things backwards. (i.e. Monk damage sucks and they have few techniques because of the variety of effects they have access to through kiho)

This in turn was the result of Wick kludging in a more fantastic Xia archetype into a setting built more around "realistic" Samurai archetypes.

If they were really based on historical sohei, you could pretty much stat them as ronin and call it a day.

I think this is fairly insulting to both Benkei and one of the major power groups of the Sengoku jidai. They in many cases had more regimented training than the Samurai. Full schools, such as the Order of the Spider Sohei, are what is needed to effectively represent them.

Additional thought: while I wouldn't make the Daigotsu R5 a thing people can buy with XP, I've wondered for a while if the game might not benefit from having an additional category of Advantages -- call them Dojo Advantages, maybe -- which would represent the character having received some kind of special training that doesn't quite rise to the level of replacing one of their school techniques.

I think this could be really beneficial for some of the "universal" alternate paths; in fact, the whole thought process started with the Topaz Champion path, which in no way behaves like an alternate path. It has no mechanical entry requirements, and it doesn't replace your R1 technique; it's just an Advantage whose only cost is the ability to talk your GM into letting you have it. :-P That led me to the awkwardness that is the Jeweled Legionnaire/Magistrate/Champion paths, which suffer from having to be slotted in at a particular technique rank -- an approach that not only screws with both the narrative and the mechanical build of a character, but makes hash of the notion that school techniques are a thing that have to fit together in a logical progression. Then that thought collided with my thoughts on Tea Ceremony as a skill: I don't like it being more or less a group Meditation that requires tools . . . but I can't think of a good single core use for it other than restoring Void Points . . . but folding it in with the other Perform skills seems to really undervalue its role in society . . . but if I make a Tea Master path, or probably more than one because different clans would have their own traditions, then it *has* to replace an existing technique, which I don't like. But hey! If there are Dojo Advantages, then someone who has made a serious study of the tea ceremony in their spare time can be able to do a bit more than just perform it beautifully, without having to replace their normal training. And there could still be alternate paths for those schools (e.g. the Doji) where this is a Really Big Deal.

The way I envision this working is that Dojo Advantages would cost XP like normal Advantages (probably quite a whack of it, for the more powerful ones), plus you would also have to meet entry requirements like you do with paths. (Requirements that might be both mechanical and narrative: it doesn't matter whether you meet the standards for an Emerald Magistrate if nobody appoints you to the position.) The benefit is that, with the occasional exception (Topaz Champion), you wouldn't have to take them at a particular point in your character progression, but you would get an effect that's more complex than a simple skill mastery ability.

It isn't wholly a combat-related concept, as my reference to the tea ceremony shows, but it was your comment about purchasing abilities that made me think of it. What do other people think?

i like the idea of advantages, and it is a good way of broadening a character and not reverting to hack and slash, as rokugan setting is soooo much more.

Additional thought: while I wouldn't make the Daigotsu R5 a thing people can buy with XP, I've wondered for a while if the game might not benefit from having an additional category of Advantages -- call them Dojo Advantages, maybe -- which would represent the character having received some kind of special training that doesn't quite rise to the level of replacing one of their school techniques.

I have homebrewed something like 30 dojo advantages and was continuing creating more and more of them as I adapted the old Dojo stuff from old editions.

When I'll have time, I'll finish them and I'll try to post them here.

Furthermore I feel that "Dojo advantages" are a good thing in mechanical terms since we can have another "tier" of involvement in specific school (Basic School, Path, Dojo advantages).

So maybe as part of an agreement/alliance I've been offered special training in the Unicorn Calm Heart Dojo, but I'm rank 4 (beyond the Rank 3 of the path), so I can just buy the advantage, which will give me less than the path but it will somewhat demonstrate my experience there in mechanical terms.

Here is a (very, very preliminary) attempt at Crab dojo advantages.

I cut off references to other homebrew paths & schools which I do not paste here.

You can buy Dojo Advantages if you are from specific schools/paths or if you have the specific "Know the school" advantage.

NEW ADVANTAGE: Know the School [Training, Social] (4/6 Points)

You had the privilege of spending some time in a school different from your own, although not enough to be considered a standard student of that school.

Choose a school, you do not have ranks in that school (for that you need the “Multiple School Advantage”) but you are considered part of that school for the sake of using Weapon Focus discounts (OTHER HOMEBREW ADVANTAGE OF MINE), buying Kata (if your original school is a bushi school) and Dojo advantages . This advantage cost 4 points for schools of the same clan or faction and 6 points for schools from other clans or factions. If you ever take the Multiple School advantages with the school chosen for this advantage, the Multiple School advantage will cost you only 4 points.

Non-Shugenja should not be allowed to use this advantage for Shugenja schools.

This advantage needs careful approvation by the GM regarding extra-clan schools, one must consider whether or not clan relationships allow such an accord.

CRAB DOJO ADVANTAGES:

Akuma's Ruin Dojo [Dojo] (4 points)
Related schools: Kuni Shugenja, Kuni Witch-hunter

Benefit: You receive a bonus of +1k0 on contested rolls, attack rolls and spell casting rolls against Oni.

Daishiki's Anvil Dojo [Dojo] (2 points)

Location: Kaiu Shiro

Related schools: Any Crab bushi and the Kaiu Engineer.

Benefit: Buying "Multiple Schools" in regard to other schools who have access to this Dojo costs only 5 points instead of 10.

Endo Dojo [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Shiro Hiruma

Related schools: Hiruma Bushi, Kaiu Engineer

Related paths: Endo Engineer

Benefit: When you use the Engineer or Craft skills in desperate situations (e.g. with poor tools, with few workmen, without time, etc..) you can add your Fire Ring to the roll.

Falcon's Spirit Dojo [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Tani Hitokage

Related schools: Toritaka Bushi, Kuni Shugenja, Kuni With-hunter.

Related paths: Toritaka Exorcist

Benefit: You receive a +1k0 bonus on attack rolls against targets coming from other Spirit Realms.

Far-Runner Dojo [Dojo] (4 points)

Location: Shiro Shinjo (Unicorn Lands)

Related schools: Hiruma Scouts

Benefit: When you use Move actions you can add + 5ft per round.

Grip of Earth Dojo [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Kyuden Hida

Related schools: Hida Pragmatist, Hida Bushi, Yasuki Courtier

Related paths: Crab Sumai Wrestler

Benefit: You benefit from +1k0 to Jujutsu rolls made to initiate grapples.

First Strike Dojo [Dojo] (4 points)

Location: Shiro Hiruma

Related schools: All Crab Bushi schools, including the Toritaka Bushi (after the Falcon entered into the Crab Clan).

Benefit: You get a +1k0 bonus to damage rolls against Shadowlands creatures, Tainted and the Lost.

Hida War College [Dojo] (3 points)

Location:Kyuden Hida

Related schools: Hida Bushi

Benefit: You redeive a bonus of +1k0 on any Battle rolls made against Shadowlands enemies.

Kaiu Battle Dojo [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Kaiu Shiro

Related schools: Hide Bushi; Hiruma Bushi; Kaiu Engineer

Benefit: You receive a bonus of +1k0 on all Battle rolls related to sieges, whether you are defending or attacking.

Kaiu Engineering Academy [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Kaiu Shiro

Related schools: Kaiu Engineer

Benefit: Choose one Engineering Emphasis you own. From now onwards you get +1k0 whenever you use that emphasis.

Kaiu's Forge [Dojo] (2 points)

Location: Kaiu Shiro

Related schools: Kaiu Engineer

Benefit: You receive a +1k0 on Craft: weapons rolls made for crafting swords.

Kuni Duelist Dojo [Dojo] (2 points)

Location: scattered among the Kuni Wastelands

Related schools: Kuni Shugenja

Benefit: You receive a +1k0 bonus to the "Strike" rolls in Taryu.Jiai duels.

Kuni Wastelands Temple [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: scattered among the Kuni Wastelands

Related schools: Kuni Shugenja, Kuni Witch-hunter

Benefit: You get a Free Raise on your Earth Rolls for resisting Taint.

Razor's Edge Dojo [Dojo] (3 points)

Location: Razor pf the Dawn Castle

Related schools: Hida Bushi; Hida Pragmatist

Related paths: Crab Berserker

Benefit: You get a +1k0 bonus to rolls for resisting Fear or Intimidation.

Stone Tower Dojo [Dojo] (5 points)

Location: Toshi Ranbo

Related schools: Hida Pragmatist, Hida Bushi, Yasuki Courtier.

Related paths: Crab Sumai Wrestler

Benefit: You benefit from +1k0 to contested Jujutsu rolls made during a grapple.

Sunda Mizu Dojo [Dojo] (4 points)

Location: Sunda Mizu Mura

Related schools: Hida Bushi; Hida Pragmatist; Yasuki Bushi

Benefit: You can add your Earth ring to all rolls made under the "Fatigued" condition and to all the Intimidation rolls made against Shadowlands creatures and Tainted targets.

Unbreakable Blade Dojo [Dojo] (2 points)

Location: Yasuki provinces

Related schools: Any Crab bushi

Related paths: Crab Defender, Kurogane Duelist

Benefit: You can add your Earth ring to the Tn that an opponent must beat against you suring the assesment phase.

I've read quite a few suggestions in this thread, and some I can embrace. Others, I can't.

The ones I can embrace involve the underlying design of the game. Maneuvers and Weapons should most likely be gone over thoroughly, so as to be rebalanced and actually made useful based upon circumstance.

I haven't really used Kata all that much to see whether they are broken or not. It is my belief that kata actually serve very little purpose other than to add a bit more flavor, and be an XP sink for a slight mechanical bonus return. In this sense, I believe that Kata, should be made generic, rather than school specific to compliment the Maneuver and Weapon rebalance.

On the topic Ranking up and Skill Spam? I myself look at how true life martial arts progresses, and I think that the insight curve is too easy. Generally starting techniques are easier to conceptually easier to grasp and apply in their timing and situation compared to the techniques that are applied further up the ranking chain. Further more, while a plethora of skills might add to your ability to grasp the concept of throwing an opponent (i.e. physics), a knowledge of physics in and of itself won't convince your sensei to give you the next rank within your dojo unless you can actually apply it to maneuvers. In this, it is my belief that school skills themselves should lend to insight in their full total, non-school skills half (rounded down), and no contribution from kata/spells/kiho due to the fact that those three things in and of themselves are tools that already augment your abilities.

This, of course, leads into the question of school design, which I believe every pertinent skill for a school should be listed, and then you get to pick a base number of them as starting school skills.

The math behind school design basicly resembles (as it stands now) thus:

all rings at 2, all school skills at 3: 121

all rings at 3, all school skills at 4: 178

all rings at 4, all school skills at 5: 235

all rings at 5, all school skills at 5: 285

Written thusly, it is easy to see how the school ranks are designed as they are. Rank 2 has a few rings at 3, maybe a few skills at 4. Rank 4 is some rings at 4, some skills at 5.

The way this progression works, it makes quite a bit of sense, and is fairly natural compared to quite a few other RPGs i've played. I feel it also ties you more closely to your character than any other RPG, as you don't have the whole thing of dealing with huge xp pools that allow no progression until you hit that levels cap, but is roughly figured more by number of encounters rather than overall interaction.

I super like the idea of Dojo advantages. Customization+fluff sounds like win.

Stances: Honestly, I have no real problem with them. Though a mastery ability to make a simple action/counterattack makes sense to me.

Kata: More kata would give more customization within a school. Tying them into stances makes sense to me, too. Given the reflexive nature of them that others have pointed out, I would suggest that they shouldn't be actions at all; I think it would be more streamlined if they worked more like techniques and you could just *do* them, and the complex/simple/free is based on the action that the kata modifies. You could have phrasing like, "When you attack with a katana" (which could apply to any katana attack), or something like "Make a heavy weapons attack as a complex action to..." Though I don't have much experience with them, so I don't know how much house ruling would be necessary to balance that against 4e.

Maneuvers: in my experience, maneuvers were most usable when using the Little Truths rule of a free raise for every 10 over the TN. My players (myself included, when not GMing) spent a long time figuring out the optimal combination of maneuvers for every attack before making the roll, which slowed combat in an already cumbersome system.

Weapons: more balance please!

Though I have a question:

I like where you're going with this.

1) active defense, blocks/parries, counters, etc, are needed

Most of my gaming experience comes from GURPS 4e, WIld Talents 2e, and L5R 4e. GURPS has an active defense roll, as does WT; L5R doesn't. In my experience, the active defense roll worked well in GURPS because it's a pretty straightforward system: roll 3d6, compare to your own stat +/- modifiers. Also easy in WT.

R&K is a more cumbersome working memory load; I could geek out about how to calculate working memory load (which I totally can if anyone wants!), but that would take too much room and be too far off topic. Point is, even after a couple years of experience with L5R, as much as I love R&K, it's feels like a cumbersome mechanic/system for combat. Combats still take forever, despite having lots of experience.

If my group added active defense rolls on top of that, things would take forEVER! Besides, a defense roll becomes something you can adjust with raises, which increases the number of decisions to be made, which lengthens combat

In my experience, I like having a static defense; it's one less set of decisions to make in a round.

I like where you're going with this.

1) active defense, blocks/parries, counters, etc, are needed

Could you please elaborate? Why do you think they're necessary? What experience do you have that suggests they would it well in R&K? Anyone else who feels similarly, please chime in.

Most of my gaming experience comes from GURPS 4e, WIld Talents 2e, and L5R 4e. GURPS has an active defense roll, as does WT; L5R doesn't. In my experience, the active defense roll worked well in GURPS because it's a pretty straightforward system: roll 3d6, compare to your own stat +/- modifiers. Also easy in WT.

R&K is a more cumbersome working memory load; I could geek out about how to calculate working memory load (which I totally can if anyone wants!), but that would take too much room and be too far off topic. Point is, even after a couple years of experience with L5R, as much as I love R&K, it's feels like a cumbersome mechanic/system for combat. Combats still take forever, despite having lots of experience.

If my group added active defense rolls on top of that, things would take forEVER! Besides, a defense roll becomes something you can adjust with raises, which increases the number of decisions to be made, which lengthens combat

In my experience, I like having a static defense; it's one less set of decisions to make in a round.

First, the system mechanics seem to make static defense scale up far slower than attack.

Second, so many of the combats in the inspirational materials include a lot of parries, dodges, and counters, whereas L5R seems to model something else.

Sorry, to be clear, I prefer active defenses to static ones generally, just not in R&K because of the mechanic.

I like where you're going with this.

1) active defense, blocks/parries, counters, etc, are needed

Could you please elaborate? Why do you think they're necessary? What experience do you have that suggests they would it well in R&K? Anyone else who feels similarly, please chime in.

...

In my experience, I like having a static defense; it's one less set of decisions to make in a round.

First, the system mechanics seem to make static defense scale up far slower than attack.

Second, so many of the combats in the inspirational materials include a lot of parries, dodges, and counters, whereas L5R seems to model something else.

Huh. I never really noticed the ramping. Any out-pacing of attack over defense got used for raises and maneuvers in my group. Which makes sense to me from a design perspective; as my character gets better, I want him to do cooler stuff against opponents; if their static defenses keep pace, I'm afraid the cool stuff could only happen against weaker opponents. Does that make sense? Or am I misunderstanding the math? (I probably am. It's not my strong suit).

As to the second point, all game mechanics are abstractions; can a static defense number not be understood as a parry or dodge? Could we add some mechanic where the choice is made of dodge vs. parry without adding a roll? Maybe a dodge has a normal ATN, and selecting to parry when attacked (pre attack roll) lowers your ATN but gives you a bonus to a counter attack, or acts as a free raise for disarm or something? With a mechanic like that, there's still a decision and a mechanical benefit for it, but it saves the parsing of a second roll.