I know a lot of people don't like the Bomber, but I do. I was excited for the TIE Punisher simply because it was a super Bomber. But I just don't see the point.

It costs 5 points more, for 3 shields and 1 less agility. You also trade a boost for a barrel roll. The Punisher has a worse dial. The only thing where the Punisher is clearly better is that it has a system upgrade.

I sort of wish I could put Rhymer in the Punisher, and Redline in the Bomber.

I am totally okay about having some of the upgrade cards just not be up to snuff, or even a ship that has been out for a long time to be a little under-powered, but the Punisher is almost brand new and I just don't see a time when I would want one over a TIE Bomber.

I think it comes down to the fact that I liked the TIE Bomber naked. So I didn't have to put too many missiles or Torpedoes on it, (since ordnance is not really that powerful), and for its price (the Bomber is pretty dang cheap) it was a pretty good ship. The Punisher is better in some ways but it is really expensive. What's the point?

It's mainly in the systems slot, I think. Stick Accuracy Corrector on it to get a ship that can spend its actions boosting around, dropping bombs. Give it Fire-Control System and a Chimp to ensure it has a 100% torpedo or missile hit rate.

One of these days I'm going to try the Baffling Cutlass, though. Do a 4-k right in their face, drop a Proximity mine on them, and have them either a) land right in front of me, taking three reds up the rear, or b) bump me, and unavoidably get Seismic'd the next turn.

bombers should never fly naked, though.

it was effective, but it's so horribly unfluffy .. I can see it in a die-hard-no-nonsense tournament - but in these you don't take a bomber in the first place. else, there HAS to be a missile/torp/bomb on it. at least one.

and with imp.vets coming, it will be glorious

the point is literally Deathrain and Redline

Redline's better off in a punisher because of FCS

the point of redline is plasma torps and cluster missiles, which he can mod to hell and back while the bomber cannot

Yeah, I agree completely with Fickle, the generics are not terribly good but the named ones have powerful abilities that makes them worthwhile.

The flaw of the Punisher is that it is supposed to be an Ordnance ship, and in that aspect it is superior to the Bomber as an ordnance ship, with one exception: It is more expensive than the bomber.

Ordnance is not yet cheap enough to cover the 5 points of expense on the punisher. Neither are Bombs.

However, the Punisher allows for Extra Munitions + 2x Seismic Charges + Advanced Sensors for only 28 points, and that's fun as all get-out.... but Bombers have EM + 1xSeismic + no sensor for 18, and so can fit 5 ships in the same fleet with a PS bid.

The flaw of the Punisher is that it is supposed to be an Ordnance ship, and in that aspect it is superior to the Bomber as an ordnance ship, with one exception: It is more expensive than the bomber.

Ordnance is not yet cheap enough to cover the 5 points of expense on the punisher. Neither are Bombs.

However, the Punisher allows for Extra Munitions + 2x Seismic Charges + Advanced Sensors for only 28 points, and that's fun as all get-out.... but Bombers have EM + 1xSeismic + no sensor for 18, and so can fit 5 ships in the same fleet with a PS bid.

When the quality of damage is good enough

Cost is irrelevant

The flaw of the Punisher is that it is supposed to be an Ordnance ship, and in that aspect it is superior to the Bomber as an ordnance ship, with one exception: It is more expensive than the bomber.

Ordnance is not yet cheap enough to cover the 5 points of expense on the punisher. Neither are Bombs.

However, the Punisher allows for Extra Munitions + 2x Seismic Charges + Advanced Sensors for only 28 points, and that's fun as all get-out.... but Bombers have EM + 1xSeismic + no sensor for 18, and so can fit 5 ships in the same fleet with a PS bid.

When the quality of damage is good enough

Cost is irrelevant

Quantity has a quality all of its own, herr Baron.

there is no quality that the generic has over the bomber

only Deathrain and redline provide substantial benefit using their respective weapons. Just having a system slot isn't worth the 5 point tax

The flaw of the Punisher is that it is supposed to be an Ordnance ship, and in that aspect it is superior to the Bomber as an ordnance ship, with one exception: It is more expensive than the bomber.

Ordnance is not yet cheap enough to cover the 5 points of expense on the punisher. Neither are Bombs.

However, the Punisher allows for Extra Munitions + 2x Seismic Charges + Advanced Sensors for only 28 points, and that's fun as all get-out.... but Bombers have EM + 1xSeismic + no sensor for 18, and so can fit 5 ships in the same fleet with a PS bid.

When the quality of damage is good enough

Cost is irrelevant

Quantity has a quality all of its own, herr Baron.

The Punisher should have been the Missile Boat. Barring that it should have kept the two agility.

nah, the missile boat can get its own release

the punisher is an awesome model

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

Forget the generics they'll die before unloading a shot one agility won't keep them alive long.

Red line will deliver a nasty hit but again don't plan on him being on the board turn four.

It's a big points heavy target with little defence.

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

You build it to a purpose

Either vomit missile death or vomit bomb based death

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

better question is why would you load it to the max?

the slots are and have always been to encourage a variety of builds; not to max out on upgrades

hence why you only go four max (2 + extras) on either named punisher

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

better question is why would you load it to the max?

the slots are and have always been to encourage a variety of builds; not to max out on upgrades

hence why you only go four max (2 + extras) on either named punisher

Sure, but you can do the same thing with missiles on the bomber. Granted, only the Punisher can take four bombs, but I don't really see it living long enough to make use of them. I'm just not seeing much value in the Punisher as a 5 point upgrade to the Bomber. The Punisher really needs a Title to make it shine and be a bit distinctive from its older brother.

The flaw of the Punisher is that it is supposed to be an Ordnance ship, and in that aspect it is superior to the Bomber as an ordnance ship, with one exception: It is more expensive than the bomber.

Ordnance is not yet cheap enough to cover the 5 points of expense on the punisher. Neither are Bombs.

However, the Punisher allows for Extra Munitions + 2x Seismic Charges + Advanced Sensors for only 28 points, and that's fun as all get-out.... but Bombers have EM + 1xSeismic + no sensor for 18, and so can fit 5 ships in the same fleet with a PS bid.

When the quality of damage is good enough

Cost is irrelevant

Quantity has a quality all of its own, herr Baron.

Are you gunning for the Zapp Brannigan award?

Sure. Are you Kif?

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

better question is why would you load it to the max?

the slots are and have always been to encourage a variety of builds; not to max out on upgrades

hence why you only go four max (2 + extras) on either named punisher

Sure, but you can do the same thing with missiles on the bomber. Granted, only the Punisher can take four bombs, but I don't really see it living long enough to make use of them. I'm just not seeing much value in the Punisher as a 5 point upgrade to the Bomber. The Punisher really needs a Title to make it shine and be a bit distinctive from its older brother.

you can't "do the same thing with missiles on the bomber"

bombers cannot approximate Redline nor Deathrain in any way, shape or form

hence why only the named punishers are worth it

Loading up a bomber to the max is a bad idea, as it will never be able to expend all that expensive ordnance, why did we need a more expensive bomber that can carry even more expensive ordnance that it will never get to fire? At least the Missile boat would have given us SLAM and a new take on ordnance. I don't hate the Punisher like many here do, but I'd trade it away in a second for an interesting and well designed Missile Boat.

better question is why would you load it to the max?

the slots are and have always been to encourage a variety of builds; not to max out on upgrades

hence why you only go four max (2 + extras) on either named punisher

Sure, but you can do the same thing with missiles on the bomber. Granted, only the Punisher can take four bombs, but I don't really see it living long enough to make use of them. I'm just not seeing much value in the Punisher as a 5 point upgrade to the Bomber. The Punisher really needs a Title to make it shine and be a bit distinctive from its older brother.

you can't "do the same thing with missiles on the bomber"

bombers cannot approximate Redline nor Deathrain in any way, shape or form

hence why only the named punishers are worth it

Sure the named pilots have good abilities, but the same can be said of the Bomber pilots. Generic to generic, I'm just not seeing a good ROI for my 5 point investment. In fact, I'd bet that Deathrain and Redline would see more play as bomber pilots. Only Redline would miss being in the Punisher, but would he miss it by 7 points?

Sure the named pilots have good abilities, but the same can be said of the Bomber pilots.

Jonus' pilot ability is good for other ships, but not for his own upgrades (until TIE Shuttle gets here). Remember, he doesn't modify himself.

​Rhymer's pilot ability is waaay too overcosted for its effected. Maximized, you're paying 4 points on a R1-3 Adv. Homing Device.

The Scimitar is one of the best generics in the game, with good mobility and amazing survivability for the cost. The Bomb Slot can also make up for the low damage in all but the most extreme examples ( _{FELLLLLLLLL!!!!} ).

Advanced Sensors to boost before dropping a bomb, or perform an action before a red maneuver is something TIE Bombers can't do. Accuracy Corrector + Cluster Missiles is another, though TIE Advanceds can do that for cheaper, without the option of extra munitions though.

Sure the named pilots have good abilities, but the same can be said of the Bomber pilots.

Jonus' pilot ability is good for other ships, but not for his own upgrades (until TIE Shuttle gets here). Remember, he doesn't modify himself.

​Rhymer's pilot ability is waaay too overcosted for its effected. Maximized, you're paying 4 points on a R1-3 Adv. Homing Device.

The Scimitar is one of the best generics in the game, with good mobility and amazing survivability for the cost. The Bomb Slot can also make up for the low damage in all but the most extreme examples ( _{FELLLLLLLLL!!!!} ).

Yup, I am aware of how Jonus works, and yeah, Rhymer is 3 points overcosted, but they're still great abilities. Just like Redline and Deathrain, good abilities, but their ride is over priced. The TIE Punisher needs a nice title to make it useable, especially for the generics.

The Punisher is definitely overpriced, unfortunately. I get that they were reluctant to make it super-efficient as a naked jouster, but the degree to which they priced it is just overkill.

8 HP at AGI 1 is roughly equivalent to 6HP at AGI 2, something borne out by 22pt IA+R2 X-wings vs 22pt naked B-wings.

The punisher has 1 extra HP... at AGI 1, that's not worth a lot. Should the extra slots, especially Sensor, be worth something? Sure.

But extra slots are not worth 5 points ...

Hopefully the fix will eventually come, and it'll be "Get 4pts worth of Ordnance for free" or something. Or halve ordnance prices! You start out behind, but quickly come ahead. I dunno, but the generics certainly suffer, and while they're neat, even the Uniques are a little pricey for what you get. A 40pt Redline only takes one more hit than a 40pt Keyan Farlander to pop... and he's not been to popular either.

Sure the named pilots have good abilities, but the same can be said of the Bomber pilots.

Jonus' pilot ability is good for other ships, but not for his own upgrades (until TIE Shuttle gets here). Remember, he doesn't modify himself.

​Rhymer's pilot ability is waaay too overcosted for its effected. Maximized, you're paying 4 points on a R1-3 Adv. Homing Device.

The Scimitar is one of the best generics in the game, with good mobility and amazing survivability for the cost. The Bomb Slot can also make up for the low damage in all but the most extreme examples ( _{FELLLLLLLLL!!!!} ).

Yup, I am aware of how Jonus works, and yeah, Rhymer is 3 points overcosted, but they're still great abilities. Just like Redline and Deathrain, good abilities, but their ride is over priced. The TIE Punisher needs a nice title to make it useable, especially for the generics.

Maybe a title that adds a damage resist roll? Lets get crazy with it.

I always thought the first ordinance equipped to a Bomber or Punisher should be free. Or at least discounted. Does having a 2-3 point discount off of one set of cluster missiles or concussion missiles break the game?

What's the most that Bombers and Punishers should be allowed to get away with before losing balance vs Y-wings and B-wings?

BetterThanLife-A4 Y-wings can put out some hurt against a tractored target.