Does dodge cancel all surge abilities, as in you can't use a surge ability for recovering damage? Or surge abilities that give other units an attack or something like that? If a hero's attack on an Imperial is dodged, can they use the surges still to recover strain?

I'm thinking dodge cancels all chance of inflicting damage for that single attack, not everything related to the attacker's roll.

No, dodge makes the attack do zero damage.

That means blast, cleave, and conditions don't apply, but recover (whether it be from a surge ability, or from the hero 1-surge-heals-1-strain) is still fair game.

Also, in the rule book, under recover, it states that no damage has to be inflicted to recover (spending surges).

Additionally, I heard on a podcast that they had an official ruling that Kayne Somos could activate his squad command even if no damage was inflicted or a dodge was rolled.

Ha. I hadn't even considered that when I looked at his card. That's pretty awesome.

So hero's can uses urges to remove strain if a dodge is rolled.

So hero's can uses urges to remove strain if a dodge is rolled.

Yes.

"Twin Shadows FAQ" FAQ, Page 5:

Q: When Kayn Somos uses “Squad Command,” does the target of the attack need to suffer (damage) in order for Focus to be applied?

A: No.

So if the condition is a generic keyword, ie: surge = focus, then it requires damage. But if it's a result of an ability, even a surge powered ability, like Kayn's, then it still happens?

I think you can surge for focus even without doing damage can't you?

You can basically do anything, the only thing my stopping you is that they can't take damage, which would only restrict harmful conditions

I think you can surge for focus even without doing damage can't you?

You can basically do anything, the only thing my stopping you is that they can't take damage, which would only restrict harmful conditions

Beneficial conditions require damage to the defender as well in order to apply, if the condition is a keyword in the attack:

Pg 9, Rules Reference Guide, Conditions:

Conditions are sometimes used as keywords. When an attack

uses a condition as a keyword, the condition is applied using

the following rules:

-- The target of the attack must suffer one or more damage for the

condition to apply.

-- The condition is applied after the attack resolves.

-- If it is a Beneficial condition, it is applied to the attacker. If

it is a Harmful condition, it is applied to the target figure.

You can surge for anything, even if the attack misses, since the step for spending surgest comes before calculating accuracy and damage. Its after the damage resolves that you calculate whether the conditions apply or not based on whether the defender took damage.

Condidation (focus, bleed, weaken, stun) required you to do damage

Condidation (focus, bleed, weaken, stun) required you to do damage

Only if it is a keyword in an attack. If it is a result of an ability outside of an attack, then it applies, regardless of damage.

With Kayn able to make a figure focused based upon the Dodge roll, would that mean Leia would be able to use Military Efficiency?

Presumably, would make sense? And with double yellow, its unlikely her all her surges will get cancelled... Same with the recovery, 2 health each time... And with a blue die and +3 accuracy on a surge, she can shoot from further away as well... nice!

All conditions, whether beneficial or detrimental to anyone, are dependent upon inflicting damage - but no other surge abilities are.

Is that right?

Only if they're used as keywords... For example, Imperial Officer has surge: Focus. This requires damage to the defender when the Officer attacks to apply the focus to the Officer.

But Kayn has a surge ability called Squad Command that applies a focus, this does not require damage.

Recover also does not require damage.

Presumably, following the example of Kayn, any other surge abilities don't require damage (unless otherwise stated).

But like with the Officer, Focus, Bleed, Blast, Weaken, Stun, Cleave as surge keywords, all require damage. You can spend the surge on them, but they only apply after and if damage was done.

At least this is how I'm understanding it at the moment?

That's kinda tough to understand. How do you tell if something is a keyword or not?

I think of it as when the figure gives the condition or has the effect naturally or as a surge ability. Like the Nexu has Bleeding and the Officer has focus. If I recall correctly, the Bleeding has no cost, whereas the focus does. In both cases, damage has to occur.

In the case of Kayn, the same thing is wrapped inside of an ability... in that case you follow whats written in the ability.

But this is based on my understanding - would love to hear other input from more experienced folk?

I think of it as when the figure gives the condition or has the effect naturally or as a surge ability. Like the Nexu has Bleeding and the Officer has focus. If I recall correctly, the Bleeding has no cost, whereas the focus does. In both cases, damage has to occur.

In the case of Kayn, the same thing is wrapped inside of an ability... in that case you follow whats written in the ability.

But this is based on my understanding - would love to hear other input from more experienced folk?

This is a pretty good summation. There are some other 'abilities' that are on command cards and such that specify "then become focused" or "become stunned." There are others which specifically state "if the target suffered damage, then..." Some hero class cards and agenda cards are similar. When there are words being used to say "DO THIS", you do it regardless of combat roll results. When the ability is just the keyword, damage must be done.

I appreciate how simple you guys have tried to make it, and I understand it, but by golly this is still convoluted no matter how you slice it.

Meh, I think this is perhaps as convoluted as many other games its scope -- it just hasn't as extensive a rules guide as, say, Magic the Gathering (their "comprehensive rule guide" is impressively air-tight, but is ~500 pages long last time I checked)

I think for now this could be summarized by just enumerating the condition keywords: Focus, Weaken, Stun, Bleed. If a surge ability contains any of these keywords, the attack needs to do damage for the conditions to apply. If instead a surge ability mentions the condition in a different way, then the attack need not do damage for the condition to apply.

Meh, I think this is perhaps as convoluted as many other games its scope -- it just hasn't as extensive a rules guide as, say, Magic the Gathering (their "comprehensive rule guide" is impressively air-tight, but is ~500 pages long last time I checked)

Wow. I am glad I never tried that game. Closest thing I did was the VS System.

Meh, I think this is perhaps as convoluted as many other games its scope -- it just hasn't as extensive a rules guide as, say, Magic the Gathering (their "comprehensive rule guide" is impressively air-tight, but is ~500 pages long last time I checked)

Wow. I am glad I never tried that game. Closest thing I did was the VS System.

The comprehensive rule guide for magic is for tournament players. The regular rulebook that gets you through 99.9% of all issues is probably smaller than x-wing's.