Just some tips learned through hard experience and facing the Fireball. I’m mostly a rebel player so a lot of the specific advice deals generally with Rebel ships but hopefully this can help everyone. When I’m talking minimum squadrons, I mean 50 points or less.

KNOW YOUR ENEMY

The Adversary: Darth Vader for Escort, Rhymer for sniping, Dengar because he’s go the brains behind the looks, and 4 Firesprays to make your opponent weep.

Observations:

1. Unless you take your full allotment of fighters you probably can’t kill the fireball with fighters. It has too many tokens and it can put out a very decent amount of ack ack which can make any point investment made to kill it backfire. That being said you can just spend an equal amount of point in generic squadron and probably house the fireball but that’s not the point of this article.

2. It can and will eat any ship within 2 turns that is medium based or smaller (VSD with Motti might be the exception). I don’t care how many defensive upgrades you put on it, the Fireball puts out too many dice over too many attacks. If you live to see 3 rounds of attacks with an AFII consider yourself lucky.

3. It is fairly slow. Unless they are running Corrupter, the Fireball is limited a bit by its speed 3. Rhymer counteracts this a bit but it does give you the option to just blow past it after you take a round of shooting from it if you have a fast enough ship and you maneuver correctly.

4. There’s something just unsavory about taking all of those bomber dice to the face. When you face the Fireball remember that it’s an ISD in points. It’s supposed to hit hard.

5. Unlike the Rhymerball which had a lot of 1 black dice attacks, every Firespray that is taken out or engaged drops the potential anti-ship battery by 2 dice. Fireball generally feels the pain of getting engaged (if you can get around Dengar) more. Engaging 2 Firesprays is a big deal to the Fireball and drops the anti-ship battery to a much more manageable level.

6. You don’t have to kill it!!!! If you kill the ships you win BUT using your ships to try and kill the Fireball isn’t as inefficient as it normally is to try and kill your run of the mill fighter swarm. The Fireball is so expensive that it’s not half bad to shoot at every fighter in your arc. While it’s not great to use an MC80 to shoot at the Fireball remember you just used it to put damage on and ISD’s worth of point and drops the amount of dice you are taking to the face in a pretty appreciable way if you manage to kill something.

TIPS ON USING YOUR FIGHTERS

The name of the game isn’t to kill it, just hinder it. That’s your mantra. The fireball will generally get a good 3-4 turns of damage at a horrendous level. Every turn you slow it down you are winning because it’s such a huge point investment.

How do you hold it up when D-gar is such a D***. Well D*** can only be in one place at a time. Intel states that he makes enemy fighters heavy within range 1. Well if he in the middle of the Fireball that means you have the ability to engage any fighter without Dengar making you heavy. I wish I had a nifty graphic but visualize or put some fighters stands in front of you. Because you cannot stack fighter stands that means no matter where you put Dengar, there’s a safe landing zone that let’s you engage anyone of your choice.

Tip: Engage the Firesprays if you have a choice, stay away from Vader if you can help it. Don’t even shoot anything unless you know you can kill it because of Counter. On average dice it take 3 Firesprays to kill one A-Wing and remember you are playing for time.

The real kicker is to stop Dengar from just moving and making that fighter you just so painstakingly placed heavy and leaving the Fireball free to move. That means you have to double up. Two fighters landing and engaging 2 Firesprays each leaves Dengar in a tough spot and drops the damage output of the Fireball against ships significantly (you have to be very careful in spacing your engaging fighters to make sure that Dengar can’t make both heavy simultaneously). He can disengage one group pretty easily but that leaves the rest high and dry and possibly saving you from about eating 4 dice worth of anti-ship battery.

If he breaks it apart you are sitting pretty since that will make it easier to tie down bits and pieces of it so the effect on the ship battle should be manageable.

You will lose your engaging fighters. That's OK. More than likely once you pull the engaging maneuver your opponent will just use his fighters to kill yours but that buys you a turn of breathing room while you try to leverage your points advantage in ships over his. The real trick is to do it again and that makes the sweet spot for your CAP 4 stands of fighters. If you can pull this maneuver off twice you effectively neutered the Fireball by a significant amount. (You may be able to pull this off with just 3 fighters if you make your third fighter something fast and tough like Dash who might be able to live through a round of the Fireball shooting at it).

FIGHTER CHOICES

In order to pull this off without relying on luck you have to be faster than the Fireball because you need to room to engage what you want. For Rebels this limits you to the A-Wing and the YT2400. The YT2400 is deal because it’s tanky, has Rogue, and fast but it’s expensive. A-Wings are fast and cheap but lack Rogue. Generally you are going to take a combination. (The 50 point limit isn't a hard and fast rule, personally I've switched to Dash and two A's).

TIPS ON USING YOUR SHIPS

Play aggressive. KILL KILL KILL.

You have almost a 100 point advantage in the ship battle if you can hinder the fireball so you have to use that to your advantage. You need to make sure most of your ships are shooting in turn two. Limit your choices to speed 3 ships or higher (MC80 is ok but you need to take engine techs). Take a nav token in the first turn so you can slow down if necessary later. Going this fast also means that generally the enemy can’t just slow roll you and let the Fireball do all the work.

I generally shy away from the AFII and the MC30 because they are expensive and lack durability. I’ve been using a souped up MC80 and corvettes and so far and that’s worked great. The corvettes also let you just pull a fighter command when you need it to tie up the fireball if necessary. You just have to get used to losing corvettes in the age of ISDs.

When it all goes to hell in a handbasket and my plan doesn’t work, Fireball eats corvettes. That’s ok since I look at like the corvette got one shot by an ISD and I stay the course. So far haven’t lost the MC80 due to redundant shields and spamming the repair command. It’s gotten close a few times though.

OBJECTIVES

It’s tough because sometimes free points look enticing but you have to leverage every ship you have to make the ship battle turn in your favor before the fireball gets loose. Since I'm running an MC80 I run advanced gunnery for obvious reasons but the other two choices get tricky.

I run Hyperspace assault because it lets me put a TRC90 right where I need it and hopefully lets me pull off a double broadside. It also let you put a fighter or two in reserve to make sure you have the right position to tie up the fireball.

I run Minefields because I can’t afford to have a ship chasing objectives and while I know it’s my weakest choice its worked so far. Placing all the obstacles is huge and sometimes it gives me a few damage or two in my favor. Won me a game once.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Pulling all of this off takes a lot practice but so far in my experience it’s pretty effective. It’s not easy sometimes but hold the course you should be to plan out your maneuvers a few turns in advance to make it happen.

Playing against the Fireball like this is akin to getting punched in the face for five turns and then you deliver a haymaker in the 6 ^th . I haven’t lost to the fireball yet but have tied it a few times and so far have generally beaten it but never with a 10-0 win. I think players in my group are catching on because people are starting to play aggressively against it and the Fireball lists almost never walk away with 10-0 wins anymore. I get the sneaking suspicion that with the tournament season about to start the Fireball won’t be so prevalent because of this.

I'd figure I share my thoughts since the Fireball always seems to be the elephant in the room when discussing lists. Apologies ahead of time if you find none of the above helpful.

I really like your observations and tips. As another option, I am going to augment my AFMKIIs to be A's instead of B's for more anti-fighter potential in the next tournament I'm in. I'll let you know how that goes.

I will add, that the Empire has the best counter to the Fireball in a Howlrunner/Dengar ball with 2 TIE Interceptors. If you really want to guarantee success, add in IG88, and Flight Controllers on your carrier. You will just spray out antisquadron dice, even in death. Even on the cheap, Interceptors are the way to go, they shred Firesprays, even as they die, making them easy prey for the antisquadron guns of your ships.

Some strong points, and a viable strategy for sure. However, I will say that Dash + 2x A-Wings are really pushing the fine line of being able to hold up the Firesprays for a bit, and dying within 2 turns. My regular Fireball opponent uses the AA of the ISD and supporting Raiders as squadron support, combined with squadron commands so he can break free easier. Vader is a real workhorse as he's basically able to one-round a A-Wing with a decent roll. Dash and 2 As feel pretty light to me, as I've basically converted to 4x YT-2400s at this point. They're 64 points, but they last a bit longer and throw more dice so you can potentially catch something over extended out. Like you said in the article, it's a pretty big shh sandwich that you have to bite into. At that point, you're just going to accept that some of the Fireball WILL go unmolested, so you'll have to prepare for damage either way.

Another note to mention here is that once you're stuck in, you're stuck in until you kill something to get free. The Fireball player has the activational advantage not in the sense that he's first player, but rather he can choose to move his superior forces in the manner that he wants because he has Dengar. This is another advantage of issuing squadron commands as the Fireball player, because being able to move squadrons around after you're "stuck" is the key in maintaining damage vs. wasting the Fireball completely. That's the key to the Fireball and one of the reasons why I feel it is, and will remain a potent threat for at least the duration of Wave 2. It also helps that for +9 points over a ISD-II with the build above, you're near tripling the damage of the ISD-II from much further range.

Good post.

I will add, that the Empire has the best counter to the Fireball in a Howlrunner/Dengar ball with 2 TIE Interceptors. If you really want to guarantee success, add in IG88, and Flight Controllers on your carrier. You will just spray out antisquadron dice, even in death. Even on the cheap, Interceptors are the way to go, they shred Firesprays, even as they die, making them easy prey for the antisquadron guns of your ships.

I think that with 2 Tie Advanced, Dengar, and Mithel you could get the same level of achievement. Mithel is the important part here. You can also flavor this by adding in more Advanced and some Firesprays of your own.

Some strong points, and a viable strategy for sure. However, I will say that Dash + 2x A-Wings are really pushing the fine line of being able to hold up the Firesprays for a bit, and dying within 2 turns. My regular Fireball opponent uses the AA of the ISD and supporting Raiders as squadron support, combined with squadron commands so he can break free easier. Vader is a real workhorse as he's basically able to one-round a A-Wing with a decent roll. Dash and 2 As feel pretty light to me, as I've basically converted to 4x YT-2400s at this point. They're 64 points, but they last a bit longer and throw more dice so you can potentially catch something over extended out. Like you said in the article, it's a pretty big shh sandwich that you have to bite into. At that point, you're just going to accept that some of the Fireball WILL go unmolested, so you'll have to prepare for damage either way.

Another note to mention here is that once you're stuck in, you're stuck in until you kill something to get free. The Fireball player has the activational advantage not in the sense that he's first player, but rather he can choose to move his superior forces in the manner that he wants because he has Dengar. This is another advantage of issuing squadron commands as the Fireball player, because being able to move squadrons around after you're "stuck" is the key in maintaining damage vs. wasting the Fireball completely. That's the key to the Fireball and one of the reasons why I feel it is, and will remain a potent threat for at least the duration of Wave 2. It also helps that for +9 points over a ISD-II with the build above, you're near tripling the damage of the ISD-II from much further range.

I'd concur about pushing it with only the three fighters but I generally go by the averages and I value the extra speed of the A-Wing. Darth Vader generally shouldn't kill and A-Wing in one shot but of course it can happen. All valid points though all the same.

Good post.

Glad you like it. Might start doing write ups like this for most ships.

Some strong points, and a viable strategy for sure. However, I will say that Dash + 2x A-Wings are really pushing the fine line of being able to hold up the Firesprays for a bit, and dying within 2 turns. My regular Fireball opponent uses the AA of the ISD and supporting Raiders as squadron support, combined with squadron commands so he can break free easier. Vader is a real workhorse as he's basically able to one-round a A-Wing with a decent roll. Dash and 2 As feel pretty light to me, as I've basically converted to 4x YT-2400s at this point. They're 64 points, but they last a bit longer and throw more dice so you can potentially catch something over extended out. Like you said in the article, it's a pretty big shh sandwich that you have to bite into. At that point, you're just going to accept that some of the Fireball WILL go unmolested, so you'll have to prepare for damage either way.

Another note to mention here is that once you're stuck in, you're stuck in until you kill something to get free. The Fireball player has the activational advantage not in the sense that he's first player, but rather he can choose to move his superior forces in the manner that he wants because he has Dengar. This is another advantage of issuing squadron commands as the Fireball player, because being able to move squadrons around after you're "stuck" is the key in maintaining damage vs. wasting the Fireball completely. That's the key to the Fireball and one of the reasons why I feel it is, and will remain a potent threat for at least the duration of Wave 2. It also helps that for +9 points over a ISD-II with the build above, you're near tripling the damage of the ISD-II from much further range.

I'd concur about pushing it with only the three fighters but I generally go by the averages and I value the extra speed of the A-Wing. Darth Vader generally shouldn't kill and A-Wing in one shot but of course it can happen. All valid points though all the same.

Sadly Darth Vader's damage average is about 3 i believe. . .

I've been running Jan Ors, 2x X-Wings, 2x A-Wings to good effect as a take-all-comers minimal squadron build. Yes, the Xs and Moldy Crow are slower, but they're not so slow that you can't get them into good position while the As can split off and take shots early if needed.

The key to dismantling Fireballs, at least as I've found so far, is to be where Vader isn't. He can't Escort everything on his own, so use Ors' Intel to keep moving around him with Squadron commands and tearing the guts out of the ball. Now if your opponent takes 2 TIE Advanced instead of him (or him and a TIE Advanced) you're way more screwed...

If I start running into real issues with a canny opponent, I'll probably try to find points to upgrade an A-Wing to Tycho to help out some. The Falcon, positioned well, can also do a ton of damage to a Fireball.

You definitely have the right mindset that you're playing a delaying game. The more of their squadrons you can engage, forcing them waste commands repositioning their assets to protect and intel their Firesprays, the better it is for you. Killing the Fireball is a happy bonus compared to trying to get them into a situation where they have to move Firesprays to be able to get Vader/Dengar room to cover everyone.

The best way to counter the fireball is to go dark side and get IG88 with a supporting cast.....

Good points in the original post.

I've been playing hybrid balls recently to offset some of the counters and to be more effective vs opposing rhymerballs myself. There is less anti-ship but some wicked anti-squad synergies.

If I run a more "pure" fireball I will now also run a naked raider with it as a "force multiplier" that can help burn down fighters trying to tie down the ball and/or boost out with a banked token and command to suicide ram things as needed.

I just set up to turn 3 tie the fire ball up so turn 3 and 4 it's locked down by then I am so far pat them I'm not to concerned and if you can lock down or kill rhymer then it's a lot less scary. I know with advanceds that's hard but you can atleast tie them up for 2 turns if not more. I always take tyco for his ability to disengage and go where needed plus he is pretty cheap and has good tokens

Great post. I got my ass kicked by a fireball twice in the last weekend, although the second was close as I almost killed all of his capital ships.

Makes me think a lot more about using the anti-squadron dice on the ISD, Glad-II and Raider. Whittling them down when you can hit six squadrons in one barrage is not a bad use of their firepower.

I also relooked at Ruthless Strategists, but decided it was still garbage!

Great post. I got my ass kicked by a fireball twice in the last weekend, although the second was close as I almost killed all of his capital ships.

Makes me think a lot more about using the anti-squadron dice on the ISD, Glad-II and Raider. Whittling them down when you can hit six squadrons in one barrage is not a bad use of their firepower.

I also relooked at Ruthless Strategists, but decided it was still garbage!

Ruthless strategists favour squadron lite builds and non carrier ships (aka with no squadron management upgrades). Squadron lite because you gain more benefit from having less numbers of squadrons engaged with the opponent than outnumbering him.

It favours minimal amounts of TIE Advanced, YV-666 or token sacrificial fighters. Considering it's also applicable regardless of whether you hit or not, having long range and large pools of AA works better (ISD 2). Now, why would you put that on an ISD 2 versus a Gunnery Team you might ask ? I've found in my local meta that they were trained avoiding front arcs of VSDs (which are wider) so that there would never be 2 ships in the front arc (and they'd rather take 2 reds on the side than 3 on the front). So, I'm pretty sure that arc dodging an ISD is easy. Besides, you don't really want the ISDs to go straight up, but rather slightly at an angle so you can cover a larger area and angle for pursuit.

The best way to counter the fireball is to go dark side and get IG88 with a supporting cast.....

Great post. I got my ass kicked by a fireball twice in the last weekend, although the second was close as I almost killed all of his capital ships.

Makes me think a lot more about using the anti-squadron dice on the ISD, Glad-II and Raider. Whittling them down when you can hit six squadrons in one barrage is not a bad use of their firepower.

I also relooked at Ruthless Strategists, but decided it was still garbage!

Ruthless strategists favour squadron lite builds and non carrier ships (aka with no squadron management upgrades). Squadron lite because you gain more benefit from having less numbers of squadrons engaged with the opponent than outnumbering him.

It favours minimal amounts of TIE Advanced, YV-666 or token sacrificial fighters. Considering it's also applicable regardless of whether you hit or not, having long range and large pools of AA works better (ISD 2). Now, why would you put that on an ISD 2 versus a Gunnery Team you might ask ? I've found in my local meta that they were trained avoiding front arcs of VSDs (which are wider) so that there would never be 2 ships in the front arc (and they'd rather take 2 reds on the side than 3 on the front). So, I'm pretty sure that arc dodging an ISD is easy. Besides, you don't really want the ISDs to go straight up, but rather slightly at an angle so you can cover a larger area and angle for pursuit.

Geez thinking about it, Imps definitely seem to have the easier time. Hell if you really wanted to you could just drown them in generic ties and use ruthless strategist just to kill a few key pieces without breaking a sweat.

Preview for upcoming article: In Defence of Defiance... for those interested of course and I'll try to include some anti MC80 advice so the article will be interesting for everyone.

I'd concur about pushing it with only the three fighters but I generally go by the averages and I value the extra speed of the A-Wing. Darth Vader generally shouldn't kill and A-Wing in one shot but of course it can happen. All valid points though all the same.

Sadly Darth Vader's damage average is about 3 i believe. . .

3.25, yes. Vader is a beast.

0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 1.0

I'd concur about pushing it with only the three fighters but I generally go by the averages and I value the extra speed of the A-Wing. Darth Vader generally shouldn't kill and A-Wing in one shot but of course it can happen. All valid points though all the same.

Sadly Darth Vader's damage average is about 3 i believe. . .

3.25, yes. Vader is a beast.

0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 1.0

Which is why I hate him but I'm thankful they decided to give A-Wings 4 health.

I'd concur about pushing it with only the three fighters but I generally go by the averages and I value the extra speed of the A-Wing. Darth Vader generally shouldn't kill and A-Wing in one shot but of course it can happen. All valid points though all the same.

Sadly Darth Vader's damage average is about 3 i believe. . .

3.25, yes. Vader is a beast.

0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 1.0

Vader desires FC above all else. And his buddy Dengar. And Boosted Comms.

Imperials definitely have the best counter. You can have double the bases for the same cost and swarm generic TIEs.