So looking at the Mist hunter Preview. It is definitely shows similar charismatics of the B-wing (High firepower, low agility slower dial.) One thing I remember about the Wave 3 meta where BBBB and Bigs walks the dogs competed with TIE Swarm for dominance the 3x3 mat was crowded and often you see a big cluster in the center with ships trying to blast their way out. When I looked at it I though of it similar to a 40k melee with models locked in each other and not much maneuvering but just piling in. B-wing were the champion of that type of fight with adv sensors allowing them to take actions before moving so they maintained their potent firepower when other ships will have to rely on naked dice. It died down when the Swarm fell to the Phantom and the huge ship 2 ship meta climbed to dominance.

So the new B-wing brings in a weapon called the tractor beam which could move ships into that type of engagement once again. Not to mention the Zeb crew card (put it in a B-wing E2) which allows for attacks when touching a ship makes me wonder is FFG trying to bring back those type of fights into the meta?

So will these type of scrums shown in the picture below start to become common in the competitive scene?

Please, I don't play 40k and never want to. But all the cool 3D obstacles and tons of units on a small field look really cool.

4 vs 6 or 7? Still not anywhere near that effect.

Xwing feels cluttered cuz the templates and dice and **** are EVERYWHERE. Tokens. Dials.

Sorry. I'm totally off topic.

--

There are so many options now its hard to tell what's going to happen. We have data overflow. Overabundance of options, which will lead I think to a very exciting meta in a year or so. But dang. I'm overwhelmed.

I think XXBB just isn't going to cut it anymore though still. The ace pilots are just gonna tear it apart. At that time, people didn't fly aces that well, and they weren't nearly as powerful as they are now.

XXBBZ has good options.

Losing that Z might well cost you unless you pick up really solid tech for your troubles.

Please, I don't play 40k and never want to. But all the cool 3D obstacles and tons of units on a small field look really cool.

4 vs 6 or 7? Still not anywhere near that effect.

Xwing feels cluttered cuz the templates and dice and **** are EVERYWHERE. Tokens. Dials.

Sorry. I'm totally off topic.

--

There are so many options now its hard to tell what's going to happen. We have data overflow. Overabundance of options, which will lead I think to a very exciting meta in a year or so. But dang. I'm overwhelmed.

I think XXBB just isn't going to cut it anymore though still. The ace pilots are just gonna tear it apart. At that time, people didn't fly aces that well, and they weren't nearly as powerful as they are now.

Not too far on a tangent and yes I don't think a 40K style static model pile on fits the theme of X-wing. But I am just wondering if we will once again have to 4 or 5 (or more) ship pile up back on the meta. Again as I was pointing at the Wave 4 meta it was common to see a 6 ship bumping-pile up. I'm just wondering if you think Wave 8 will bring those back again?

I hope so.

With cards like Crackshot and Juke and TLT and Long Range Scanners/Guidance Chimps and Integrated Astromech and the TIE Advance buffs and now tractor beam, generics are getting the tools they need to compete with Acewing BS.

You'll be able to throw a Missile on a Z with Guidance Chimps and have it actually accomplish something.

You'll be able to get a lucky Tractor Beam off on Soontir, pull him closer, and pound him when he only has 2 agility.

We of course know what TLT has done.

X-Wings can now compete with B-Wings.

1 health fat turrets/IG's no longer lose you games because they bleed MoV just like every other type of list does.

TIE Advance generics are now good.

Green Squadron A-Wings with PTL and Juke are nasty and durable with hull upgrade/Autothrusters.

TIE Fighters actually have a chance to damage things now with Crackshot. Same with the FO's.

It's a real shame that Scum is getting a Super Dash and that rebel Super Dash is getting an entirely green dial. Need to please the ten year olds smearing ice cream on their face. We buff all the generic stuff and then we /still/ need to have Super Dash autowin against it.

So looking at the Mist hunter Preview. It is definitely shows similar charismatics of the B-wing (High firepower, low agility slower dial.) One thing I remember about the Wave 3 meta where BBBB and Bigs walks the dogs competed with TIE Swarm for dominance the 3x3 mat was crowded and often you see a big cluster in the center with ships trying to blast their way out. When I looked at it I though of it similar to a 40k melee with models locked in each other and not much maneuvering but just piling in. B-wing were the champion of that type of fight with adv sensors allowing them to take actions before moving so they maintained their potent firepower when other ships will have to rely on naked dice. It died down when the Swarm fell to the Phantom and the huge ship 2 ship meta climbed to dominance.

So the new B-wing brings in a weapon called the tractor beam which could move ships into that type of engagement once again. Not to mention the Zeb crew card (put it in a B-wing E2) which allows for attacks when touching a ship makes me wonder is FFG trying to bring back those type of fights into the metta?

B-wing is not viable now.

BR-less G1 isn't more viable

v_v

Poor G1

So looking at the Mist hunter Preview. It is definitely shows similar charismatics of the B-wing (High firepower, low agility slower dial.) One thing I remember about the Wave 3 meta where BBBB and Bigs walks the dogs competed with TIE Swarm for dominance the 3x3 mat was crowded and often you see a big cluster in the center with ships trying to blast their way out. When I looked at it I though of it similar to a 40k melee with models locked in each other and not much maneuvering but just piling in. B-wing were the champion of that type of fight with adv sensors allowing them to take actions before moving so they maintained their potent firepower when other ships will have to rely on naked dice. It died down when the Swarm fell to the Phantom and the huge ship 2 ship meta climbed to dominance.

So the new B-wing brings in a weapon called the tractor beam which could move ships into that type of engagement once again. Not to mention the Zeb crew card (put it in a B-wing E2) which allows for attacks when touching a ship makes me wonder is FFG trying to bring back those type of fights into the metta?

B-wing is not viable now.

BR-less G1 isn't more viable

v_v

Poor G1

Sorry but not asking if the B-wing is viable but if the meta is moving from this

to this

See the whole traffic jam in the second picture. Will we be seeing more of these type of cluster furballs in the competitive scene of X-wing after Wave 9? Some of you may not have known but this was the norm for tournament matches in Wave 3. There was sort of a scrum strategy to this type of dog fight but the B-wings were the best at this scrum.

(note: I know the rebel ships are more than 100 points in this picture but this is the best example of a scrum I can find. Just pretend the E-wings are A-wings.)

It's rather a fight between a couple aces and TLT platforms, not clusterf... furballs

with first trying to stay at R1 behind and the other party trying to fly at R3 as long as possible

SPACE JESUS! Is taht a 3-skill E-wing?

It's like seeing a ghost
*faints in theatrical manner

It's rather a fight between a couple aces and TLT platforms, not clusterf... furballs

with first trying to stay at R1 behind and the other party trying to fly at R3 as long as possible

Yeah I know that is what the meta currently is. So I am assuming you think the meta won't change at all after Wave 8.

X-Wings can now compete with B-Wings.

I can agree with most you say, but this is now where i have my doubts again, because the B-Wing can take the Tractor beam, and if you have something like 4 Bs with Tractors and FCS flying around, that really gives them a huge flexibility for few points that the X-Wings will not get.

Concerning the "acewing BS", now that's your personal opinion and preference. Some like playing fully kitted out aces, while others prefer battles between generc pilots. But that does not make ace lists "BS" or any less fun to play.

It's rather a fight between a couple aces and TLT platforms, not clusterf... furballs

with first trying to stay at R1 behind and the other party trying to fly at R3 as long as possible

Yeah I know that is what the meta currently is. So I am assuming you think the meta won't change at all after Wave 8.

I truly doubt that tractors, almost_B_wings and a scum PWT will clear either aces or TLTs

more than that, I'm afraid the G1 fears both the TLT and ace alike.

just as the punishing toilet seat. PWT fears TLTs like flames

Inquisitor? Cool, another arcdodger >_>

Will the Grav-Vessery be such an impact to DERP the ace-TLT meta? Maybe, no playtesting

maybe rebel veterans and Mercenary Veterans will change the meta? who knows.

You know, you don't HAVE to fly right into the middle of the enemies ships with all of your ships right?

It's rather a fight between a couple aces and TLT platforms, not clusterf... furballs

with first trying to stay at R1 behind and the other party trying to fly at R3 as long as possible

Yeah I know that is what the meta currently is. So I am assuming you think the meta won't change at all after Wave 8.

I truly doubt that tractors, almost_B_wings and a scum PWT will clear either aces or TLTs

more than that, I'm afraid the G1 fears both the TLT and ace alike.

just as the punishing toilet seat. PWT fears TLTs like flames

Inquisitor? Cool, another arcdodger >_>

Will the Grav-Vessery be such an impact to DERP the ace-TLT meta? Maybe, no playtesting

maybe rebel veterans and Mercenary Veterans will change the meta? who knows.

About the TLTs, the Tractor beams can offer a great way to either push them out of range or pull them into range 1, or ideally onto an asteroid or out of the playground!. If you have the initiative over them, even better. So you can minimize shots on certain of your ships while denying them a lot of their own strengths.

not sure about the G1-a

personally don't think we'll be seeing much of it, sadly. Great offensive tech; still squishy. Maybe 4-LOM will make a showing

still, if crackswarm didn't change things back to furballs; nothing will.

now Jumpy will be a-okay. Deadeye + plasmas + munitions + r4 + GC = 34 points of immediate, fully modified better-than-hlcs. They will tear a hole through TLTs

won't be much of a *********** meta unless they face TLTs and aces exclusively, in which case Int agent can engineer some incredibly infuriating furballs

You know, you don't HAVE to fly right into the middle of the enemies ships with all of your ships right?

Sometimes you might want to. With the Thug life or other TLT squadrons it might be a good idea to run itno contact with a TLT Y-wing and then drag anther thug/gold tlt Y-wing with the tractor beam into range 1. The TLT squadrons work by having ships spaced out at intervarls to support each other. Take those out by forcing them into a cluster and it will cease to function.

It's rather a fight between a couple aces and TLT platforms, not clusterf... furballs

with first trying to stay at R1 behind and the other party trying to fly at R3 as long as possible

Yeah I know that is what the meta currently is. So I am assuming you think the meta won't change at all after Wave 8.

I truly doubt that tractors, almost_B_wings and a scum PWT will clear either aces or TLTs

more than that, I'm afraid the G1 fears both the TLT and ace alike.

just as the punishing toilet seat. PWT fears TLTs like flames

Inquisitor? Cool, another arcdodger >_>

Will the Grav-Vessery be such an impact to DERP the ace-TLT meta? Maybe, no playtesting

maybe rebel veterans and Mercenary Veterans will change the meta? who knows.

Yeah I will have to agree. Aces tend to take 50%-100% more points than a generic ship. IF you have 2 aces you are removing a ship and the lower ship count means less bumping and overlaps and furballs. It might be a good counter to 4 TLT-wings jsut to get all the Y-wing bunched up together so they can't cover each other with TLTs anymore. But against Palpmobile or the 2 ship meta of Waves 5-6 then yeah that will not happen as there would be plenty of room to maneuver no matter how you place the obstacles.

You know, you don't HAVE to fly right into the middle of the enemies ships with all of your ships right?

LIES!

not sure about the G1-a

personally don't think we'll be seeing much of it, sadly. Great offensive tech; still squishy. Maybe 4-LOM will make a showing

still, if crackswarm didn't change things back to furballs; nothing will.

now Jumpy will be a-okay. Deadeye + plasmas + munitions + r4 + GC = 34 points of immediate, fully modified better-than-hlcs. They will tear a hole through TLTs

won't be much of a *********** meta unless they face TLTs and aces exclusively, in which case Int agent can engineer some incredibly infuriating furballs

6x Crackshot lists haven't changed the meta because few people have 6 Crackshots. So it may be good but it's not very common and people can just cross their fingers and hope they don't get matched against it.

Out of all my games, even with swarm lists, I think I've seen something that has happened in those above pictures a handful of times...

LIES!

not sure about the G1-a

personally don't think we'll be seeing much of it, sadly. Great offensive tech; still squishy. Maybe 4-LOM will make a showing

still, if crackswarm didn't change things back to furballs; nothing will.

now Jumpy will be a-okay. Deadeye + plasmas + munitions + r4 + GC = 34 points of immediate, fully modified better-than-hlcs. They will tear a hole through TLTs

won't be much of a *********** meta unless they face TLTs and aces exclusively, in which case Int agent can engineer some incredibly infuriating furballs

6x Crackshot lists haven't changed the meta because few people have 6 Crackshots. So it may be good but it's not very common and people can just cross their fingers and hope they don't get matched against it.

If Kihraxz was a biiiiit better

people would

I think aces are taking a hit, even with the new toys. Adaptability IS going to skew ps bids. The result I believe isn't what we (I anyway) would of expected at first glance, which is more varied ps and possibly less ps bidding. I say this after testing with it for only a single full day but still its potential impact is there when the goal is to push down the cost of each ship while maintaining effectiveness.

Control elements exist in combinations that are just pure ugly now and not just limited to the stresshog who is the precursor. Costly and fragile (pt per health and damage output) aces have traditionally been good at handling generics and while thats still true, now its much closer matched only they suffer more from damage spike abilities and control. Things like tractors/ions/bombs/munitions/etc.

So yea I think ship count is going up. Whether they all end up in the middle is another story..

Control elements

Are mostly limited to single faction.

Ability to stack 2 stress onto some ace face without requiring you to hit it

requires either a stress-Y or a TLTactician. While putting one onto HWK might work, it's not a KuKluxStressKlan rebels have

The new Tractor beam is a control element however, and you get it for all factions. It might best be run on Defenders, but it's sure not bad on B-Wings or Scyks either.

Don't forget that Aces with higher PS and tractor beam can put you onto an asteroid or out of arc or whatever earlier than you can. So i don't kow if they are at such a disadvantage.

On other ships, i don't know if you want to sacrifice your Aces shot for control, but on the Defender With title both don't exclude each other, so their aces are much better off than others.

Any time a Bwing fires gravgun instead of regular weapon it's a bad day.

because even if there are 3 more B-wings, it's statistically around 1 damage to the target (3\8 evade per die)

ace with higher PS who toys with you instead of damaging you is a LOL

stress-control is 90% rebel feature now

grav-control is not problematic only on Grav-vessery.

pelase, abstain of mentioning scyks. they are so freaking underpowered it's not even funny

It's a real shame that Scum is getting a Super Dash

Citation needed.

Need to please the ten year olds smearing ice cream on their face. We buff all the generic stuff and then we /still/ need to have Super Dash autowin against it.

Super Dash isn't even close to auto win these days, maybe instead of constantly insulting players who like that ship you should instead learn how to beat it.