Hey folks.

I had made a comment in another thread about being miffed that the Phantoms got nerfed. Having not played in the tournament circuit, I didn't realize that it was being played in 50% of the lists at tournies...making it rather boring for people playing non-phantom lists.

So, only having seen the Phantom played in the original form...and then buying two of them and being told that they are now junk...I am wondering if they are still good in the new format??? I have not seen a Phantom on the table after the Cloaking/Decloaking change. I think I know how it works now. I am asking...are they still good? Are they worth the points?? I haven't seen a list with a phantom in it in ages.

Thanks

Phantoms now need to predict enemy movement, their decloak can tell the enemy where it might end, and act accordingly (dodge dat arc)

In other words: it's not a no-brainer now.

Still viable. Not OP.

p.s. why did you buy two? There was room only for PS9 whisper even back then >_>

Absolutely. And note, it wasn't that Phantoms were everywhere, Whisper w/ VI, FCS, ACD, and Gunner/Tactician was everywhere. It basically meant that if you weren't PS10+ (or a PWT), you pretty much auto lost. You had a chance at PS9, but you were unlikely to outbid the Phantom player, so you were still going to move before Whisper.

Note - I was (am?) not in the camp that thought they were over powered, I actually came up with a quality list that handled them very well, even though my highest PS was 4, but they WERE boring to play against. Furthermore, it greatly restricted build variety. You had to have a way to handle Whisper, which basically restricted you to PS10 or PWT (I did it with a combo of a HLC B wing, R3-A2 E wing, and Roark - but it wasn't easy, and wouldn't work without those 3 ships).

It's no longer an easy ship to fly that's for sure the decloak and movement being separated means it's alot easier to land yourself in a bad spot.

That tied with the fact it's got a low number of hit points makes it a risky choice these days.

Not junk just no longer the top tier pick.

Phantom/Decimator got to the final table in a 43 player Store Champ in Atlanta. Stomped my TLT/Ion Warthog list in the final 4.

Captain Oicunn + Emperor Palpatine + Ysanne Isard + Ion Projector + Predator

Whisper + Agent Kallus + Fire-Control System + Advanced Cloaking Device + Veteran Instincts

As a proud owner of 3, and having used them in a triple list. Yes. SJ and particle accelerator make the generics truly fearsome little ships.

One of the best things about the phantoms now aside of the 4 attack, is their pilot skill. a 3 and 5, the generic ships are able to beat most TLT platforms. I've used a few Phantoms with some success simply focus firing down TLT Y-Wings - even with all their hull, a couple 4-attack (or 5 at r1) attacks, especially if the Emperor is backing you up, can really wreck faces pretty quick if you are firing first.

Absolutely. And note, it wasn't that Phantoms were everywhere, Whisper w/ VI, FCS, ACD, and Gunner/Tactician was everywhere. It basically meant that if you weren't PS10+ (or a PWT), you pretty much auto lost. You had a chance at PS9, but you were unlikely to outbid the Phantom player, so you were still going to move before Whisper.

psst

there was

a

SECRET WEAPON

against the buttcrap called whisper

MUAHAHA

JINGLE STRESS, JINGLE STRESS,

OICUNN ALL THE WAY

I have four phantoms. Because phantom swarm can be a fun and nasty surprise. Also Epic.

Also Echo sigma sigma is a thing, and it can/could be brutal.

Want to try something fun? Try this:

Younster with squad leader

Howlrunner

Night Beast

2 basic phantoms

That's 3 ships that can use the squad leader ability to reposition phantoms or make sure they end up with a focus and evade token (which make them unattractive targets).

Phantoms now need to predict enemy movement, their decloak can tell the enemy where it might end, and act accordingly (dodge dat arc)

In other words: it's not a no-brainer now.

Still viable. Not OP.

p.s. why did you buy two? There was room only for PS9 whisper even back then >_>

At their height, occasionally you'd run into an 84 point double-phantom list that did fairly well at tournaments, even with the 16 point handicap.

That gave proof to FFG that the thing needed a nerf

Funny thing is they nerfed phantoms to get rid of fat turrets then they stuck around anyway.

Now with TLT in the game I think they could unerf it honestly.

No, no one is doing well with them any more.

Kallus is a great addition for any list fly the generic Phantoms. You can then take SJ and ACD and then evade as your action as well to have a effective evade/focus against the one ship you chose from the start. (I'm assuming it'd be the turret ship you fear the most of not being able to arc dodge) Then you light that same ship up with 3 attacks with 4 - 5 dice and take it off the board.

I see a decent number of Phantoms in my local scene, although I've seen more Echo than Whisper of late.

Whisper is still great versus shield tankers (since you're always going to do at least 2 damage) and TLTs (because tananana). Just remember to take initiative if you're playing against Fel or non-VI Vader.

Wow...this is great stuff.

So I want to make sure I am correct...the ACD still works the same as before...you fire with your Phantom and immediately re-cloak??

If so, that's not so bad.

Thanks for all this guys.

Wow...this is great stuff.

So I want to make sure I am correct...the ACD still works the same as before...you fire with your Phantom and immediately re-cloak??

If so, that's not so bad.

Thanks for all this guys.

Hey Shaner, I replied to you in the other thread, so I thought I'd repeat it here...

Phantoms are still great ships. Whisper is still a power pilot that can do it all. The nerf introduced some very nice options and skill into playing phantoms, that's all. Phantoms were the forbidden fruit when I started playing - they were clearly OP and were looked down upon by opponents as something akin to cheating. When the nerf hit I felt relieved, as I wanted to play them so much, and now felt guilt-free in my appreciation of them. They're classy as hell and hit like a bag of ball bearings.

Having said that, If you're looking at ways to play them in the current climate, I'd recommend a few options:

1) Intel agent. It can approximate the effect that a phantom previously had: worse, in that it only works on one ship and has a range restriction, better, in that you can peek at ships that have higher ps than you - a common problem with the rise of the new rebel sweetheart, r2-d2 vi poe. ... The price you pay is that lovely crew slot. How bad do you need that old phantom ability, is the question?

2) Recon specialist is very important for Echo, imo. She needs that spare focus because with her lower ps, she will be catching som decloaked shots.

3) if you have a tlt-heavy playing circle, then Whisper really needs sensor jammer. If I was taking her out in a tournament (and I think I will be soon...) I'd want this on her. The alternative is seeing her chewed up by a bunch of tlt thugs. Girl's practically royalty in my books, so I can't have that!

Don't give up on them - they're even more rewarding to win with now that they demand more skill. Also, tlts and poe have everyone worrying about them, so nobody's planning for whisper any more...

Here's my list; the philosophy is high damage and winning the final duel. I'd be happy taking any of these three ships into the endgame....

“Whisper” (42) TIE Phantom (32), Intelligence Agent (1), Sensor Jammer (4), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

“Omega Leader” (26) TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Darth Vader (32) TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

One of the stores in the San Diego area just had their store champs tournament. 3/4 of the cut had Whisper. First place had tactician and the other two had Kallus. I'm not sure what they had in the Systems slot. The first place guy had also won the SoCal regionals with Whisper.

This is the list that won the last tournament I was in (that's right, no stealth device).. https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!79:-1,36,-1:-1:9:;56:-1,-1,132,-1:-1:-1:;28:18:-1:15:

I was running a list that would have made it cry but never got to play against it.

Given the nerfs, I think the named pilots are overcosted atm, Phantoms are still great, just not hilariously op.

The neo-phantom has a very high skill cap, and lives and dies based on your ability to predict movement.

I flew it recently for the first time since being nerfed, and I definitely think they're still useful. They aren't stupid-broken-OP, which is great. When flown well, they're definitely worth the points. The new cloak mechanic also makes generics more plausible.

Phantoms are still great ships. Whisper is still a power pilot that can do it all. The nerf introduced some very nice options and skill into playing phantoms, that's all. Phantoms were the forbidden fruit when I started playing - they were clearly OP and were looked down upon by opponents as something akin to cheating. When the nerf hit I felt relieved, as I wanted to play them so much, and now felt guilt-free in my appreciation of them. They're classy as hell and hit like a bag of ball bearings.

Its like you broke inside my head and stole my thoughts. I wouldn't touch the Phantom pre-nerf because I felt there was a...stigma. It was too easy. Too powerful. Now they are one of my favorite ships.