Hey there! I'm new to this forum and I did recently start with EotE as GM. We will play our third session, where the players will visit Dantooine, next weekend. The goal is for the Jedi PC to acquire a lightsaber crystal in the Crystal caves (known to the Jedi player because he has some decent lore rating/ sage career). At the same time they should have a first contact with dark side force users, since I want to show them that seeking Jedi legends can be very dangerous (yet profitable).

This is my Idea: The two Sith apprentice twin brothers John and Pash Coral are currently on Dantooine because their master had a vision of a young Jedi visiting the crystal caves. They are sent there to investigate because he hopes for them to gain a chance to kill their first "Jedi". He does not, however, sense that the Jedi has some companions with him that should make the fight much harder for his apprentices.

After the players have acquired a lightsaber crystal (I'll call it Adegan crystal and give it the stats of a Ilum crystal) and installed it (this takes only a few minutes, right?) they will be confronted by the two apprentices, each of them armed with a basic Ilum lightsaber and armored clothing. The goal of this encounter is to offer the players a challenging fight that should end with one apprentice dead and the second one escaping because I would like him to become a recurring villain for the campaign.

Now I do need some help with two things:

1. The stats of the apprentices. They should be dangerous opponents that can potentially take down 1-2 of the players or at least inflict some critical Injuries. To prevent them from being killed in the first 1-2 rounds of combat I will probably give them some ranks in parry/ reflect and therefore a lightsaber form. This could however be very hard to handle because two characters with lightsabers and decent skill ranks might accidentally wipe the group.. so what should I aim for in terms of wound threshold, soak, dice pool and force powers for the apprentices? Similar to a PC with the same amount of XP?

My players (got 55 XP in the first two adventures):

• Hired Gun/ Bodyguard, usually armed with a blaster rifle, 4 agility and 1-2 ranged (heavy) and ranged (light), durable, barrage and defensive stance.
• Jedi Sage/ Niman disciple. 4 Wisdom, parry I and reflect I, 1 Lightsaber skill, armored clothing, basic lightsaber
• Smuggler/ Pilot, 4 agility, dual heavy blasters, 1-2 ranged (light)
• Mechanic, 2 agility, blaster rifle/ pistol, agility 2, ranged 1.

2. If possible I would like to keep one of the apprentices alive. Any Ideas how to do accomplish that? I don't expect my players to show mercy and it would undermine the credibility of the villain if he runs from the fight after his brother was killed, wouldn't it? So maybe have a battalion of storm troopers enter the cave and open fire to force the players to run as soon as the first apprentice drops? Or have the sith rally a horde of kinrath and direct them to the players? Any inputs would be welcome!

Many thanks in advance!

This is my Idea: The two Sith apprentice twin brothers John and Pash Coral are currently on Dantooine because their master had a vision of a young Jedi visiting the crystal caves. They are sent there to investigate because he hopes for them to gain a chance to kill their first "Jedi".

Now I do need some help with two things:

1. The stats of the apprentices. They should be dangerous opponents that can potentially take down 1-2 of the players or at least inflict some critical Injuries. To prevent them from being killed in the first 1-2 rounds of combat I will probably give them some ranks in parry/ reflect and therefore a lightsaber form. This could however be very hard to handle because two characters with lightsabers and decent skill ranks might accidentally wipe the group.. so what should I aim for in terms of wound threshold, soak, dice pool and force powers for the apprentices? Similar to a PC with the same amount of XP?

2. If possible I would like to keep one of the apprentices alive. Any Ideas how to do accomplish that? I don't expect my players to show mercy and it would undermine the credibility of the villain if he runs from the fight after his brother was killed, wouldn't it? So maybe have a battalion of storm troopers enter the cave and open fire to force the players to run as soon as the first apprentice drops? Or have the sith rally a horde of kinrath and direct them to the players? Any inputs would be welcome!

Just my two cents... I thought it might be interesting if the Sith twins had an unique fighting style when fighting together against a single target. Essentially, ganging up and concentrating their attacks against their foe. Sort of like old, cheesy kung-fu movies.

I'm a big fan of NPC's having their own stories, goals, and motivations. With that in mind...

1. I'd make them both a Nemesis. Since you want to establish a big villain, I'd suggest making it clear that these guys are, at the present time, powerful and 'out of the league' of the PC's. If a PC acts foolishly in this encounter, well... it could very well be that PC's death sentence. As for stats, I recommend the Fallen Jedi in the NPC stat cards (great product to own). Lacking the cards, there are some NPC characters in the back of the core book.

2. I'd suggest maybe having the Sith twins defeat the PC's rather easily. This will make it clear that the PC's are weak in comparison, and that the PC's should run. At a critical moment, perhaps when a Sith twin is about to deal the final deathblow to a PC, I'd have the other Sith twin betray and kill his twin brother. Perhaps the twin brother who betrays wants to be the one who singlehandedly defeats and kills a Jedi (to impress his master), as well as desires to be their Sith master's only apprentice. During this betrayal witnessed by the PC's, the PC's have a chance to make their exit. I think this introduces a scary, evil nemesis for the group to avoid, and for your Jedi PC to train and defeat one day, hopefully.

Semper Fi.

After the players have acquired a lightsaber crystal (I'll call it Adegan crystal and give it the stats of a Ilum crystal) and installed it (this takes only a few minutes, right?) they will be confronted by the two apprentices, each of them armed with a basic Ilum lightsaber and armored clothing.

Technically making a lightsaber is supposed to take well over a month to craft. The book I, Jedi references that it takes a long time to successfully create a lightsaber and even when Jedi had to make a lightsaber in the middle of a war it would still take a few days to get everything put together. If you want to nitpick then no, it will not "just work" if you go by the EU...but if you want it to work so the story progresses faster, feel free...you are the GM and what you say goes!

I'd suggest maybe having the Sith twins defeat the PC's rather easily. This will make it clear that the PC's are weak in comparison, and that the PC's should run. At a critical moment, perhaps when a Sith twin is about to deal the final deathblow to a PC, I'd have the other Sith twin betray and kill his twin brother. Perhaps the twin brother who betrays wants to be the one who singlehandedly defeats and kills a Jedi (to impress his master), as well as desires to be their Sith master's only apprentice. During this betrayal witnessed by the PC's, the PC's have a chance to make their exit. I think this introduces a scary, evil nemesis for the group to avoid, and for your Jedi PC to train and defeat one day, hopefully.

This! So much this! I was actually going to add a note about a double-cross between the twins then I saw SemperSarge already did!

2. If possible I would like to keep one of the apprentices alive. Any Ideas how to do accomplish that?

Easy! Don't let them fight.

Lets take the villain of any good flick, lets say Belloc from Raiders. First time he shows up in south america with a bunch of native minions, establishing his Badguy-ness and forcing Indy to run away. Then he's surrounded by henchmen in the bar in Cairo, giving him and Indy time to talk, establish him some more and drive the plot forward. He wines and dines a mostly weaponless Marion and throws Indy into a deathtrap. During the Truck Chase, he's mostly in the background while Nazi Goons are plentiful and available for the good guy to knock off. Sure Indy could blow up Belloc, but his "it belongs in a museum"-ness prevents him from blowing up the ark. Finally it's face melty time in the showdown - one villain death when appropriate.

So, lots of screen time for our Heavy, no chance for Indy to kill him.

Same thing for Blofield in any of the 007 flicks. Bond is after more than just "Kill the head of SPECTRE", so he can't go in guns blazing. He needs something more than just assassination - prevent World War III, shut off the doomsday machine, whatever. And of course Blofield has the handy escape hatch* nearby.

* Warning - don't lean on the escape hatch trope too often, or your players will get really annoyed. You can get away with it once, MAAAAAAAYbe twice. Certainly no more than that.

I don't the Force and Destiny rules, but Soresu is a great form that will allow them to defend, and put up a long, intense, fight, without being so powerful as to be incredibly deadly.

Unfortunately, you're going to have a very difficult time planning the result of any combat encounter with out a really obvious railroad. Trying to set up "one dies, one escapes" is especially hard, but let's give it a shot.

Does your group make a habit of finishing off fallen enemies? If you treat the enemies like PCs, it's actually going to be fairly tough to kill them in combat. Basically, you have to hit them with a crit that rolls 131 or higher, or they're just badly maimed and out of the fight. The characters can, of course, finish them off while they're helpless, but this is a pretty heavy Dark Side action. I suppose the Jedi would be the only one to really worry about this, so perhaps you split them up. One brother is modeled after the Shien Expert, and he engages the rest of the group to hold them off, Reflecting their blasters back at them and whatnot.. The other brother is more of a duelist, and he goes for the Jedi.

Run the fights separately, because there are a few outcomes. The Shien Expert is really just there to stall the rest of the group, so let him play a mostly defensive game. If he goes down, it's probably safe to assume they kill him. Even if he wins, he's not really concerned about these peasants, so you don't have to kill off the whole party.

If the Duelist wins, there are a couple ways to play it out, depending what happens with the other brother. I like the idea that the Shien Expert kills his own brother, and perhaps he has a sense of honor not to kill the Jedi. Because, I dunno, he wasn't the one to defeat him or something. He of course tells him that he'll see him again soon, blah blah blah. If the Expert is dead, the Duelist hears the rest of the party coming to aid the Jedi, and makes a break for it.

Now then, if the Duelist loses, chances are he's still alive. He might be way over his Wound or Strain threshold, but if he hasn't taken that horrid Crit, he's at the mercy of a Jedi Knight. You know, a guy with mercy. His brother (if alive) will probably sense his fall and come rushing to him. Perhaps he even still has enough love for his brother that he just wants to take him and leave, and makes this offer to the PC. Of course, such a failure of the Dark Side will anger their master, and perhaps the next encounter has only one brother, scarred and tortured after their master killed the other.

Assembling a lightsaber depends on the person; my Force Sensitiveness Gadgeteer reassembled his first (he had found it in the ruins in a temple in pocession of skeleton crushed under a door, though it's components had started to fail.) in a couple minutes in a sudden fit of inspiration after returning to the ship to pick some gear up using spare parts/ship wiring. Double Triumphs are really sweet. Though not being from the Jedi tradition he's never forged one from scratched, his first crystal carried the spirit of an ancient sith that conceals it's name from him and his second from an inquisitor he killed. To this day he's never discovered how to refine a crystal.

On subject I don't really know. I never count on any antagonist surviving contact with a motivated party, at least a whole motivated party. The key here is to ensure the party is spilt, even the hardiest Nemesis won't survive an entire party going at him without some crazy buffs. Falloon among others have a great suggestions on how to manage this.

The other suggestion is not to have the fight in the temple at all, but have it take place in an otherwise mundane environment where a lot of environmental factors come into play. Picture this; the party is on a magrail train on the way back from their discovery, when a tall, gothic individuals march through the crowd on either flank, shoving people aside as the presence of the darkside ripples through the carriage. The resulting battle is hectic, with flashing blades of red cutting flesh and metal with ease, with potentially people uninvolved being killed to raise the emotional stakes. When either party is being other-powered? Well, trains have windows and doors for a reason, to take the fight elsewhere/escape. Make the engagement in an environment where they are not prepared for it, essentially. Use this trick infrequently though, and only ever for good reason otherwise you might make them paranoid.

Many thanks for the ideas! I will answer each one separately and summ it up in the end.

Technically making a lightsaber is supposed to take well over a month to craft. The book I, Jedi references that it takes a long time to successfully create a lightsaber and even when Jedi had to make a lightsaber in the middle of a war it would still take a few days to get everything put together. If you want to nitpick then no, it will not "just work" if you go by the EU...but if you want it to work so the story progresses faster, feel free...you are the GM and what you say goes!

Meditate on this I will. Maybe I will allow him to insert the crystal right there, because he already has a hilt ready and because he would certainly want to try his new toy. Otherwise I would have to find a way to avoid combat in this encounter.

1. I'd make them both a Nemesis. Since you want to establish a big villain, I'd suggest making it clear that these guys are, at the present time, powerful and 'out of the league' of the PC's. If a PC acts foolishly in this encounter, well... it could very well be that PC's death sentence. As for stats, I recommend the Fallen Jedi in the NPC stat cards (great product to own). Lacking the cards, there are some NPC characters in the back of the core book.

Nemesis seems right, they need a strain threshold to use reflect and parry. They will also gain 1 or 2 ranks in adversary. I don't have the NPC stat cards buy I could probably assemble something between the fallen apprentice and the fallen master in F&D. As far as I know my players I will expect them to fight, and I would also like to make this the first challenging combat encounter of the campaign. They should therefore not be completely out of league for the PC's but the encounter should be built with the players defeat as a possibility which leads to this great Idea of yours:

2. At a critical moment, perhaps when a Sith twin is about to deal the final deathblow to a PC, I'd have the other Sith twin betray and kill his twin brother. Perhaps the twin brother who betrays wants to be the one who singlehandedly defeats and kills a Jedi (to impress his master), as well as desires to be their Sith master's only apprentice. During this betrayal witnessed by the PC's, the PC's have a chance to make their exit. I think this introduces a scary, evil nemesis for the group to avoid, and for your Jedi PC to train and defeat one day, hopefully.

Semper Fi.

This would be very Sith like. I am currently replaying Knights of the old republic and there was this moment where you need to gain access to the Sith academy on Korriban. You can team up with another apprentice to find an artefact together. But you have to betray her and deliver the artefact alone, otherwise she will betray you and take all credit. So this seems like a solid option at the very least for a credible backup plan should my players be defeated. I could offer the bodyguard a hint that he could make the cave collapse if he hits the right spot with his blaster rifle or a grenade.

Easy! Don't let them fight.

This is solid advice in general. I do like to establish villains over time that the players don't get to fight until the right moment. But this one should start with a combat encounter. The only option to introduce them while avoiding combat would require them to look/ act like too dangerous to fight.

The death of both apprentices is still an option if I can't avoid it btw. I don't want to force my players into a unrealistic "you can't kill him right now" situation if the force happens to be with them.

But I would like one to survive if it is possible in a plausible way!

I don't the Force and Destiny rules, but Soresu is a great form that will allow them to defend, and put up a long, intense, fight, without being so powerful as to be incredibly deadly.

I will probably choose a defensive form for at least one of them. But isn't soresu very jedi like? A dark side apprentice fighting in soresu would be sort of a contradiction, but maybe a interesting one. It would imply that he isn't all that selfish and aggressive but more controlled and calm. Maybe he doesn't revel in the dark side but plays along because he wants to protect his brother? This would make it much more dramatic to have his brother attack him should the pc's be defeated and it might even give his brother a good reason: the soresu specialist does not want his brother to kill the helpless players! On the other hand he might finally embrace his anger if his brother dies at the hand of the jedi PC, leading him to the dark side for good! I'm starting to like this

Unfortunately, you're going to have a very difficult time planning the result of any combat encounter with out a really obvious railroad. Trying to set up "one dies, one escapes" is especially hard, but let's give it a shot.

Does your group make a habit of finishing off fallen enemies? If you treat the enemies like PCs, it's actually going to be fairly tough to kill them in combat. Basically, you have to hit them with a crit that rolls 131 or higher, or they're just badly maimed and out of the fight. The characters can, of course, finish them off while they're helpless, but this is a pretty heavy Dark Side action. I suppose the Jedi would be the only one to really worry about this, so perhaps you split them up. One brother is modeled after the Shien Expert, and he engages the rest of the group to hold them off, Reflecting their blasters back at them and whatnot.. The other brother is more of a duelist, and he goes for the Jedi.

Run the fights separately, because there are a few outcomes. The Shien Expert is really just there to stall the rest of the group, so let him play a mostly defensive game. If he goes down, it's probably safe to assume they kill him. Even if he wins, he's not really concerned about these peasants, so you don't have to kill off the whole party.

If the Duelist wins, there are a couple ways to play it out, depending what happens with the other brother. I like the idea that the Shien Expert kills his own brother, and perhaps he has a sense of honor not to kill the Jedi. Because, I dunno, he wasn't the one to defeat him or something. He of course tells him that he'll see him again soon, blah blah blah. If the Expert is dead, the Duelist hears the rest of the party coming to aid the Jedi, and makes a break for it.

Now then, if the Duelist loses, chances are he's still alive. He might be way over his Wound or Strain threshold, but if he hasn't taken that horrid Crit, he's at the mercy of a Jedi Knight. You know, a guy with mercy. His brother (if alive) will probably sense his fall and come rushing to him. Perhaps he even still has enough love for his brother that he just wants to take him and leave, and makes this offer to the PC. Of course, such a failure of the Dark Side will anger their master, and perhaps the next encounter has only one brother, scarred and tortured after their master killed the other.

You make some more good points here: I could make a apprentice survive even if he is badly wounded. The Players do not make a habit of finishing opponents off because I do usually consider them dead unless there is some good reason the character should survive. But: If I make a npc survive after being defeated and left for dead, my players would start to shoot every defeated enemy in the head.. and I would prefer to avoid that. I can't even count on the "Jedi" PC to show mercy, because he implied that he would like to be more like a "grey Jedi" and killing a helpless dark apprentice might not look like an evil deed to him.

Considering the Idea with the soresu fighter your last point would fit in very well: the apprentice offering the jedi to leave with his wounded brother in defeat and continue the fight later. This would make for another interesting lead: can he be redeemed? A Sith that leaves the battlefield to save his brother. The Jedi PC could even try to turn him to the light side in the future!

Summary (combining what I had in mind with the answers):

The twin brothers John and Pash Coral are trained to be sith. Both gain Adversary 1 or 2?

• John is a very aggressive warrior, choosing the Shii-Cho fighting style. (Parry II, Toughened, Multiple Opponents). His stats would be B4, A3, C2, I2, W3, P1. Skills: Lightsaber 2, Resilience 2, Coercion 2. Armed with a basic lightsaber and black robes. Force: enhance (with force leap upgrade).
  • He joined a sith master after he discovered his force sensitivity. He is a bully and he would like to become a powerful warrior, to make a difference in the galaxy.
• Pash on the other hand is a calm individual. He chose the soresu form (soresu technique, Parry I, Reflect 2, Improved reflect [Yes, I cheated there^^]). His stats: B3 A2 C2 I4 W2 P3. Skills: Lightsaber 2, Discipline 2, Charm 1, Negotiation 1, Coercion 1, Medicine 2. Armed with a basic lightsaber and armored clothing + some stimpacks. Force: Sense with 1-3 control upgrades.
  • He did also discover his force sensitivity early. He initially chose not to reveal it to the Sith but eventually joined his brother because he felt the need to protect him. While his brother embraced the dark side completely Pash is still in control of his feelings and struggles to resist the temptation of power. He does however try to convince his master that he is fully into it, a path that still leads to his corruption over time.

Now the two apprentices will confront the players as they want to leave the crystal cave. John will comment on how much he was looking forward to killing a jedi while Pash offers to cover his back while he deals with the jedi. John will use force leap to engage the jedi right away while Pash runs towards the ranged fighters, making it clear that they should try to deal with him if they want to have a chance. This will result in two fights that can end in a number of ways:

• Both apprentices are defeated at the same time: they die.
• Both apprentices win the fight against the players: Pash strikes his opponents down and then rushes to help John. He is just in time to see John strike down the Jedi and rise his lightsaber to execute him. He blocks the strike, urging him to leave the players in defeat and return to their master. But John does not intend to leave the Jedi alive and therefore attacks his brother. They move further away while fighting and some of the players become conscious again, allowing them to flee. If they decide to attack the brothers again, they will probably all die for good.
• Pash defeats his enemies while John is defeated by the Jedi: Pash pleads for peace, offering to take his wounded brother away while leaving the players alive. This leaves both apprentices alive with an option for redeeming Pash in the future. If the Jedi decides to kill John instead, Pash will attack him in anger, possibly killing him (unless the Jedi won the first fight easily) or fleeing if he gets close to lethal.
• John defeats the Jedi while Pash is defeated: knowing that he has a hard time against blaster weapons at long range (and the duel with the Jedi has brought him to long range with the other players), John runs for cover and eventually out of the cave. He uses his force jump to escape out of a otherwise hard to reach side entrance. He swears an oath to avenge his brother.

These would all be solid options and I do think that the third option is the most likely, followed by the second. With 1-2 adversary ranks, sense, reflect and 1 defence from his armored clothing, Pash is very likely to reflect some blaster shots back to the attackers and finish them off in close combat. John on the other hand will not have the highest strain threshold and should run out of parry faster than the jedi. I will also use the destiny points to make this outcome more likely by using the points to boost Pash.

1. Do you think that this should work out as intended or did I miss something important?
2. Any Ideas to improve it even more or to make the first outcome less likely?
3. Is this unfair to the non Jedi players because I more or less set them up to be defeated? (I mean.. they can still win but it is not very likely) On the other hand I can offer the Jedi a very strong scene with an important decision.

Thank you very much for the answers, this has been more helpful than I dared hope!

1. Do you think that this should work out as intended or did I miss something important?
2. Any Ideas to improve it even more or to make the first outcome less likely?
3. Is this unfair to the non Jedi players because I more or less set them up to be defeated? (I mean.. they can still win but it is not very likely) On the other hand I can offer the Jedi a very strong scene with an important decision.

1. My gut feeling is it will all work out as intended, but admittedly I don't know your players and crazy rolls seem to happen often in this system (which is good fun too). I think you'll just need to stay flexible and let your players drive the story forward. In the end, if your PC's presumably work together, rally, and kill both brothers then that is a major accomplishment and that victory needs to be congratulated and rewarded by the GM (queue the Ewok Celebration Song). Perhaps then the brothers' dark master becomes intrigued with the Jedi PC, and targets him to be turned to the dark side and to become his new dark apprentice. Don't be wedded too much to any one outcome. We GM's are imaginative enough to roll with the punches, and if any of us are stuck, then we have each other here on the forums to help out.

2. Adversary 2 for both brothers is a good start. Don't forget their force powers and armor to increase their soak and defense dice too. As has been said in this thread, you can't guarantee a particular outcome, BUT... I think a GM in this system can make certain outcomes statistically more likely. If you go this route, I suggest making all your rolls out in the open for all players to see to be fair. One additional thing you can do to make the first outcome less likely is develop the environment more, i.e. what are these mines like where the fight will take place? Is it dark? Are there noisy mining droids working and bustling about who are ignoring the characters but getting into their way? Could a lightsaber duel and blaster shots trigger a mine collapse or cave-in? You can establish and manipulate the environment to give setback dice to outcomes you don't want to see occur, and to give boost dice to outcomes you'd prefer to occur. I see this as the brothers choosing favorable terrain to fight the PC's. However, nothing is ever guaranteed. Good thinking, teamwork, and good dice rolling by your players can always, and should, win the day.

3. This is a good question. Yes, as it stands I think you'll need something for your non-Jedi characters to do to be fair. Why are they there risking their necks? Can they grab some crystals to make some quick credits? If so, I'd imagine the caves are guarded, perhaps by security droids? Anyway, yes, I'd advise to have something cool for your non-Jedi characters to do as well.

There's an adventure module in the EotE GM kit called 'Debts to Pay' that, with a few tweaks, would work really well here.

Semper Fi.

Keep in mind that when you build NPCs, you don’t build them according to the same rules as a Player Character. If they need ranks in Parry or Reflect, then give them that — but you don’t necessarily have to give them a particular style.

Pick and choose the attributes, skills, and talents that you think will be necessary, and don’t be afraid to cherry-pick the good stuff. They don’t need to be fully fleshed out PCs, in order to be good at being Nemesis NPCs.

There is a good section on building an Inquisitor in the back of the F&D CRB. I would encourage you to look at that and at least consider using those same rules for building these dark siders.

The Players do not make a habit of finishing opponents off because I do usually consider them dead unless there is some good reason the character should survive. But: If I make a npc survive after being defeated and left for dead, my players would start to shoot every defeated enemy in the head.. and I would prefer to avoid that.

I was thinking on this, and I came up with a quick house rule for determining casualties at the end of a battle. I certainly don't think every fallen minion and rival should make a big return, but I also don't think PCs and Nemeses should be the only ones that can be incapacitated and live to see another day. Besides, it seems to me that if you're attacked, and you manage to take out a couple of the bad guys, that's the time to negotiate. Offer to let them take their wounded (and in great pain) buddies to a doctor and leave you alone, and they might just consider doing that instead of fighting to the death.

I posted up my house rule thoughts here.