So, I had a thread on different demo lists that people use to teach games to newer players. Why don't we put some lists up and then vote on them finding some good all rounder lists that will allow a new player get the game buy not overwhelm them.

I will end this on January 18th at 1900 PST.

Alright, here are the list criteria.

1) 300 points. More and you have too long of a game. 300 points allows a good mix of everything I believe.

2) 50 points of squadrons minimum but don't get crazy with squadrons. They are a difficult aspect of the game to get used to.

3) Not many upgrades but there needs to be an Commander.

4) Minimum ships needed is 1 Large, and 1 Small. A medium will be nice but it is hard to add that in as well.

Let's see what everyone comes up with.

I would like to build a consensus that we spell consensus correctly in the title of this thread.

I always just put together the basic list shown in the Learn to Play book. Simple enough and small enough to get people into the game, without overwhelming them for their first game.

I would like to build a consensus that we spell consensus correctly in the title of this thread.

I try not to use large ships, commanders, or any upgrades in my Demo Games. It distracts from the game it self!

The lists that I usually use are:

Rebels (200 pts)

Ship 1 - Assault Frigate MK II A

Ship 2 - CR-90 A

3 X-Wing Squadrons

2 A-Wing Squadrons

1 B-Wing Squadrons

Imperials (199 pts)

Ship 1 - Victory Class II Star Destroyer

Ship 2 - Raider Class II Corvette

6 Tie Fighter Squadrons

2 Tie Bomber Squadrons

I like this because both players have "Big" intimidating ships. Both have swarms of squadrons.

And if you're a new player... These lists are fairly evenly matched.

The Large ships are too upgrade hungry to work, in my opinion. You're better off with a barebones AF2b and VSD I. I'd also avoid B-wings because they're very tricky for new players- Capital ships cover a surprising amount of ground, and B-wings need to either be babysat or rely on prediction to work.

The Large ships are too upgrade hungry to work, in my opinion. You're better off with a barebones AF2b and VSD I. I'd also avoid B-wings because they're very tricky for new players- Capital ships cover a surprising amount of ground, and B-wings need to either be babysat or rely on prediction to work.

I'd half agree with you, but the VSD I is far too unforgiving.

And I added a single B-Wing into my list if only to get the player interested in them! Let them get to know the pros and cons of this little power-house!

I always just put together the basic list shown in the Learn to Play book. Simple enough and small enough to get people into the game, without overwhelming them for their first game.

Now this i don't like! The Playbook scenario is intimidating! And the Rebels have to use way too much tactical planning in order to stand a chance!

Really keen to see where this leads

Trying to get myself and the mrs into Armada after a large x-wing obsession and it'd be good to know a fair and fun starting point

Really keen to see where this leads

Trying to get myself and the mrs into Armada after a large x-wing obsession and it'd be good to know a fair and fun starting point

So here is a set of lists.

+++ Demo lists (599pts) +++

++ Imperial Navy (Standard) (299pts) ++

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (156pts) [•Darth Vader (36pts)]

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73pts)

+ Squadrons (70pts) +

Firespray-31 (18pts)

JumpMaster 5000 (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Interceptor Squadron (11pts)

++ Rebel Fleet (Standard) (300pts) ++

Assault Frigate Mark IIB (72pts)

MC80 Command Cruiser (144pts) [•Admiral Ackbar (38pts)]

+ Squadrons (84pts) +

A-Wing Squadron (11pts)

A-Wing Squadron (11pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

HWK-290 (12pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

You have extremely different criteria than most people have suggested.

I'd like to say...no. Don't go by this route.

So here is a set of lists.

+++ Demo lists (599pts) +++

++ Imperial Navy (Standard) (299pts) ++

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (156pts) [•Darth Vader (36pts)]

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73pts)

+ Squadrons (70pts) +

Firespray-31 (18pts)

JumpMaster 5000 (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Bomber Squadron (9pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Interceptor Squadron (11pts)


++ Rebel Fleet (Standard) (300pts) ++

Assault Frigate Mark IIB (72pts)

MC80 Command Cruiser (144pts) [•Admiral Ackbar (38pts)]

+ Squadrons (84pts) +

A-Wing Squadron (11pts)

A-Wing Squadron (11pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

HWK-290 (12pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

YT-1300 (13pts)

Keep it simple - as few special rules and upgrades as possible. This applies to ships and squadrons both.

300 points is OK. Nothing less certainly, as Armada sucks big time with fewer points.

Multiple ships please, to show how the activation game works.

The Empire must have an ISD.

The Rebels must have several smaller ships.

Include squadrons to taste, mostly basic ones (multiples of one type or maybe two types), but throw in an iconic rogue like Boba and Han for each side.

see?

though if your newbs can handle it, sure go for it. But sounds to me like you're probably catering to a very specific group of people: male, wargamer-experienced, FLGS-regular, usually white, usually middle-aged.

--

Also, imo, armada at small point values is really really fun. Like, sometimes more fun than 400 points. I make no promises on balance though.

Honestly from experience you want a relatively balanced game, which the learn to play tutorial game dont really provide, but get close too.

Anatomy of the learn to play tutorial :

Imperial (93pt)

1xVSD-II (85pt)

6xTie Fighter (48pt)

Rebel (153pt)

1xCR90A (44pt)

1xNeb-B Escort (57pt)

4xX-Wing (52)

For having played this scenario more then once (about a dozen time actually) it most often end in one of two ways, all fighters dies, which result in Imperial victory, or the VSD fly off the map during is turn 6 maneuvering if no maneuver command, or token, are used before turn 5, which result in rebel victory. Since all ship start at speed two per the rule and with pre planed command, if the imperial player doesn't realize he will fly of the map and doesn't use the command to turn more or reduce speed before is 5th turn then it will almost always end off the board. If no capital ship dies but all the squadron die then imperial Win on points. I have not seen the VSD ever go down during that game, rarely seen a rebel one die, think it happened twice. The scenario does the job of letting player learn the rules, but lack advanced mechanics which is fine, I personally would add an admiral to both side and now that we have more ship maybe change the ship and squadron setup slightly but probably not terribly so.

What I believe is missing for that scenario, would be having an admiral like Tarkin as the token given could let the player strategies a little bost and maybe avoid the recurrent fly away death trap. For the rebel I might be tempted to go with Dodonna as it doesn't cost to much yet allow to see what other kind of mechanic exist. I would advise against giving the player to many upgrade and option as it would slow the game down and overload the new player. I would try to keep at lest one of every ship in the core set in the list as a new player kinda have to get it, so might as well have her learn what they are capable off. I would personally aim for around 200pt since it's not as scary but allow to add or swipe some models and maybe showcase some wave two goodness.

Here what I would probably Run (on the same size table)

Imperial (203pt)

1xVSD-I + Tarkin (111pt)

1xRaider-I (44pt)

6xTIE Fighters (48pt)

Rebel (221pt)

1xMC30c Trop + Dodonna (83pt)

1xNeb-B Support (51pt)

1xCR90B (39pt)

2xX-Wing (26pt)

2xA-Wing(22pt)

It's still slightly unbalance point wise but I believe it would be a more interesting match to learn the mechanics if you really want to expand the selection. As I see it it's not important for the points to mach if the game is for people who have never played. What you want is an effective way to teach the rules without hindrance, create opportunity for memorable moments to arise, which is what I aim for with close range diced ship along with Dodonna give plenty of chance to see ship burn without crushing new players under loads of upgrade cards they need to track each time they want to do something. Also remember while you advise the person learning of possible option open to them you have to let them make their choice so they learn and to avoid having them feeling like you are shadowing them to much.

One last tip, having a slightly unbalanced set up allow you to play the disadvantaged side and to try and help the newcomer win, but not so unbalance that one side as obviously no chance of wining. That way, if you have two new faces playing each other they will both feel like they have a chance. The number one trick is to have a couple of tense moments, or highlight them, so they have a good feeling and a memorable time trying the game, that way you are more likely to have them join in and start playing.

Hey Lyraeus !

For demo games, what I like to do is to keep it simple with the core set's fleet at 150 points, for two simple reasons :

1) Armada already has several mechanics that are counter intuitive (shoot and move, making the opponent burn defense tokens), that I feel having too many ships on the table will be hard to control.

2) Upgrade cards are very important for the game to work properly, but I found it better for people to actually learn about the upgrade cards effect themselves. Some of the guy I demo'ed to with upgrade cards had trouble understanding the why of the upgrades right off the bat. To really see the value of upgrade cards, you need proper understanding of the mechanics first, which is simple in a barebones game.

So, it's always been 4 X-Wings, 6 TIEs, 1 VSD 2 a CR90A and a Neb Escort for me.

If you want to have larger ships in the game for a demo game, fair enough, but once again keep it simple. Something like ISD I + Gladiator + TIE Fighters on the Imperial side, and something like MC80 Assault + CR90A + X-Wings on the Rebel side.

Rebellion: 300

AFIIA - 81 (Very newbie friendly and forgiving ship)

- Garm Bel Iblis - 25 (Gives you tokens! Good for helping a new player learn how tokens vs command dials work)

- Defensive Liaison - 3 (Training wheels)

Nebulon B Escort - 56 (Gives another option for activating squadrons)

CR90A - 44 (Teaches good maneuvering and placement)

Squadrons:

X-Wing x 4 = 54 (Good All-around squadron, teaches Escort)

Y-Wing x 4 = 40 (Inexpensive Bomber, teaches Heavy)

Empire: 300

VSDII - 85 (Most forgiving of the VSDs in terms of positioning, looks like a Star Destroyer)

- Motti - 24 (Changes the least about how the game works / don't have to remember much)

- Navigation Officer - 6 (training wheels / STRONG HINT on how to make the VSD work)

GSDI - 56 (Good introduction to Imperial Brawling)

- Demolisher - 10 (Training Wheels for Black Dice)

- APT - 5 (Intro to Crit Effects)

Raider II - 48 (Another positioning ship.)

Squadrons:

TIE Fighters x 6 - 48 (Imperial standard squadron, teaches Swarm)

TIE Bombers x 2 - 18 (Teaches Heavy)

Rebellion: 300

AFIIA - 81 (Very newbie friendly and forgiving ship)

- Garm Bel Iblis - 25 (Gives you tokens! Good for helping a new player learn how tokens vs command dials work)

- Defensive Liaison - 3 (Training wheels)

Nebulon B Escort - 56 (Gives another option for activating squadrons)

CR90A - 44 (Teaches good maneuvering and placement)

Squadrons:

X-Wing x 4 = 54 (Good All-around squadron, teaches Escort)

Y-Wing x 4 = 40 (Inexpensive Bomber, teaches Heavy)

Empire: 300

VSDII - 85 (Most forgiving of the VSDs in terms of positioning, looks like a Star Destroyer)

- Motti - 24 (Changes the least about how the game works / don't have to remember much)

- Navigation Officer - 6 (training wheels / STRONG HINT on how to make the VSD work)

GSDI - 56 (Good introduction to Imperial Brawling)

- Demolisher - 10 (Training Wheels for Black Dice)

- APT - 5 (Intro to Crit Effects)

Raider II - 48 (Another positioning ship.)

Squadrons:

TIE Fighters x 6 - 48 (Imperial standard squadron, teaches Swarm)

TIE Bombers x 2 - 18 (Teaches Heavy)

I'm on the fence with this one. Though I like where your mind is at.

1. I don't like 300 points for Demos. I think it's too big.

2. Out of any upgrades that you could pick. You picked the Demolisher!!

Adding the Demolisher into this Demo is like giving a voice activated T-Rex to a schoolyard bully! Any idiot can use it. And it's going to horribly brutalize to who ever is playing Rebels.

Hey Lyraeus !

For demo games, what I like to do is to keep it simple with the core set's fleet at 150 points, for two simple reasons :

1) Armada already has several mechanics that are counter intuitive (shoot and move, making the opponent burn defense tokens), that I feel having too many ships on the table will be hard to control.

2) Upgrade cards are very important for the game to work properly, but I found it better for people to actually learn about the upgrade cards effect themselves. Some of the guy I demo'ed to with upgrade cards had trouble understanding the why of the upgrades right off the bat. To really see the value of upgrade cards, you need proper understanding of the mechanics first, which is simple in a barebones game.

So, it's always been 4 X-Wings, 6 TIEs, 1 VSD 2 a CR90A and a Neb Escort for me.

If you want to have larger ships in the game for a demo game, fair enough, but once again keep it simple. Something like ISD I + Gladiator + TIE Fighters on the Imperial side, and something like MC80 Assault + CR90A + X-Wings on the Rebel side.

What this guy wrote. I managed a gaming store several years ago and I demo games now at a friends gaming store (even did that at local comic con last december) and from experience people that want to give it a try are either for a "fast feeling" of the game or just curious. For those a fast simple game (around 150 points) is much better to explain and to understand (and faster). One just needs to point at the end that the game has much more to offer (just show them more upgrades and ships and that the core box has everything in there to get started).

So, I had a thread on different demo lists that people use to teach games to newer players. Why don't we put some lists up and then vote on them finding some good all rounder lists that will allow a new player get the game buy not overwhelm them.

I will end this on January 18th at 1900 PST.

Alright, here are the list criteria.

1) 300 points. More and you have too long of a game. 300 points allows a good mix of everything I believe.

2) 50 points of squadrons minimum but don't get crazy with squadrons. They are a difficult aspect of the game to get used to.

3) Not many upgrades but there needs to be an Commander.

4) Minimum ships needed is 1 Large, and 1 Small. A medium will be nice but it is hard to add that in as well.

Let's see what everyone comes up with.

Lyraeus, I went and did a very stupid thing. Let me know if it works.

Rebel Alliance: 299/300

• MC80 Assault cruiser
• General Dodonna
• Support Officer
• Leading Shots
• Home One

• MC30c Scout Frigate
• Ordnance Experts
• Assault Proton Torpedoes

• Han Solo
• Luke skywalker
• X-Wing Squadron
• X-Wing Squadron

  Against:

  Galactic Empire: 297/300

• Imperisal-2 Star Destroyer
• Admiral Screed
• Intel Officer
• Boosted Comms
• Leading Shots

• Gladiator-1
• Assault Concussion Missiles
• Demolisher

• Darth Vader
• TIE Bomber
• TIE Bomber
• TIE Fighter
• TIE Fighter
• TIE Fighter

Despite being only two ships and a handful of squadrons each, we can see vast differences in strategy on both the ship and squadron level. Rebels and Imperials keep their individual strengths.

I also think this is a smart way to incorporate characters. the generals are relative unknowns on both sides, with individual heroes contributing to the fight as opposed to overwhelming it.