How do you send xp on ability score adjustments do you 30 points to raise a score to 3 from 1 or do you spend 50 to raise it from 1 to 3?

Each rank has to be paid for. 1 -> 2 = 20, 2 -> 3 = 30, total of 50 for 1 -> 3

50. you cant skip steps.

you need to raise from 1->2, then from 2->3.

That said, you can only raise ability scores with the initial starting exp (Ie, the ~100 from your race, and the +~10 from obligation/duty/morality), not the extra exp if you are playing at knight level either. You wont get more than maybe 130ish exp to spend on stats (unless you are a droid). And you can never raise them following character creation directly through experience.

You can raise stats after game start through dedication talents, usually found at the bottom of most trees (some of the force trees do not have it).

Ummmm, an Emperor's Hand is a Nemesis and hardly a 'lvl 1' character....

It's also worth pointing out that NPC stat blocks aren't made using standard character creation rules. They are instead given the stats they need in order to serve the function they are meant to play in the story.

But in answer to the original question, you have to buy each level in order and it can only be done at char gen.

Makes it difficult to "build" NPCs i you are like me and want to ensure fairness between NPCs and PCs

There is no such thing.

I run a game for my kids (17 & 12 in age) and I would allow them to improve their Characteristics to 5 through XP and use the dedication talent for anything they want to improve to a 6.

It's likely they'll end up bored with such supremely capable characters.

@2P51: That is true the point being made however is that the Emperor's hand has Characteristics well beyond what can be achieved at Character Creation which is the only time XP can be used to increase the Characteristics beyond the Species stats, so if XP cannot be used, and the only way to improve Characteristics is through Career specialization Talent Trees (of which only 1 Characteristic could be improved per specialization Talent Tree as they each only have Dedication once) then how did the Emperor's hand get the characteristics to those scores?

How many different Specializations would they have to have? Base scores are 2 (for humans) so in order to start with a 5, a character would have to spend 30+40+50 xp at character creation, that is the 110 xp that a human gets plus 10 points of Obligation. They would then need 6 Specializations taken all the way to Dedication in the talent tree in order to improve a Characteristic.

You're over thinking it. The rules aren't broken. They just aren't what you want. There is a distinct difference.

@2P51: That is true the point being made however is that the Emperor's hand has Characteristics well beyond what can be achieved at Character Creation which is the only time XP can be used to increase the Characteristics beyond the Species stats, so if XP cannot be used, and the only way to improve Characteristics is through Career specialization Talent Trees (of which only 1 Characteristic could be improved per specialization Talent Tree as they each only have Dedication once) then how did the Emperor's hand get the characteristics to those scores?

How many different Specializations would they have to have? Base scores are 2 (for humans) so in order to start with a 5, a character would have to spend 30+40+50 xp at character creation, that is the 110 xp that a human gets plus 10 points of Obligation. They would then need 6 Specializations taken all the way to Dedication in the talent tree in order to improve a Characteristic.

Again the NPC's aren't built using standard PC rules. And at no point does the game pretend that it's NPC's are built using the same rules as PC's. The book pretty much tells you to give nemesis whatever talents you feel they need, as an example.

I'd hate to answer a question with a question, but since it's suddenly a "broken" aspect of this game, is there an RPG where you go through & make opponents with the CHARGEN system, or documentation showing how opponents were created with the CHARGEN system?

@2P51:: Most RPGs I play do use the same "levleing" pathway that Characters do., very few I cannot figure out how the NPCs achieved their stats

And i will give that the rules aren't broken, just that there simply are no rules for how create NPCs other than "just give them whatever you want"

To what end though? I don't see what that ends up providing tangibly. Opponents are narrative, as well as mechanical challenges in a RPG. What does it provide to the experience to have some discernible path to their creation when ultimately it has no bearing on the game-play?

@Kael: and that is precisely the point I am making, you are right that NPCs don't use the same rules as the PCs because there are no rules in how (or guide) in how to create NPCs other than give them what you think they shoudl have.

If you did use the same steps then you can better judge what is a challenge for the PCs when you create NPCs.

Even systems with real rules for NPC building falls prey to being hard to judge what is going to be a challenge for PC's. This system seems to suggest that dice pools is a good way to judge though. But the exact numbers are less important than to the function they serve in the story.

@2P51: If that is the case in your opinion then they why bother with stats at all?

Why not simply just sit around and tell a story without stats or dice or any other resource?

Part of being a good GM\DM is in knowing how the system works and how the game mechanics work in order to create a good story. If I create an adventure and simply give the NPCs what i think they should have I may over shoot the challenge level and make the NPC too strong or to weak which can ruin the story if you cannot adjust on the fly. Now as an experienced M (being doing it for over 20 years) I am pretty good at that, but when new DM\GM may not be. Being able to compare an NPC to the PC in a game mechanic mode can help develop NPC creation ability so that you can present good NPCs when needed.

The game provides plenty of adversaries that can be re-skinned. F&D provides a step by step process for Inquisitor creation. I'm not precisely sure what you need to create beyond all of that.

@Kael: and that is precisely the point I am making, you are right that NPCs don't use the same rules as the PCs because there are no rules in how (or guide) in how to create NPCs other than give them what you think they shoudl have.

If you did use the same steps then you can better judge what is a challenge for the PCs when you create NPCs.

Even systems with real rules for NPC building falls prey to being hard to judge what is going to be a challenge for PC's. This system seems to suggest that dice pools is a good way to judge though. But the exact numbers are less important than to the function they serve in the story.

And that is true in that but being able to compare the amount of XP it took to create an NPC can lessen the challenge as you can compare o the PC's XP total. I also like to introduce NPCs to the PC and if the players do something that makes me want to use that NPC as a recurring NPC knowing how to develop that NPC alongside the PCs makes it more fair

The game provides plenty of adversaries that can be re-skinned. F&D provides a step by step process for Inquisitor creation. I'm not precisely sure what you need to create beyond all of that.

Yes, F&D does have that, before that however it had nothing. Also without an NPC creation path or a conversion kit it makes it difficult to convert the stories I enjoyed being a player in (back in the day) into the new system so that i can present them to my players now.

The CHARGEN process in this game and options are simply too broad to use just xp as some kind of a comparison. A PC could spend 500 xp and not really be built to do very well against a group of Minion stromtroopers. A PC could be built right out of the gate session 1 that would wipe the floor with a group of stormtroopers. Ultimately with 18 careers and over 100 specs when it's said and done, there is simply too much variety to have some rigid formula. Knowing your own group and simply tweaking the dice pool appropriately is the best way to scale challenges.

@Kael: and that is precisely the point I am making, you are right that NPCs don't use the same rules as the PCs because there are no rules in how (or guide) in how to create NPCs other than give them what you think they shoudl have.

If you did use the same steps then you can better judge what is a challenge for the PCs when you create NPCs.

Even systems with real rules for NPC building falls prey to being hard to judge what is going to be a challenge for PC's. This system seems to suggest that dice pools is a good way to judge though. But the exact numbers are less important than to the function they serve in the story.

And that is true in that but being able to compare the amount of XP it took to create an NPC can lessen the challenge as you can compare o the PC's XP total. I also like to introduce NPCs to the PC and if the players do something that makes me want to use that NPC as a recurring NPC knowing how to develop that NPC alongside the PCs makes it more fair

There's nothing currently stopping you from using NPC's along side PCs. Nor is there nothing that stops you from developing NPC's along PC's in an unfair way. NPC's are meant to develop based on the narrative needs of the GM, of which there is no single path to. NPC's that are meant to be bad guys can be adjusted based on the current PC dice pools and the tricks they have. There is nothing unfair about that. Flipside NPC's that the PC's work with don't really need detailed stats to be fairly developed with them.

This game doesn't equate stats with fairness.

Makes it difficult to "build" NPCs i you are like me and want to ensure fairness between NPCs and PCs

There is no such thing.

I run a game for my kids (17 & 12 in age) and I would allow them to improve their Characteristics to 5 through XP and use the dedication talent for anything they want to improve to a 6.

It's likely they'll end up bored with such supremely capable characters.

I would say that depends on your players. I have been in games where players were bored at the beginning because they kept getting knocked unconscious and were only really interested when they got to the higher levels and could really do a lot more.

@2P51: If that is the case in your opinion then they why bother with stats at all?

You bother with stats because you're comparing capabilities to a desired outcome, which is only tangentially related to the PCs, their XP, and what they've spent it on.

If you go through all the trouble to make an opponent who happens to be an Engineer to be on par with the PC's Engineer, and you only use it for a combat encounter, then you've wasted a pile of time giving the NPC "Gearhead" and other Talents that are going to be irrelevant.

I would say that depends on your players. I have been in games where players were bored at the beginning because they kept getting knocked unconscious and were only really interested when they got to the higher levels and could really do a lot more.

Maybe they got knocked unconscious because the challenge wasn't scaled appropriately.

The CHARGEN process in this game and options are simply too broad to use just xp as some kind of a comparison. A PC could spend 500 xp and not really be built to do very well against a group of Minion stromtroopers. A PC could be built right out of the gate session 1 that would wipe the floor with a group of stormtroopers. Ultimately with 18 careers and over 100 specs when it's said and done, there is simply too much variety to have some rigid formula. Knowing your own group and simply tweaking the dice pool appropriately is the best way to scale challenges.

I think this is highly important. When it's possible for two starting PC's to be leagues apart in terms of challenges, a rigid system would only hamper a GM's ability to modify an encounter based on the group as a whole as opposed to any given PC member that could derail a carefully calculated NPC.

The CHARGEN process in this game and options are simply too broad to use just xp as some kind of a comparison. A PC could spend 500 xp and not really be built to do very well against a group of Minion stromtroopers. A PC could be built right out of the gate session 1 that would wipe the floor with a group of stormtroopers. Ultimately with 18 careers and over 100 specs when it's said and done, there is simply too much variety to have some rigid formula. Knowing your own group and simply tweaking the dice pool appropriately is the best way to scale challenges.

And that is great if the group you have has RPGed before and you know how they play and what they expect, but if you have a group who are all new to not only the system but each other your advice (knowing your group) simply cannot be followed as you don't know yet. I just started the the Star Wars game for my two kids (who as stated are 17 & 12), and while my 17 year old has played in a previous D&D campaign she only played about 6 sessions (brought her into the game after it had been going a while) before the group broke apart for different reasons, my son played 1 session before it was all over.

I started the SW campaign because they asked me, I have not played the Destiny system as a Player or run it as a GM (until lat weekend) so I was more than a little weary of running it. I prepped the "Perlemian Run" (in AoR Core book) for about 3 weeks trying to get a good understanding of the rules ad how things worked and was not sure of how to adjust for only two PCs an adventure that I presumed was developed for 4-6 players.

Now while they had a good time, I fudged more than a few roles to move things along, i would have felt better about running the game if i had a better understanding of how to compare the PCs to the NPCs and having an NPC development path would have helped me.