Hello guys ! I wanted to discuss two ships and squadrons that are not considered the most interesting builds out there for the Imperials, but after thinking about it, they might work together relatively well !

First off, both the TIE Advanced and the ISD I are pretty unremarkable and seem clunky :

- The TIE A is easily the most versatile of the Imperial Fighters, but it's also the least efficient at doing anything well, and doesn't synergize with the more you throw, compared to Rhymerballs/Fireballs or Fel/Howlrunner combos to drown the enemy under blue dice. What it has going for it though is quite the survivability and a pretty cool black dice in anti-ship which will guarantee 75% of a hit.

- The Imperial I is in a bit of an odd spot as well : it wants to be a carrier, but is less efficient compared to the VSD in that role (23 points per activation on an ISD I with EHB vs 22.5 on a Vic 2 with EHB). It also wants to shoot at other ships but the Black Dice make it harder to get range even on a speed 3 boat. Finally, it wants to shoot at squadron with a very correct anti-fighter armament but isn't especially competent at doing so.

I have the feeling however, that both the ISD I and a TIE A swarm can work well together and cover each other's shortcomings with the proper upgrade cards. Let's consider the following build :

- 5 TIE Advanced (60 points)

- ISD I with Expanded Hangars, Point Defense Reroute, Ruthless Strategists (124 points)

The interesting bit with that strategy is that this build works relatively well against both ships and squadrons. In their baseline, anti-squadron is clearly the weaknesses of the TIE Advanced and the Star Destroyer I, but the upgrade cards allow to greatly cover that weakness. With 25 squadron hull points to chew through (and to spend with Ruthless Strategists), and and an antifighter barrage averaging 1.5 damage after the rerolls, the ISD is able to inflict an average of 2.5 damage per turn on each enemy squadron it attacks, on top of the 15 blue dice of the TIE Advanced.

And if anti-ship firepower is needed, in a pinch the TIE Advanced double up as missile boats, with 75% damage chance against the ship, or 3.75 on average for the 5 of them. Bossk, albeit slower, could be an interesting addition to the list to help push firepower through on fighters and ships, as well as synergizing well with Ruthless Strategists due to 7 hull points and his special ability giving him a free accuracy when at 6 hull points or below.

Obviously, when running a very dedicated squadron build, the VSD is a much better platform due to being more economical. But when running an all comers platform, which the Imperial I seems to be, I feel that swarming TIE Advanced has some merits, due to being able to tackle both ship and squadron heavy lists much like the Imperial I itself.

Has anyone thought of such a build too ?

+++ Imp/A Waltz (398pts) +++

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (157pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Gunnery Team (7pts), Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts), Wing Commander (6pts), •Admiral Motti (24pts)]

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (133pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Gunnery Team (7pts), Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts), Wing Commander (6pts)]

+ Squadrons (108pts) +

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

TIE Advanced Squadron (12pts)

•Dengar (20pts)

•Major Rhymer (16pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Most Wanted]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [superior Positions]

Lol, Dengar would be unkillable in that thing.

This could actually work to clear out enemy squadrons really fast, though you could do this with any squadron and in fact would be better with tie-fighters which are almost as cheap per hull point as advanced's but do significantly more damage. It's also primarily effective if you have fighter superiority as a way to clear squadrons (and specifically characters) much faster, but won't work well when faced with squadron superiority as it will actually cause your squadrons to get destroyed faster, helping your opponent if you want to tie up his squadrons as long as possible.

That said, I wouldn't put Ruthless Strategist on an ISD, as gunnery team is just too good on it, but possibly on a less powerful ship like a Raider or Gladiator which will pretty much never get 2 seperate ships in his short range front arc.

Flight controllers would solve your firepower shortcomings with Tie Advanced.

Flight controllers would solve your firepower shortcomings with Tie Advanced.

They do less damage on average than Ruthless strategists ^^ (0.5 vs 1 per fighter).

On top of that, they work better with swarms (due to the rerolls)

Ruthless strategists is also limited to squadrons that my ship can actually shoot at, which if I'm flying star destroyers likely means using a front arc shot, and since I won't be able to equip gunnery teams it means I wont be shooting st ships that round. And I also have to damage my own squadron. Meanwhile, I can enjoy the benefits of flight controllers across a larger threat radius and I'm not forced to shoot at squadrons to make it work.

i wish tie adv had swarm. theyd be so good. true A-wing level dominance in the all rounder field.

The TIE Advanced isn't too bad, it's just not spectacular. It's there if you want a reason to escort something (like Rhymer or Dengar) and it hits as hard as a standard TIE Fighter (with a slight improvement of chance to hit capital ships). You're essentially paying four points for a hull upgrade and escort. More, if you want scary Vader.

Apart from the generic shortcoming of all Imperial ships by not having a defensive structure slot, ISD-Is carrying two offensive structure slots is particularly interesting for a big ship, and should be taken advantage of. Expanded Hanagrs with a Tractor Beam and a large fighter cloud can help any ship stay at close range and be unable to escape the fighters that are attacking it. You can even trade out the Expanded Hangars for Boosted Comms for longer striking distance with Rhymer. Having no ECM is nothing new to the Empire, just try to use the longer reach and greater potential behind fighters to make up for it.

add Soontir Fel, Dengar and 3 TIE advanced. The enemy will have to chew through the TIE advanced, but they are now counter 1 on top of one auto-damage from Soontir. They will also get Intel, and Dengar / soontir will give each other swarm re-rolls.

Nah, drop Fel and add Mithel.

add Soontir Fel, Dengar and 3 TIE advanced. The enemy will have to chew through the TIE advanced, but they are now counter 1 on top of one auto-damage from Soontir. They will also get Intel, and Dengar / soontir will give each other swarm re-rolls.

Nah, drop Fel and add Mithel.

Hard to go wrong with one or the other. Mauler is nice while you have Dengar, since he has free range of movement and can do damage even if you don't have a squadron command queued for him. Soontir's ability depends more on positioning, but if you have Intel and a squadron command, he can reposition freely mid-round to maximize the pain. Plus, with Dengar, he's Counter 3 when someone finally gets to shoot at him.

As far as the OP goes, I'm bullish on the TAs. Two or three Advanced are easy to chew through if the Rebels have dedicated anti-squadron fighters, and once you get down to two, positioning Dengar gets tricky. If you have four or five of them around Dengar, it opens up a lot more options for him, and allows for the safer deployment of multiple heroes (Dengar + some combo of Rhymer/Mauler/Howlrunner/Soontir/IG-88/etc). I'm especially liking an upgrade to Vader with multiple TAs and Dengar, as Vader's Counter 1 has a 75% chance to do damage, on top of his already spectacular anti-squadron damage. Add a squadron activation from a Raider with Flight Controllers, and that's a lot of damage to dish out.

Boosted Comms and Rhymer seems like a natural platform for builds with ISD Is, as the lack of ECMs is a bit... unsettling... after playing with ISD IIs. You can get a ten-squadron Rhymerball with Rhymer, Dengar, Vader, four TAs, and three Bombers for 132 points, which can be consistently activated by two ISD Is with Expanded Hangers each round. It's not the most potent anti-squadron fighter core, but will murder Corvettes and Raiders at an ungodly range if you have Boosted Comms.

Sure, a extremely strong Rebel fighter group can chew through 3 TIE Advanced. Each one takes a at least 2 attacks to kill and 3 on average. So while they spend roughly 2 turns killing the Advanced off your Mauler can move around and hurt all of their squadrons, picking off those that don't have the more Hull Points.

It is also smart to go I to a situation like the with Ship Anti-squadron support.

expanded hangers and boosted comms use the same slot i believe,but i could be wrong as i'm at work and can't check

expanded hangers and boosted comms use the same slot i believe,but i could be wrong as i'm at work and can't check

They do, they do, thankfully the ISD 1 has two fo these available

__

@the replies : Good points overall guys, keep them coming !

I think if you are going to use an ISD1, you should take two of them. With the prevalence of accuracy at moment, one will get burnt down way too quickly by most fleets. Don't make a single one a center piece, that's the ISD 2s job (which it does magnificently)

Still, I like the ISD1 because you can feel no shame in ramming it straight into an opposing ISD or moncal at speed 3 and giving it everything. The ISD1 actually benefits from minimal upgrades I think, unlike the 2 version. Leading shots is the main one. It doesn't really need gunnery teams, although I guess Xi7s are a good choice also. Maybe an officer of some type (wulf, or maybe intel)

ISD1 has actually very formidable side arcs, which again rewards smashing in at speed 3 and not bothering with gunnery teams. That's 5 red, two blue, 5 black at close range.

I think if you are going to use an ISD1, you should take two of them. With the prevalence of accuracy at moment, one will get burnt down way too quickly by most fleets. Don't make a single one a center piece, that's the ISD 2s job (which it does magnificently)

Still, I like the ISD1 because you can feel no shame in ramming it straight into an opposing ISD or moncal at speed 3 and giving it everything. The ISD1 actually benefits from minimal upgrades I think, unlike the 2 version. Leading shots is the main one. It doesn't really need gunnery teams, although I guess Xi7s are a good choice also. Maybe an officer of some type (wulf, or maybe intel)

ISD1 has actually very formidable side arcs, which again rewards smashing in at speed 3 and not bothering with gunnery teams. That's 5 red, two blue, 5 black at close range.

That was exactly my idea for an ISD I. It definitely doesn't have the sustainability to be a centerpiece and tank more than 1 big volley per turn due to the lack of defense upgrades. On the contrary, the idea was to be a side piece, then move up from a flank.

I definitely agree about your comments regarding the side arcs of this being a nasty proposition. Even though the front arc of the ISDs in general is very generous, I think the ability to go for both a side and front arc on the same target is what will make the ISD make its points back.

One thing that made me go towards a dedicated carrier build was the opportunities to have 2 offensive retrofits. Aside from the Phylon Q7, all of them are built towards increasing the efficiency of squadrons and against squadrons.

Hence the idea of TIE Advanced, PDR and Ruthless Strategists. There's probably some experimenting to be done, however.

Here is where I am with a heavy squadron list using an ISD 1. Move up slowly turns 1,2 and 3 if you can, then send everything you have into the fray. Motti should help keep that ISD alive for the 3 turns it needs. It may be possible to have the 6 squadrons commanded by the ISD attack in turn 2 along with the two from the Raiders. If so, so much the better. Raiders command in two of the Advanced to the ball and then swoop in to hit weakened ships with guaranteed blue hits...

(Well, it works in theory)

Motti's Fire Command
Author: Englishpete

Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Raider-II Class Corvette (48 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

Raider-II Class Corvette (48 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Expanded Hangar Bay ( 5 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Heavy Turbolaser Turrets ( 6 points)

1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 Darth Vader ( 21 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
3 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 36 points) (2 of these are commanded initially by the Raiders.)
1 TIE Bomber Squadron ( 9 points)