Now that the store splurged for cloud city and endor replacements, I doubt we'll ever see those mats again

They are jawdroppingly beautiful

Now that the store splurged for cloud city and endor replacements, I doubt we'll ever see those mats again

They are jawdroppingly beautiful

They're also illegal (they're not square) and they're slippery (because mouse-pad material).

They're pretty, but I dislike playing on them.

Now that the store splurged for cloud city and endor replacements, I doubt we'll ever see those mats again

They are jawdroppingly beautiful

They're also illegal (they're not square) and they're slippery (because mouse-pad material).

They're pretty, but I dislike playing on them.

Pretty sure square mats with rounded corners are legal, and the missing pointed corners are still counted as legal places to put a ship. Mouse pad mats don't have rounded corners to prevent them from immediately peeling apart and getting ruined.

Mouse pad mats also aren't very slippery, especially in comparison to the vinyl ones. Just don't swing a baseball bat over the mats and they'll be fine.

Now that the store splurged for cloud city and endor replacements, I doubt we'll ever see those mats again

They are jawdroppingly beautiful

They're also illegal (they're not square) and they're slippery (because mouse-pad material).

They're pretty, but I dislike playing on them.

The mats(FFG's in general) that are specifically required in the tournament rules are illegal?

Statistically SC data is a better measure of ships' effectiveness. There is a lot larger sample, larger variety of players, and variety of lists. The data just needs to be cleaned up if you want a good picture.

As you climb up the "ladder" of championships, winning lists become more about countering other effective lists, which may contain effective ships, but also tends to leave out other effective ships.

Well, you're consistent, I'll give you that. It seems that just about anytime I post anything relating to math or statistics, you find a way to disagree with me. I'm pretty sure that I could re-post what you said, in slightly different words, and you would still argue with me.

And your solution is to insult me rather than learn or debate your point... I comment whenever I see poor analytical or statistical reasoning hiding behind math because it can be misleading to the community.

I dont see an insult in his posts in anyway.

Anyway, can we get the comparison of top4 appearances of a given list? since we have most ot top4 lists we can see which ones at least place high. I would say 4TLT Y-wings arent the most played list, since everybody bash turret players and a lot of people is playing palp+aces but thats just an opinion.

Another aspect is the number of TLTs in tournaments, since i would say it is by far the most used upgrade, given almost any rebel list is playing a stresshog. I dont know if somebody already said it but i didnt see the numbers.

BTW

The mats(FFG's in general) that are specifically required in the tournament rules are illegal?

Yep. Pretty awesome. (I'm not saying they're intended to be illegal, of course. I'm simply pointing out that legal mats are 36" by 36" square, and FFG's mats are not.

And yes, PGS, mouse-pad material is slippery. It's slippery on purpose. Its slipperiness is -- for mouse-pads -- a good thing. Saying mouse-pad material isn't slippery is ... an interesting position to take.

It's sort of understandable why they went with mouse-pad material. Not only did it take a long time for a company to figure out a good formulation for a mat, those mats are quite a bit more expensive than mouse-pad material.

The mats(FFG's in general) that are specifically required in the tournament rules are illegal?

Yep. Pretty awesome. (I'm not saying they're intended to be illegal, of course. I'm simply pointing out that legal mats are 36" by 36" square, and FFG's mats are not.

And yes, PGS, mouse-pad material is slippery. It's slippery on purpose. Its slipperiness is -- for mouse-pads -- a good thing. Saying mouse-pad material isn't slippery is ... an interesting position to take.

It's sort of understandable why they went with mouse-pad material. Not only did it take a long time for a company to figure out a good formulation for a mat, those mats are quite a bit more expensive than mouse-pad material.

Weighted bases with rubber caulking on the mouse pads are stable. On Vinyl... It's like super glue.

The mats(FFG's in general) that are specifically required in the tournament rules are illegal?

Yep. Pretty awesome. (I'm not saying they're intended to be illegal, of course. I'm simply pointing out that legal mats are 36" by 36" square, and FFG's mats are not.

And yes, PGS, mouse-pad material is slippery. It's slippery on purpose. Its slipperiness is -- for mouse-pads -- a good thing. Saying mouse-pad material isn't slippery is ... an interesting position to take.

It's sort of understandable why they went with mouse-pad material. Not only did it take a long time for a company to figure out a good formulation for a mat, those mats are quite a bit more expensive than mouse-pad material.

Well, that and they don't have to order a different material than for their playmats.

Statistically SC data is a better measure of ships' effectiveness. There is a lot larger sample, larger variety of players, and variety of lists. The data just needs to be cleaned up if you want a good picture.

As you climb up the "ladder" of championships, winning lists become more about countering other effective lists, which may contain effective ships, but also tends to leave out other effective ships.

Well, you're consistent, I'll give you that. It seems that just about anytime I post anything relating to math or statistics, you find a way to disagree with me. I'm pretty sure that I could re-post what you said, in slightly different words, and you would still argue with me.

And your solution is to insult me rather than learn or debate your point... I comment whenever I see poor analytical or statistical reasoning hiding behind math because it can be misleading to the community.

While I understand how more data can be more useful in a lot of situations, I feel like player skill level generates a lot more noise than that extra data. I'm not a statistics major, so maybe you could explain how that amount of data is more beneficial.

Also, in my experience as an X-wing player over the last three years, I think smaller tournaments like most SCs can be much more about countering popular lists than regionals are. Don't get me wrong, making a good meta call takes place in both situations, but the smaller the tournament, especially one with a lot of known players, the easier it is to come up with a counter to more lists. I've won local tournaments this way alone -- not because my list/ships were particularly strong but because they were very strong counters to what was popular at the time. They were lists I'd never consider for a larger regional tournament. Not to mention, at a smaller tournament, players have a better chance of meeting lists that are "better" than their own and simply beating them based on their skill level.

In the end, I think that SC give us very good data about what is likely to win at the local level, but don't give a good idea of what the most successful ships or lists are overall. If you have a method for parsing out the data so that it does this, I think it would be productive for you actually do that than to just point out what is wrong with other people's methods. There's nothing wrong with the latter, but it isn't very effective if you don't have numbers of your own to support your conclusions.

Every tournament has their fault in the data they brings.

Store Championship, while giving use the most samples, is still to take very likely because of player's skills disparity. A strange list might win a tournament but in reality, the player running it would have won with pretty much anything because he's the best player of the store.

World Championship, while being mostly made of list from the best players, is in reality a very small sample that could have went very differently depending on some factors not taken into account. What if a player had a very lucky day that made him get into the Top 32. What if another was very unlucky and went all days against hard counter list or had cold dice.

A good example (I think) is the K-Wing. Prior to World, the common opinion that the only K-Wing worth taking was Miranda, that the Generics were crap, take something else instead. Then came World and a spectacular performance by Aaron and suddenly, K-Wing doesn't look so bad, and we start to see them pop everywhere. But what if Aaron could not make it to the tournament? Would the K-Wing go back to being Miranda only? It didn't made it into the Top 32 of World, so it should confirm that the generics are crap.

Moral of the story: Data and statistics are fine and generally a good indication, but they are not the whole story. Players should start making their own opinion about ships instead of just taking those that was flown at World or any big tournaments.

Moral of the story: Data and statistics are fine and generally a good indication, but they are not the whole story. Players should start making their own opinion about ships instead of just taking those that was flown at World or any big tournaments.

Totally agree, but I was trying to understand why store championships are a better data point.

Moral of the story: Data and statistics are fine and generally a good indication, but they are not the whole story. Players should start making their own opinion about ships instead of just taking those that was flown at World or any big tournaments.

Totally agree, but I was trying to understand why store championships are a better data point.

There are a lot of Store Championships, so it's less likely that luck in dice or squad matchup affects the aggregate results. There is a reasonable assumption, however, that skill differentials are higher in Store Championships, so that makes those results a reduced quality indicator of what ships are good. Both data sets have very real weaknesses.

Moral of the story: Data and statistics are fine and generally a good indication, but they are not the whole story. Players should start making their own opinion about ships instead of just taking those that was flown at World or any big tournaments.

Totally agree, but I was trying to understand why store championships are a better data point.

There are a lot of Store Championships, so it's less likely that luck in dice or squad matchup affects the aggregate results. There is a reasonable assumption, however, that skill differentials are higher in Store Championships, so that makes those results a reduced quality indicator of what ships are good. Both data sets have very real weaknesses.

As an aside, I'm an experimentalist, so when I'm confronted with multiple interpretations to data, I run some control experiments to control different aspects of the system I'm studying to give me a much better idea about what the actual source of an observed effect is. What do people do who can't run controls? Say, because they're studying a population in the wild or something? This is basically the kind of problem we're discussing here. We're trying to determine which ships are good, but we have to at least control for player skill disparity, and have a large enough sample size to have confidence in our observations. That's not even including differences in player inclination (some players are good with some ships and not others) and list matchup.

Stuffnpodunk Games in Belleview, FL held their first Store Championship yesterday. 53 players.

4th TLT Y, 2x TLT Y R4 Agro, N'dru Suhlak VI/Cluster Missiles/Glitterstim

This list seems pretty interesting to me. It's a nice mix of TLT and ordnance alpha strike. I am starting to see some ordnance in these lists even before Guidance Chip is out.

A punisher won a store championship

Details later

I'd like to hear those details later.

Thanks, that list was my little baby. took 2nd in a 52 person SC last weekend, of course there was a ton of luck involved. Faced quad tlts three times, A win and a loss against the same guy, he beat me in swiss with 1 Ywing left on 3 hull and was undefeated going into the semifinals where I beat him with 1 wing left on 3 hull. Fatigue had set in and he killed the non-R4 ywing first. The other time against quad tlts was in the quarter finals where our last ships killed each other on the same turn / ps step, I only progressed because I had initiative that game. Beat Palpmobile - 2 aces twice that tournament. I'd developed that list to fight Gage Middleton's Palp 2 aces list. He'd beat me 4 times in a row and is a regular winner in the Florida meta. I'd get close with other lists, but could never seal the deal.

Anyway, can't wait for guidance chips. That was the exact thought behind it. A little spiky damage in the beginning to make the first ship go down fast, then dominate the attrition. Tried Lonewolf, but VI is really needed for all the strong PS 8 in the meta right now. And the extra point let me upgrade an unhinged to an R4, which proved more useful than lone wolf.

Even if Ndru doesn't do anything, he pays for himself by the way he affects the game state.

Love this list. Was previously trying out LW Ndru and Unhinged Ys but this is just a better tweaking. Ran it at league last night and went 3-0. Pretty certain I'm going to break away from my Crackswarm and run this at my last SC this weekend. Out of curiosity how did you normally deploy it. I've been keeping the Ys in a loose bunch in one corner and Ndru off as far away as possible in the other. Any other tips greatly appreciated.

I generally deploy the Ys in a tight group in a corner and Ndru in the center. Although he wants to be outside range 2, you want them to be mutually supporting. 2 far apart and either group can get eliminated before help arrives. Field and enemy dependant. In the championship game Ndru got to setup last at PS9. I'd put the Ys in the center because there was a big enough asteroid gap and would allow me to put Ndru in either corner. I set him up directly across from the enemy deployment corner, because the opposite corner would have taken too long for him to get into support position. Initial pass went like clockwork, everyone hit their ideal range of the target simultaneously, Ndru at 1 and TLTs at 3. TLTs love range 3. With glitterstim up, a lot of opponents will choose not to shoot Ndru even when he's in front of their entire fleet.

You can be very aggressive with Ndru, just make sure the Ys are in position to support. Also cannot overstate how much the R4 helps against aces.

After first round of firing, then spread the Ys to avoid someone getting in range 1 of all of them.

I'd really wanted to run it with LW too, but not only is the extra Agro better, but stops double enticing us to make as many bad manuever decisions just to keep >range 2.

Moral of the story: Data and statistics are fine and generally a good indication, but they are not the whole story. Players should start making their own opinion about ships instead of just taking those that was flown at World or any big tournaments.

Totally agree, but I was trying to understand why store championships are a better data point.

Sorry Alex, I was not directly responding to you but about the subject in general.

Is the Store Championship really a better data point? I'm not sure. Like I said earlier, I think that both should be taken with a grain of salt, for flaws given earlier by me and other members. But, I think that they are at least a good indication as a follow up to results taken from World.

After World, there is always some builds that people start to copy. If there was no new Wave inbetween, I think that Store Championship is a good follow up to ''confirm''(too big of a word here) that the build is indeed good and not just an anomaly or a case of greater player skills. If a build is seen on and on and on in the Top 4 of various Store Championship, like Palp Ace or 4 TLT, I think we can all agree that it has at least some merit and should be taken into consideration when going into a tournament. So, I think that Store Championship will be a better data point to validate the efficiency of the Top tier builds. But when it comes down to an odd list winning somewhere with ships that is commonly considered bad, I don't think that it is good enough to prove that the ship is suddenly good, because we might have a case of Alpha Player here. And if a ship is nowhere to be seen in every Store Championship, I think we can conclude that it is universally considered a ''bad'' choice. I would not come to this conclusion about a ship from World because it's just one tournament, but there is so many Store Championship played around the world.

For my part, I think that Store Championship is the best season, because I love to see the odd lists here and there and good combos that players come up with that I didn't think of myself. Since I hate playing with the big lists of the season and prefer to go against the meta, I think those odd lists can be a source of good inspiration.

I won store champ in Auz (4x TLT unhinged Y-wings)

20 people

Fun 4 All Comics & Games, Ypsilanti, MI, 12 MAR 16:

1st - Derek [1st Swiss]

Biggs Darklighter w/ R4-D6 & Integrated Astromech

2 x Blue Squadron Pilot w/ FCS

Gold Squadron Pilot w/ R3-A2, TLT, BTL-A4

2d - Glenn [3d Swiss]

Poe Dameron w/ VI, R5-P9, Autothrusters

Jake Farrell w/ A-Wing Test Pilot, VI, Push the Limit, Autothrusters, Proton Rockets

Red Squadron Veteran w/ R3-A2, Wired, Integrated Astromech

(Lost to 2d) - Joe [2d Swiss]

Omega Leader w/ VI

Howlrunner w/ Crackshot

Wampa

3 x Black Squadron Pilot w/ Crack Shot

(Lost to 1st) - Ed [4th Swiss]

Rebel list w/ Miranda, B, Y (I think -- didn't get specifics unfortunately)

////

The most interesting list I personally faced was:

Trandoshan Slaver w/ Bossk, Gunner, Tactician

2 x Syndicate Thugs w/ TLT, Unhinged Astromech

Binarye Pirate

That multi-stress, with all those focuses and target locks even when stressed, plus the TLTs ... nasty.

Rumor has it X-Wing's original World Champion came out of retirement briefly to play at his local SC and won...with a Wave 1 Tie Swarm.

I won the Crossroad Games Store Championship in Standish, Maine - Saturday 3/12, 19 players (4 rounds Swiss, cut to Top 4)

Top 4 was:

1st - Me (4-0 Swiss)
2x Syndicate Thug w/ TLT, R4 Agromech
4x Binayre Pirate

2nd - Alex (3-1 Swiss)
IG-88A - Crackshot, HLC, FCS, Glitterstim, Autothrusters, IG 2000
IG-88B - Crackshot, HLC, FCS, Glitterstim, Autothrusters, IG 2000

3/4 - Joe (3-1 Swiss)
Boba Fett w/ PTL, K4 Security Droid, Inertial Dampners, Engine
2x Syndicate Thug w/ TLT, Unhinged

3/4 - Sam (3-1 Swiss)
Echo w/ VI, ACD, FCS, Gunner
Soontir Fel w/ PTL, Stealth, Autothrusters
Zeta Leader w/ ?

Fun fact: 4/6 games I played were against Scum Firesprays. I believe we had 4, possibly 5 out of 19 players with Scum Firespray lists, which is crazy.

Salt Lake City, Utah

Demolition Games had a 23 person store championship on 3/12/16.

First (1st in Swiss) 20 points and 719 MoV - Justin (me)

Wampa

Black w/ Crack x2

Omega Leader w/ Juke & Comms

Omicrom Group Pilot w/ Palp

Second (3rd in Swiss) 15 points 550 MoV - Stu

Omicron Group Pilot w/ Palp

Mareek Steele w/ Vet Instinc, Tie x1, Advance Targeting Computer, Proton Rockets

Vader w/ Crackshot, Engines, Tie x1, Adv Targ Comp, Proton Rockets

Top 4 (2nd in Swiss) 20 points 670 MoV - Donny

Gold w/ Twin Laser Turret, R3A2, BTL-A4

Miranda w/ Twin Laser Turret, Tactician

Poe w/ Vet Instic, Autothrusters, R5P9

Top 4 (4th in Swiss) 15 points 541 MoV - Ben

Gold w/ Twin Laster, R3A2, BTL-A4

Red Ace w/ R2D2, Autothrusters, Comms

Poe w/ R5P9, Autothrusters

What were the results from the Area 51 SC in Grapevine, Texas? I left after the cut.

Here are the results from the gamers haven store championship in Colorado Springs, co, 3/12/206.

1st - me (Kyle)(4-0 Swiss)

Omega leader, juke, comm, stealth device

Howlrunner

Zeta leader, wired

Omega squad, crack shot

Wampa

2nd - Anthony (3-1 Swiss)

Poe, vi, r5-p9, autothrusters

Ello, vi, r2d2, autothrusters

Stresshog, title, twin laser turret, r3a2

3rd - Wendy (3-1 Swiss)

Dash, heavy laser, title, push the limit, not sure what else

Miranda, tlt

Didn't see her full list I didn't play her and she was in the other semi.

4th - Michael (3-1 Swiss)

Ywing, twin laser turret, unhinged astromech x4

There were a lot of fat falcon and Miranda builds, as well as a lot of tlt's in general.

18 players total- 10 rebel, 6 empire, 2 scum. Both scum ran quad tlt.

I've got some results from the Store Championship at Dragon's Dens in Poughkeepsie, NY. We didn't have a huge turnout, only nine players in all, so after four rounds of swiss we had our top four:

Winner (Me) 4-0 [749 MOV],

Palob Godahli with Predator and TLT

Torkhil Mux with TLT

Black Sun Ace with Predator

Syndicate Thug with Autoblaster Turret

Second Place, Andrew (3-1)

Oicunn with Predator, Gunner, Mercenary Co-Pilot, Anti-Pursuit Lasers

Krassis Trellix with Gunner, Mangler Cannon, Tactical Jammer

Third Place, Jade (3-1)

Poe with Integrated Astro, R2D2, VI

Miranda with C3PO, TLT

Gold Squadron Pilot with BB-8, TLT

As a side-note, Jade was the only player out of the top four I didn't end up flying against, but she acquitted herself well, at least from what I saw from the table next to hers.

Fourth Place, Rich

Tycho Celchu with PTL, Expert Handling, PRockets, Experimental Interface, Title

Jake Farrell with PTL, VI, PRockets, Autothrusters, Title

Green Squadron Pilot with PTL, Wired, PRockets, Hull Upgrade, Title

I was honestly surprised by the small turnout, as I expected more players from the greater NYC area to show, but it seemed like everyone had a good time regardless.