Yeah, if the ship has access to a lot of mods (like Redline), Plasmas will be better, and cheaper.

oh ****. Plasmas will be good vs Defenders.

Why did I read it Phasmas will be good...

poor poor phasma

After the thread about the attani mindlink, there might be some terrifying triple defender lists. Depending on the costs for sure, but possible token stacking on 3 defenders scares my already.

After the thread about the attani mindlink, there might be some terrifying triple defender lists. Depending on the costs for sure, but possible token stacking on 3 defenders scares my already.

Pretty sure those are Scum Only.

Woo! 2 Defenders!

This is beginning to be worrisome... Now players decide to show that Defenders can make top tables, after FFG announced a fix which is going to make them that much more powerful?

Mostly kidding, but man, I am downright terrified for the Defender meta once Imperial Vets drops.

When Scum & Villainy asked me that question, I was not kidding when I said that yes, I think they're going to be borderline broken. MajorJuggler's calculations suggest that the x7 title makes cannon-less Defenders have just outstanding efficiency on top of the white K-turn. I think the /D ships are almost as good, but weighted toward offense, and have the control element.

Hopefully the introduction of burst into the meta will mess with MJ's calculations, making per-round bonuses less useful because they only matter for 1-2 rounds per ship.

Slightly off-topic, but in this case, you don't even need complicated fixed damage mitigation per turn calculations to conclude that x7 Defenders will be very cost efficient. You can just use an assumption of 1, 2, or optimistically 3 free evades over the course of it's life, and plug that into the legacy (MathWing v2.0) jousting formulas. According to my public 2.0 numbers, the Defender is worth 23 points in raw dice. It's got 6 hit points, so if it gets to use two free evades before it dies, then the raw jousting value is roughly 23*(8/6) ^0.5 = 26.5. That's still shy of the 28 points that it costs, but it is still pretty good. 26.5/28 = 94.6% efficiency.

That's essentially the baseline minimum floor for how well the ship can perform, and that's before we talk about how useful the white K-turn is, and how relatively immune to stress it is. While Vessery is an absolute offensive monster with TIE-D + Ruthlessness + tractor beam, Vessery + x7/Juke is also going to wreck face, and do it without having a giant "GLASS CANNON, KICK ME!" sign written all over him.

If the meta becomes hyper high DPS due to missiles / torpedoes, then that should skew the x7 numbers slightly from "OMG overpowered!!" to "still a solid ship that can survive the alpha strike".

I will add to this and say that triple x7 Defender lists, which I think will be among the strongest Defender lists are still pretty resistance to the Ordnance alpha. Lets say the 4-5 missile carriers of your choice get first round shots on Defenders. One missile carrier probably dies before it can fire. The remainder can just smoke a Defender. It's dead. What are you going to do about the remaining 2? Say you have enough missiles in the magazines for the second Defender, and you manage to get that Defender in arc at the correct ranges, you might tag the second Defender. The ordnance squad still is taking damage, though. Now, though, there's a full health Defender vs 2-3 empty carriers sporting two attack dice each. No hints as to who wins that fight.

I 100% believe that against Corran, or a single Defender Ace, or the like, missile alpha strikes are quite dangerous. 3 x7 Defenders, though? I don't think missiles can sustain the damage for that combination of hit points, tokens, PS, speed, and green dice.

After the thread about the attani mindlink, there might be some terrifying triple defender lists. Depending on the costs for sure, but possible token stacking on 3 defenders scares my already.

Pretty sure those are Scum Only.

Man, Scum get all the fun toys.

oh ****. Plasmas will be good vs Defenders.

They'll be okay, but I think worse than regular Protons unless you get both re-rolls and something else. They have to hit to work, and without a lot of modification, they'll have a harder time hitting.

let's face it

when would you ever use ordnance without access to various mods? 3 points for one shot better make for a **** good shot

Would have been better just to give ordnance different dice >_>

Would have been better just to give ordnance different dice >_>

But the only thing people like less than spending squad points for ordnance is spending real money for anything deemed extraneous.

After the thread about the attani mindlink, there might be some terrifying triple defender lists. Depending on the costs for sure, but possible token stacking on 3 defenders scares my already.

Pretty sure those are Scum Only.

Man, Scum get all the fun toys.

Really? I dont see anything that leads me to believe it is. The card in the fan on the original Out of Hiding preview clearly shows it has no italic text before the card effect is outlined.

I won a Store Championship at Dragon's Hoard Gaming: Paducah, KY. There were 9 players.

1st Place

Trandoshan Slavers x3, w/K4 Security Droid and Dampeners

2nd Place

OGP w/Palpatine

Darth Vader w/VI, ATC, EU

Soontir Fel w/PTL, Stealth, Autothrusters

I did not catch the order of the other lists, but they included IGC w/R4 TLT Guns, Several Poe lists, ACDC, and a Palp list with Omega Leader and Wampa.

YESSSS TOMMY! That's what I'm talkin' about!!!! The Bus Stop wins again! I couldn't be happier that you won with 3 Slavers. That's a beast of a list. K4 Security Droid just laughs at the stress-bot and Tactician.

Would have been better just to give ordnance different dice >_>

But the only thing people like less than spending squad points for ordnance is spending real money for anything deemed extraneous.

Seen the new damage deck?

Aw yes, the one without "throw your HLK+Outrider out the window, Dash" and "Sorry, Soontir, your ability, and your PTL no longer work" cards

In a CORE set...

I can bet that putting "you may use these dice instead of red ones if you want to" and putting them into some BOMBS AWAY expansion with Bomber+Ywing would have been a deal

After the thread about the attani mindlink, there might be some terrifying triple defender lists. Depending on the costs for sure, but possible token stacking on 3 defenders scares my already.

Pretty sure those are Scum Only.

Man, Scum get all the fun toys.

Really? I dont see anything that leads me to believe it is. The card in the fan on the original Out of Hiding preview clearly shows it has no italic text before the card effect is outlined.

I feel like it's a possibility that it's Scum-only, and hadn't considered it before. But it also doesn't seem the sort of thing the Rebels or Imps would do to their pilots! Being invasive and expensive, respectively.

4th:

- Torkil Mux + TLT + Tactician + Moldy crow

- Syndicate thug + Autoblaster turret + Unhinged Astromech

- Syndicate thug + Autoblaster turret + Unhinged Astromech

- Binayre pirate + Feedback array

- Binayre pirate + Feedback array

I like the list. Thanks for writing up a little bit later on in the thread. It's good to see something unique. I find that too many people don't bother with unique to really try things.

Just manage to get away with 1st place at our Store Championship in Laval, Qc, Canada.

OGP - Palpy

Colzet - x1/Accuracy Corrector

Wampa

Carnor Jax - RG Title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters and PTL

That's the first time I've really seen anyone take Colzet even casually. How did he work? Was he worth it? Congratulations on a list that at least is a little different.

I won the store championship at Something2Do in Louisville, KY tonight. 20 people there (I think...may have been 18).

3rd and fourth (not sure which was which):

4X Blue Squadron Novice T-70's with Integrated Astromech and R2 Astros

That's really cool! I always dream that one day 4 generic T-65's can win events. They are T-70's, but that's really good. I bet he was a good flyer.

28 players, 4 rounds, cut to 4.

Cut:

Winner (2nd after swiss):

Airen Cracken + Crack Shot

Miranda Doni + Twin Laser Turret + Extra Munitions + Chewbacca + Homing Missiles

Ten Numb + Calculation + Fire-Control System

(100)

...

4th after swiss:

Rexler Brath + Heavy Laser Cannon + Push the Limit + Shield Upgrade

Colonel Vessery + Heavy Laser Cannon + Veteran Instincts + Shield Upgrade

(98)

List juggler link for top 8+: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=1118

OK....is no one going to comment that the #1 list had ORDNANCE ?!?!?!? No Guidance Chip and no LRS. No "fixes" other than Extra Munitions, which has been out for a while. This makes me very happy.

I'm also happy to see the 2 Tie Defender list. I'm sick of getting into discussions with people about how I don't really believe that people are really trying out original lists. I don't think all the "good" lists are actually found and tried out yet. When I mention how Bio does well with two Tie Defenders, I'm rebuffed with that he's an "outlier". That no one else can do it or we would've seen it. I've stated that not many have actually tried it, which is different. Seems I'm not wrong on that end. Glad to see other people making a dent with two Tie Defenders and Bio isn't just an "outlier".

oh ****. Plasmas will be good vs Defenders.

They'll be okay, but I think worse than regular Protons unless you get both re-rolls and something else. They have to hit to work, and without a lot of modification, they'll have a harder time hitting.

That's a good point but I feel like Plasmas will be the go-to option for pilots that synergise with ordnance. Someone like Redline taking Guidance Chips can easily score 3-4 Hits with a Plasma Torp shot, and where he might get the same results with a Proton Torp, I feel like the Plasma has better return from only landing one or two hits past dice and tokens on an x7 Defender. The Proton is definitely better after shields but given proximity and FCS on Redline, you'd probably swap to Cluster Missiles anyway.

Pretty specific but that's how I feel about it. Never mind the potential for extra burst damage against Falcons, Shuttles, and YVs with the Plasmas. Dash too if you can pin him down.

I'm not really sure Plasma are better than Proton Torps. Yes, they are 1 pt cheaper. That is something. I do acknowledge that.

Having the die result change for Proton Torps is better than having 1 extra damage for shields. For one thing, not everyone has shields on their ship or even shields left after you do the damage you do. So, that's something to think about. Next....with Guidance Chip, you get to change 1 result to a hit/crit. What if you flub your rolls? Guidance Chip only works for one result, but if you happen to have Proton, you get to change 2 (as long as 1 was an eyeball). I have found the reliability requirement to be too great with ordnance.

I don't think any special dice are needed for ordnance. I think Extra Munitions, LRS, and Guidance Chip are enough. I wonder if Imperial Kath Scarlet would ever see use with Guidance Chip and something like Concussion Missiles, Slave 1, and Extra Munitions? The GC turns her miss into a crit due to the 3 attack dice.

Heychadwick, you've never seen Colzet flown, because you don't fly in my neck of the woods! i almost always fly my favorite of the Corvette Tie Advanced Pilots!

Giga-Bites Store Championship

Saturday (2/6/16) in Marietta, GA.

49 Players, 6 Rounds Swiss cut to top 8

I won! Here are the lists that made the cut, plus the link to the Juggler

James Matchett (3rd after Swiss)

Soontir Fel + Royal Guard TIE + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Stealth Device

Omicron Group Pilot + Emperor Palpatine

Darth Vader + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade + TIE/x1 + Advanced Targeting Computer

Brendan Dougherty (5th after Swiss)

Ello Asty + R4-D6 + Integrated Astromech + Crack Shot

Tycho Celchu + A-Wing Test Pilot + Proton Rockets + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Crack Shot

Jake Farrell + A-Wing Test Pilot + Proton Rockets + Push the Limit + Autothrusters + Veteran Instincts

Chris Silcox (7th after Swiss)

Hobbie Klivian + Integrated Astromech

Tarn Mison + R7 Astromech + Integrated Astromech

Blue Squadron Pilot + Fire-Control System

Blue Squadron Pilot + Fire-Control System

Sam Talley (2nd after Swiss)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot

Omega Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot

Omega Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot

Charles Holcomb (4th after Swiss)

Gold Squadron Pilot + BTL-A4 Y-Wing + R3-A2 + Twin Laser Turret

Blue Squadron Novice + BB-8 + Autothrusters

Blue Squadron Pilot

Blue Squadron Pilot + Intelligence Agent

Matt Blaisdell (6th after Swiss)

Arvel Crynyd + A-Wing Test Pilot + Chardaan Refit + Autothrusters + Push the Limit

Ello Asty + R2-D2 + Autothrusters + Veteran Instincts

Poe Dameron + R5-P9 + Autothrusters + Veteran Instincts

David Kelley (8th after Swiss)

Miranda Doni + Twin Laser Turret

Poe Dameron + R5-P9 + Autothrusters + Lone Wolf

Jake Farrell + A-Wing Test Pilot + Chardaan Refit + Push the Limit + Autothrusters

Juggler Link (missing some of the lists still, players have been slow to enter)

Quick Bat Reps for me

Round 1 - Regen Poe, R2D2 Red Ace and I think Keyan with PTL?

Opponent forgot to pop integrated astromech which lead to a dead Poe on round 2 (first round of firing). Keyan has a nice range 2 shot on a Warden with 3 hull left, but Miranda at Range 1 spend a shield got a 4th dice and had a target lock on Keyan. Put through 2 hits (1 on shield) and a crit on hull which turned to be a weapons malfunction so unless he rolled a perfect hit crit he couldn't kill the Warden, but he did knock the Warden down to 1 hull. Red Ace was left chasing after a Warden with 1 hull left. With SLAM running him away and the other warden behind Red Ace keeping him stressed, it was only a matter of time. The last turn was the 1 hull Warden turning toward Red Ace and SLAM'ed right to where Red Ace was about to move to. Miranda moved into range 1 and spend another shield killing Red Ace.

100 - 0

Round 2 - Adv Sensor PTL Brobots

Long match, couldn't get tactician to pop since he had Advanced sensors it was hard to nail him down. Toward the end I lost Miranda and then my Wardens had out of arc TLT shots onto Iggy B with 2 hull left. All four rolls after some mods were 3 hits, only ended up pushing 1 through total. C had 1 hit on hull, B had 1 hull left

50 - 100

Round 3 - Glitterstim Crackshot Brobots

Match was over pretty quickly, opponent fell into a tactician trap. Took out C first, got 1 K-wing behind B, Miranda and the other Warden were on the other side of the board. The game became death by 1000 cuts, as I could only put through 1 TLT shot per round till I got the others across the board. Opponent called it when it got to 2 hull and had like 6 stress on him.

100 - 0

Round 4 - Pancakes (Leebo & Dash)

This was a round against a friend who learned to play the game from me. I put him in a lot of spots where if Dash would move to get a shot since I had my Warden's in his doughnut it would get himself into double Tactician shots. Toward the end he had a pretty good shot lined up against a low hull warden with Dash. Miranda was in range 1 and rolled a Hit, Hit, Hit, Crit with a 4 hull left Dash. He rolled 1 evade, turns out the crit was Direct Hit and took out Dash first. He popped a Warden on the last turn, essentially I sacrificed a Warden so he wouldn't Barrel Roll Leebo so I could get 1 TLT shot and Miranda TLT.

100 - 31

Round 5 - Glitterstim Crackshot Brobots

Match lasted about 20 minutes before my opponent scooped. He S-looped early and all my K-Wings were out of arc because I laid up short. The other was too far back to take a shot. Put 4 more stress on it. Then I 1 banked all of them toward the stressed IG and he had banked the other way with the further back IG and moved the S-Looped 1 straight so I was out of all arcs again. Popped glitterstim on the 1 I had already put damage on but I took all my shots at the other and got all the way through shield and into 1 hull. He K-turned through a rock the other moved straight again. Next turn he moved back through the rock and rolled a crit. He scooped and called it.

100 - 0

Round 6 - Weirdly modified Sith Lords (e.g. no Stealth on Soontir, no EU on Vader)

Honestly I was starting to wear down at this point and I forgot how this match went. I lost Miranda, but she had already done her share of damage by this point.

100 - 38

Elimination Round 1 - Arvel, R2D2 Ello, Regen Poe

Opponent fell into an early stress trap which left Poe in the ICU. He held on unto the next turn. Lost a warden in the process of getting Ello. Toward the end I forgot it was Arvel and moved the Warden into block him and had an "Oh ****" moment and had to SLAM off a 1 bank. Nothing more of note after that, Miranda came up and hit him a couple turns in a row and that was game.

100 - 31

Elimination Round 2 - Hobby, Tarn, 2x FCS B-wings

Wait what, T-65s in the final four you say. Yes we were all surprised, especially our T-65 advocate who had given up on them. Hobby and Tarn pushed forward too far and ended up getting Hobby in the first round of firing, only 1 of the B-wings had a shot and not at the one he fired at with the T-65s. Snuck my K-wings behind the B-wings in the next move and a couple of turned popped both of them losing a Warden in the process. Miranda and the Warden just kept hammering at Tarn who didn't get shots at Miranda so he couldn't use the target lock she gave him but I kept getting hits through even when he made me reroll. A couple rounds and Tarn went down.

100 - 31

Final Table - Sith Lords

Oh lord was a not looking forward to this, a good player who ended Swiss in first. Miranda almost went down after taking shots from all three. I traded a Warden for Vader. The game decider happened when I got Miranda behind Soontir but right in front of the shuttle with only 1 hull left. He rolled 2 hits and decided not to Palp another....holy **** 3PO this is your time to shine, I called 1 and rolled 1. PRAISE THE MAKER!!! My opponent went you still take 1 to which I said no 1 plus 1 from 3PO and then he realized what happened. I took our the shuttle right after that with the Warden sitting behind the shuttle. We chased each other around for about 30 minutes, me sending long range TLT shots at a Soontir who lost his stealth device ages ago. Finally having two ships left to 1 paid off and I got Soontir in a pincer where he bumped Miranda and the other Warden was sitting behind him at range 1 with a target lock and focus. Ended up with 3 hits and he rolled 1 evade, 1 focus, 1 blank and that was game. Honestly if he palp'ed the extra hit on Miranda he would of won the game, but it was 2AM when we started at 11AM so it had been a long day.

100 - 31

Kwings forever!

I just saw Arvel in a list posted here.

ARVEL.

Ohhhh happy day.

I just saw Arvel in a list posted here.

ARVEL.

Ohhhh happy day.

The funny thing is so many people had forgot about Arvel that he actually worked for the player. When we were exchanging lists I even had to go ask what his ability is since I haven't seen him since the A-wing came out. I even forgot about it for a minute during the game, thank god for SLAM.

I just saw Arvel in a list posted here.

ARVEL.

Ohhhh happy day.

The funny thing is so many people had forgot about Arvel that he actually worked for the player. When we were exchanging lists I even had to go ask what his ability is since I haven't seen him since the A-wing came out. I even forgot about it for a minute during the game, thank god for SLAM.

Honestly, with how potent proto A-wing blockers have proven to be, if you really want to take the point dip (which is quite a bit admittedly), an Arvel blocker is not so bad an idea at all.

Battlegrounds store champ in Mechanicsville, VA

16 players 4 rounds no cut.

1) Ten Numb - VI, Mangler cannon

Poe - VI,bb8, integrated astromech

Blue squadron - heavy laser cannon

2) Han - Swarm tactics, Gunner, chewie, falcon title

wild space Fringer - HLC and outrider

3) Poe - juke, r2d2, comms relay, integrated astromech

Kyle Katarn - juke, moldy crow, tlt, jan ors

Gold squadron - tlt, btl-a4, r3-a2

4) Soontir - push, royal guard, stealth, autothrusters

Carnor Jax - push, royal guard, stealth, autothrusters

Vader - vi, x1, atc

Ten Numb! Oh, but the interwebs say he's no good!

Ten Numb! Oh, but the interwebs say he's no good!

Yeah that list came about as his reaction to the local ace lists (see 4th place and my beloved palp aces floundering lower in the standings) since mangler ten mangles interceptors.

Turns out it's a pretty solid all comers list in general though we are light on swarms locally.

Ten Numb! Oh, but the interwebs say he's no good!

Yeah that list came about as his reaction to the local ace lists (see 4th place and my beloved palp aces floundering lower in the standings) since mangler ten mangles interceptors.

Turns out it's a pretty solid all comers list in general though we are light on swarms locally.

Yeah, Ten Numb isn't bad, exactly, he's just incredibly overcosted. His ability combined with Mangler and VI though is a very solid counter to a big part of the current meta; Palp + Aces(specifically soontir and/or Carnor). Given he can strip Stealth Devices and tag dangerous guys like Soontir with crits early on to make them easier to take out, he can potentially more than earn his points back in those matchups. Most of the time however you won't be getting a great return on him. That said, given the amount of Soontir I saw at my SC this past weekend(Soontir was in 3 of the 5 lists I played against and was in 3 of the top 4 lists), maybe it's worth considering for this weekend since it'll mostly be the same people...

I just saw Arvel in a list posted here.

ARVEL.

Ohhhh happy day.

You didn't just see arvel in a list.

You saw arvel in THE TOP 6 AFTER SWISS.