OK. my group of acolytes stole special snow flake Starship from Black Sun Syndicate (undercover Amaranthine/Slaught Syndicate).
I called it "Devastator" Harkonnen's class Leech pattern Cutter (yeah, alot of Dune reference).

"Dimensions: 90m long, 40m m abeam at fins approx. 3 stores Mass: 0.42 megatonnes approx. Crew: max 100 crew, approx. Ultra Medium Light, interplanetary transport and assault ship, which is ultra very rare.

With some really custom components:

Compact Jovian Pattern Class 7 Plasma Drive (Power 15, Space 3, SP 0, Very Rare)
(The smallest drive ever built during The Dark Age of Technology. STC’s are lost and event techpriest’s doesn't even dare to deconstruct such wonder. It provides power to all of ship’s other systems.)

Compact Miloslav A-13 Warp Engine (Power 4, Space 2, SP 0, Very Rare)
(Allows the vessel to ether and remain in the imaterium. Required to enter the Immaterium. Reduce duration of all warp passages by half. However, roll every 3 day for Warp Encounters instead of 5.)

Mezoa Mark XI Geller Void Integrant Field (Power 0, Space 0, Scarce)
(Protects the vessel from the myriad dangers of the Immaterium. Integrates the Gellar Field into the Void Shield. Suffer a -5 to the Warp Encounters roll. If the void shield suffers a critical hit, the gellar field is damaged as well.)

Mark XI air Sustainer (Power 2, Space 1, SP 0, Rare)
(Provides clean air. Increases all Morale Loss by 2 )

Small Cargo hold
(Protects the vessel from the myriad dangers of the Immaterium..)

Ship's Assault bridge (Power 1, Space 1, SP 0, Rare)
(filled with ship controls, autopilot, vox, auspex)

Tiny Crew Quarters (Power 0, Space 1, SP 0, Rare)
(Permanently reduce Morale by 3)

PX-1000 Augur Array (Power 2, Space 0, SP 0, Rare)
(External)

Single "Glimmer" Pattern Void Shield Array Mark GTx (Power 3, Space 1, SP 0, Scarce)
(Provides a single void shield. Whenever a hit is canceled, roll a d10. On 4 or lower, ignore the cancellation and calculate the his as if it wasn't ignored. )

Quake Cannon ( capable of killing a Titan)

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now, everything may sound very |||HERESYYY!!|||, but back to the problem.


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they came to Lathes and want to trade it to another ship (more fluf wise) for mechanicus reasons (2 tech-priests in group).
From RT core, you can acquire new ships by acquisition test with negative new vessel's Ship Points Modifier. Using DH2 influence system example, you can trade your own item if it's availability is lower than the item's you want to get - add the difference to test.
The question is - HOW MUCH SHIP POINTS this "DEVASTATOR" is WORTH?

I read from fluff that similar ships exists.

An interesting conglomeration you have their. Definitely some smart players you have there, as I for one would not want to keep something like that either. As for what SP it would be worth, well, since everything on it is Archeotech, and 10 sizes smaller than a regular Archeotech component, I'd say it's worth somewhere between "instant death" and 100 SP. Taking the route of none TK, I'd go with giving them a Frigate or Raider with a few Archeotech components (like 2 max), some better quality ones, with a total worth around 50-55 SP, and maybe like 10-15 PF starting out in relation to all the friends they now have from the Lathes and Admech. Possibly have the ship start out with a full complement of trade goods, Skitari troop regiment, fighter/bomber squadrons, a couple Vortex Torpedoes, etc. if they choose Cargo Holds, Barracks, Hangers, and/or Torpedo Tubes starting out.

What you have there is almost like finding an STC. Archeotech devices on an Archeotech ship, means the data trove on that piece of hardware would be astronomical to any AdMech faction.

My players managed to capture a Dark Eldar Cruiser mostly intact through a judicious use of hit and runs, psychic powers and some Orks they had captured. After a few failed tests and pointing out that a lot of time is passing with each failed test (man PCs hate wasted time) they decided to trade it to the Mechanicus as well.

Despite insisting they should get "at least" a Grand Cruiser for it, I had the Mechanicus offer them their special Explorator cruiser from Hostile Acquisitions as is. It was a powerful addition to their fleet, I gave them some best quality servitor crew that almost definitely had spyware loaded on them. You can find its stats here if you'd like.

When they attempted to hardline for an entire fleet out of this, I also had the Mechanicus remind them that, technically, anything deemed as heretical or containing xenotech can be confiscated by the Inquisition, and anything with archeotech could be confiscacted by the Mechanicus.

They were happy with the Veritas.

Actually we are playing DH1, so I guess Profit will be translated into Influence. They are not currently throne agents, though one is ascending to become.

>>I read from fluff that similar ships exists.

The smallest warp-capable vessel that has ever existed in lore is some 600-700m ship that appears in some HH or Eisenhorn book but damned if I know, beyond that there are unmanned probes that are sometimes smaller but those are beyond the scope of this discussion

You made a ship that's smaller than a torpedo, has a fully functioning plasma drive, a warp engine, crew quarters, a life sustainer, void shields, weapons, and a cargo hold.

And you're seriously asking how many ship points its worth? You are already so far out of the setting why even bother with the rules at this point? Just make your own interpretation of how much its worth.

>>I read from fluff that similar ships exists.

The smallest warp-capable vessel that has ever existed in lore is some 600-700m ship that appears in some HH or Eisenhorn book but damned if I know, beyond that there are unmanned probes that are sometimes smaller but those are beyond the scope of this discussion

You made a ship that's smaller than a torpedo, has a fully functioning plasma drive, a warp engine, crew quarters, a life sustainer, void shields, weapons, and a cargo hold.

And you're seriously asking how many ship points its worth? You are already so far out of the setting why even bother with the rules at this point? Just make your own interpretation of how much its worth.

1) It's not, actually, smaller than a torpedo. Torps are ~60m long. But yeah, it's tiny.

2) It is true that it's rather significantly beyond the normal ruleset ... However, with Stars of Inequity, you can use the treasure templates there to get some crazy results.

Plus, I'm not sure how large the ships the Officio Assassinorum uses are. The impression that I've gotten is that they are pretty small.

Frankly, I'd have treated such a ship more like a small craft with extras than a full-up voidship that's been miniaturized. There's no way they - or anyone else, really - are going to be able to modify it at all, so there's no point building it with the normal voidship rules, and something that small is going to be viewed and treated as a small craft by starship weapons systems.

Since they're trading it in for a replacement "normal" ship, the AdMech will probably give them a fairly tricked out ship. Assume that whatever they get is made with all good or best quality components, and probably has some archeotech ones as well.

Also, free Peer and Good Reputation talents with respect to the AdMech and the faction they traded it to. Possibly also build a heavily advanced and invested contact using the Inquisitor's Handbook Contact rules and give it to them for free.

I'd say about 500?

I think you might be overestimating the ship's weight a little.

1 megatonne is 1 million tonnes. I doubt a 90m ship would weigh 420,000 tonnes.

A quick eyeball would put it at about 4-6000 tons displacement if it were a modern sea-going vessel (although it'd be quite wide for one).

You've also got both 3 and 1 void shield listed. I'm assuming 1 is the correct number.

As for what it's worth. Assuming you're not saying that a bunch more of these ships are floating around there is no alternative or equivalent, so there really is no equivalent or alternative to price it against. At that point it becomes a question of what your characters can negotiate. All the components, especially the warp engine and apparently plasma drive, are literally invaluable (due to being irreplaceable). It would be like trying to put a price tag on the Colosseum of Rome or the Lunar Lander. You can't really calculate it's market value (no blue book value on this one), because most of it has nothing to do with it's material value.

I'd say the same thing in terms of ship points, since that's supposed to be an estimation of it's value. You could say it's worth 200SP, you could say it's worth 15. You could have the AdMech get in a bidding war over it just to study the plasma drives, you could have them decide to try and murder the PC's and take it. I'd say you decide what you want to give the players from a story perspective and offer a little less than that (allowing them to bargain up). Are you willing to let them tool around in a raider? Offer them one. If they want to bargain up, add a few higher craftsmanship components.

Yeah, in my opinion, it can be tricky, at times, to do this with a mocked up ship, right out of the book. Say you captured Lord Admiral Bastille's Colossus (I tend to use that one a lot for this sort of example). You might say hat the hull is worth, base, and try to add in the cool bits (especially if you took, say BFK, and tuned it up to your player's possible class/level), but it won't have a hard and fast value, to you, to the Bastille Dynasty, who will want it back, or to the "interested buyers". It's part of what makes ships in this game sort of hard to "smash and grab", if you don't intend to master a grand fleet of your own.

This ship is also special, and further stuffed with specials. There are whole system alone the AdMech would give you their left lugnut for, and then there's the rest of it. I think, were it me, I'd more say "players, what do you want for it from the AdMech?", and then, once they have figured something appropriate out, maybe give them that, and Peer/Good Rep (AdMech), because if you don't, your Explorator might transmit a message to the Lathes, and then the AdMech will come and get it, and NOT give you anything (well, maybe some fire). If they can't come up with anything, maybe have it be a big "the Lathes owes us one/six", an let them hold some favors, that they'll spend, as needed. I can see the Lathes being very accommodating if you gave them this, as it means you are probably honest/respectful to their ways, and you'll tell them about other goodies, too.

Sorry for no more concrete numbers, but this is the game where "Profit Factor" can be vague, and depending on how you use what rules, some Endeavors can have seemingly paltry returns, while others can have staggering gains, if you racked up enough Achievement Points. Good luck with the idea, and if you do hammer out a number, I hope all goes well with it, at least to the point where, if it doesn't, it makes for more fun to be had.

I'd agree with Spatulaodoom and Venkelos - it's not so much a matter of "What can we get for this" as it is a matter of "What do we want to ask for" and "What doesn't the Lathes have available".

And, what you as the GM want to let them have*. Because from what you've described, the AdMech is going to want it about as badly as an intact STC, if not more, depending on what the STC was for. The AdMech will give someone who provides them with a damaged STC fragment an insane amount of compensation. This thing will be considerably more valuable than almost any damaged STC fragment.

*This is really the primary limiting factor on what they can get out of the AdMech. Aside from no xenostech, techno-heresy, or functionally unique items (ie, SoI treasure templates), of course.

Is this thing Imperial and verifiable? Because if yes, this is beyond priceless. The Mechanicum would give... well, next to anything. An example of such design would probably be worth an AdMech sponsorship for at least one new Warrant of Trade, possibly several, with decent ships to match. You could probably get governorship of a decent system with that, or start a serious noble house in a sector capital if you prefer.

Seriously, if your party can survive to claim the reward (because chances are, at least several factions would kill them to get at this treasure first) and know how to phrase their request, there is very little they CANNOT ask. The frakking Lords Dracon would have to fight hard to retain such a relic for their own use and not send it directly to Mars. Depending on how well the negotiations go and how urgently the players want their goodies, a high quality ship/s and possibly a new Warrant is quite achievable. Mind you, the AdMech does its very, very best to corner the market, so it is next to impossible to get an offer from someone else and live - except maybe the Inquisition. **Maybe**.

Once all the negotiations and the backstabbing is done, I´d seriously ask if anyone wants to play Rogue Trader, because that is the power level that we are talking about. Depending on how well they did I can see them having a pretty big PF+SP sum, possibly enough for several warrants or enough to have a fair amount left over (i.e. 80-100 SP+PF) after a nemesis-to-be makes his strike and sails away with part of their prize.

I think we can stop making suggestions for the OP, looking back at the title and original question I seriously doubt he knew what he was making when he designed this McGuffin. Goes to show that simply finding something sequestered away in the depths of Black Library does not a plot device make.

I think we can stop making suggestions for the OP, looking back at the title and original question I seriously doubt he knew what he was making when he designed this McGuffin. Goes to show that simply finding something sequestered away in the depths of Black Library does not a plot device make.

That or he expected his players to either not steal it in a usable condition or he expected them to keep and use it themselves.

I think we can stop making suggestions for the OP, looking back at the title and original question I seriously doubt he knew what he was making when he designed this McGuffin. Goes to show that simply finding something sequestered away in the depths of Black Library does not a plot device make.

That or he expected his players to either not steal it in a usable condition or he expected them to keep and use it themselves.

they were supposed to run and take their ship (again warp capable,created by other GM). But they killed enemy and stole their ship. I was prepared for that. Then they were supposed to keep it. But they brought it to lathes. Very good Techpriest rp in that way.

All suggestions are very valuable. Those ideas are fantastic. I liked the idea of giving a warant trade (moving from dh to rt)

I knew that this would be super valuable ship when I designed it. But currently I run grand heavy campaign. Existence of Imperium is at stake. So, I am ok with some great Power things.

Inspirations from

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5528678/1/The-Confederate

Menagerie,

Sensei

Harlock Legacy

Shadowlight shard

https://dh-the-ascended-past-and-prey.obsidianportal.com

Thing is, ships that small do have a place in fluff outside of the special snowflake bracket. Hell, there's even an example of a warp-capable vessel whose only given dimension is 90' (that's given as her height, but we don't know if she lands on her tail or her belly, so she could well be longer, but given typical imperial design philosophies, I'd be surprised if she was more than 90-120m long), with a crew of 2, and the only comment of note about her was amazement that a ship so obviously cheaply built, then neglected and poorly maintained could fly (warding gargoyles were badly worn, hull pitted from debris impacts, less than half the internal lights worked, no blessed incense). There were a number of other ships in the same novel of similar, or even smaller size, but we don't find out how many (if any of them) are also warp-capable. Well, except for the daemon vessels that almost certainly wouldn't work for long outside of the Eye.

However, the Wandering Star is an example from old, old fluff. Pre-Black Library, IIRC (in fact, going by the copyright page, Eye of Terror might well have been one of the last books from the old GWP imprint before BL). Fluff changes (the Gothic class of that era was considered a battleship, and Cobra destroyers were not warp-capable but launched from the decks of an Emperor class battleship). Of note, even fluff of a similar vintage (the Inquisition War trilogy) puts a common lower bound at around 200m with the Tormentum Malum (which is treated as a special snowflake ship, requiring a crew of only 5+servitors).

The orange techno-apes in space can make warp capable vessels that are even smaller, so its size relative to its capabilities isn't exactly out of place, but for such tech to ever be built by human hands is kind of a stretch.

For story purposes, you could elude to the ship being heavily modified by Jokaero, those elusive, banana munching monkey savants. Though the AdMech views xeno tech as heretical, many in the Inquisition actually covet Jokaero tech, and possession of live Jokaero themselves. Me thinks you just opened up a great campaign thread with this ship for your DH game without ever planning to.

The orange techno-apes in space can make warp capable vessels that are even smaller, so its size relative to its capabilities isn't exactly out of place, but for such tech to ever be built by human hands is kind of a stretch.

For story purposes, you could elude to the ship being heavily modified by Jokaero, those elusive, banana munching monkey savants. Though the AdMech views xeno tech as heretical, many in the Inquisition actually covet Jokaero tech, and possession of live Jokaero themselves. Me thinks you just opened up a great campaign thread with this ship for your DH game without ever planning to.

Interesting Idea.

My acolytes (only 2 of them did that secretly from others) already turned in that ship to Lathes and got rewarded with 5 influence points (we play DH1) and Warrant of Trade embedded in Omnisiah Axes for newly initiated Harkonnen Dynasty, and also got Honor Titles. Was also promised a ship after several years, because it is being built. Other PC's does not know about that. But know, rumors have spread about new dynasty and former owner (the organization) knows who stole it. Their Inquisitor (Tyrantine Cabal group) is furious, but still needs to protect them because of prophecy. One of the acolytes is ordo sicarius oblationist. Many Bad luck Brians.

Sounds interesting, but how the heck do you hide a ship from the rest of the party . Humm, so they need to wait for a while... possible, although in most cases by the time you get awarded the warrant you get a ship as well, so you can see to your duties. Anyway, sometimes a new dynasty does not get a new ship, but a retrofitted older one - it takes a lot less efforts and time to bring even a busted, leaking hulk to operational status than construct a ship from scratch,

If you want, have fun tormenting the players until the ship is done, but it might get tedious to wait years. Consider instead having them be on the ship and involved in the preparation for a bit... the former owner of that supership may instead focus on sneaking agents and the odd assassin in the crew instead . This will keep the payoff seeming closer to the players even as they spend a X number of sessions with the old system. If they do better, they may save themselves a lot of problems later on. Remember, even smaller warp-capable ships have crews in the thousands and usually tens of thousands, so it is like being in an entire city. In the meantime, they might get to decide some of the focus on the ship's refitting (i.e. it is mostly complete, but they could spend some influence to improve augury systems, arrange to have an auto-temple, recruit somewhat better specialist officers, etc) that could make a difference in the ship stats later on.

Sounds interesting, but how the heck do you hide a ship from the rest of the party . Humm, so they need to wait for a while... possible, although in most cases by the time you get awarded the warrant you get a ship as well, so you can see to your duties. Anyway, sometimes a new dynasty does not get a new ship, but a retrofitted older one - it takes a lot less efforts and time to bring even a busted, leaking hulk to operational status than construct a ship from scratch,

If you want, have fun tormenting the players until the ship is done, but it might get tedious to wait years. Consider instead having them be on the ship and involved in the preparation for a bit... the former owner of that supership may instead focus on sneaking agents and the odd assassin in the crew instead . This will keep the payoff seeming closer to the players even as they spend a X number of sessions with the old system. If they do better, they may save themselves a lot of problems later on. Remember, even smaller warp-capable ships have crews in the thousands and usually tens of thousands, so it is like being in an entire city. In the meantime, they might get to decide some of the focus on the ship's refitting (i.e. it is mostly complete, but they could spend some influence to improve augury systems, arrange to have an auto-temple, recruit somewhat better specialist officers, etc) that could make a difference in the ship stats later on.

oh. they convinced them that they need to give up this ship as it is bad omen for them and mechanicus wont let them go. Also they told that they will be flown to their next mission point, but they did not tell what they got for it. So, two tech-priest have Warrant of Trade, others does not know it.

Your idea is very good I think I will try to realize it.

Hmm, I am not sure if there have been cases of a Tech Priest being declared a Rogue Trader. This is a rather curious case - getting the Warrant frees you from all previous links, at least officially. An Inquisitor who gets a Warrant has to turn in the Rosette, for example - though naturally, all the allies, contacts and enemies do not just disappear. There have been cases of the Warrant being issued as a consolation prize or even a "trap" to get someone very powerful and dangerous away from her or his power base. You do not refuse a warrant of trade without spitting in the face of the Imperium. So technically, those two would no longer be a part of the AdMech priesthood.

Note that the warrant must be issued by the Imperium, not the AdMech - although the Admech can certainly sponsor someone if they really put their mind to it - and the whole ceremony generally takes place with all the pomp and circumstance that at LEAST a sector governor can muster. Your players will be in for the Ball to end all Balls (at least from their perspective).

The Adeptus Mechanicus puts together Explorator fleets which basically do the same thing as Rogue Traders: Explore the dark corners of the galaxy in search of miracles and wonders. They might be searching for strange new life forms and old civilizations if they're a Biologis, or standard respectively, but the key difference is that they're in service of Mars and not Terra.

A Tech-Priest as a Rogue Trader would be viewed as a conflict of interest by both sides, and I would be surprised if either group was comfortable with the idea. At the very least both males and females have probably removed their reproductive organs in place for a built-in Wi-Fi router or some nonsense, so at least you don't have to worry about children carrying the line on.

Hmm, I am not sure if there have been cases of a Tech Priest being declared a Rogue Trader. This is a rather curious case - getting the Warrant frees you from all previous links, at least officially. An Inquisitor who gets a Warrant has to turn in the Rosette, for example - though naturally, all the allies, contacts and enemies do not just disappear. There have been cases of the Warrant being issued as a consolation prize or even a "trap" to get someone very powerful and dangerous away from her or his power base. You do not refuse a warrant of trade without spitting in the face of the Imperium. So technically, those two would no longer be a part of the AdMech priesthood.

Note that the warrant must be issued by the Imperium, not the AdMech - although the Admech can certainly sponsor someone if they really put their mind to it - and the whole ceremony generally takes place with all the pomp and circumstance that at LEAST a sector governor can muster. Your players will be in for the Ball to end all Balls (at least from their perspective).

That's ... not strictly true. Getting a Warrant doesn't automatically release you from all prior obligations and oaths - it often does have the practical effect of releasing you from most such, and disallows you from taking on most positions in the Imperial Adeptus, and you're effectively retired from any such position you may have had ... but the Inquisition is not one of those things you can get out of so easily. Once you're in the Inquisition, you're never truly out, and once you make Inquisitor, the only way to loose the Rosette is death and/or by being found guilty by a formal conclave of Inquisitors of such crimes that you're declared Excommunicate Traitoris ... which usually leads to your death anyways.

It should be noted that there are examples of Inquisitors who are also Rogue Traders (or maybe that's the other way around) - Inquisitor Lord and Trader Militant Kobras Aquiarre(sp? Aq-something, anyways).

However, when you arrange for a Warrant to be issued to get someone out of the way because killing him would cause too many other problems, then you usually also make sure that the Warrant imposes restrictions on how much time the bearer can spend in the Imperium and under what conditions and where they can and cannot do so. And/or you usually make sure that the Warrant has some sort of requirement on it that the bearer must do "X", where "X" is beyond the Imperium, and usually both difficult and hazardous to one's health.

That being said, I'd agree that a Tech-priest being declared a Rogue Trader and being issued a Warrant would be extraordinarily unusual. Frankly, the "most likely" way for a Tech-priest to make Rogue Trader would be one of two ways - first option, being a long-shot heir to an existing Warrant and entering the AdMech and then later inheriting by virtue of being the last acceptable heir-candidate remaining (all others being dead or otherwise not suitable to get the Warrant), second option, finding/acquiring that most rare variety of Warrant, the Bearer-Warrant, and then keeping/using it for oneself. Neither is particularly likely.

However, I can believe that the AdMech would hold onto any Bearer-Warrants it found to use as bargaining chips with outsiders.

Frankly, though, internal AdMech politics are not likely to result in arranging a rival to get a Warrant - if a rival Magos needs to be gotten out of the way, you get him reassigned to a distant Explorator Fleet, or reassigned to a deep space monitoring station or a stellar research facility in an uninhabited system. Or you arrange for a laboratory accident ... or for some problem(s) to happen during his next cybernetic upgrade or major maintenance cycle.

Hm, I was under the impression that Kobras Aquiarre was no longer technically an Inquisitor Lord when he (I think it was a he) got the warrant. That was more of a technicality, however. Now that you mention it, though, I remember some other inquisitors being named Rogue Traders - whether they were only inquisitors before they got the warrant or retained the rosette later I am not sure. I think this is where it goes into headcanon territory.

Kobras was definitely both - although if it's not explicitly stated, I think it's heavily implied that he inherited his Warrant, rather than got a Warrant as a reward or to move him out of the way.

I say he was both because if you look at Radical's Handbook, Kobras was the one who set up the initial Inquisition facilities on Phaenon Prime. Then he moved on to other things, and the Inquisitors there would eventually evolve into the Phaenonites. But when he first came to Calixis (before setting up the facility on Phaenon Prime) he brought his Dynasty's fleet with him. And then he would ultimately disappear into the Expanse.

I would think that anyone with both Warrant and Rosette would normally have gotten the Rosette first and the Warrant later - making it to Inquisitorhood and earning your Rosette is not an easy thing to do, and I would think that if you have a Warrant, you're unlikely to be able to spare the effort to invest towards getting the Rosette, and it's unlikely that a Warrant-bearer would even have the inclination to do so. I suppose that if one were already very close to getting your Rosette when you got the Warrant you might still get the Rosette, but such would be unusual.

I understand that giving the Warrant to techpriest is quite strange. Also, it should be given atleast by Sector Governor. I remember that governor of Calixis sector can do that. I decided that The Fabricator of Lathes had captured the Warrant and those techpriests won it for best STC. But it is more like Explorator Warrant, which has special conditions: any lost STC or something like that must be brought to Lathes Fabricator, and Fabricator can issue some orders to them. Fabricator does not know that they are acolytes.