Just recently, both here and on reddit, there have been a number of posts from players wanting to play scum and asking for advice. Generally, the responses collate down to "buy a pair of aggressors". I play a lot of scum (and I love the aggressor -fun to fly, hits hard and is durable (with the right upgrades) so I'm not trying to put it down!)

"Buy a pair of aggressors" is only good advice if you have played X-wing for a while (mainly arc dodgers) and have the following upgrade cards -Heavy Laser Cannon, Autothrusters, Veteran Instincts/Push the Limit/Predator/Crackshot, Fire Control System/Advanced Sensors.

If that isn't you, don't buy a pair. The reasons are:

• The aggressor pack only comes with two cards you see on "competitive" IG builds. Mangler Cannon and Inertial Dampeners. So, you are going to need a pile of upgrade cards (from a variety of different ships) in order to get durable, hard hitting ones. That's expensive (and time consuming if you are trying to buy individual cards rather than the ship)
  
• They are very unforgiving and hard to fly. Large bases, S turns, lack of a 3 turn mean you have to be very careful lest you find yourself stressed, blocked and at R1 of enemy ships. If you don't have experience with achieving range control and manoeuvring on a large base ship, these aren't the ships you are looking for.

Once you have auto thrusters (Starviper), Crackshot (Khiraxz - this also gives you predator) and at least a Fire Control System (but Advanced Sensors is imho better), then go ahead and buy one (this is for competitive use). If you are playing casually with proxied cards or lists from a squad builder- definitely buy one. But use the money for the second one to buy most wanted, or a hounds tooth instead. You'll have more fun and learn faster.

hope this helps!

On a contrary note many players don't play in tournaments and can proxy cards to their hearts content.

Furthermore a new player who starts using a pair of large base ships that are unforgiving may be able to speed up their learning curve on positioning and importance of actions.

And as always, first rule: HAVE FUN!!!

Buying 2 IG-2000s is pretty great for a new player because they provide a lot of interesting options and combined are a fairly cheap way to enter the Scum faction. Sure, you aren't competitive without Autothrusters, but most new players aren't playing competitively. What the packs do give is...

• Four different pilots you can field in six different combinations.
• The option to use a cannon with two choices for each ship
• The option to take bombs with two choices for each ship
• Four different illicit options for each ship
• A cool new movement mechanic in the Segnor's Loop
• Most importantly, enough points for a full 100 pt Scum army without buying anything else! Most X-Wing games are 100 pts, even in casual play, so this is huge.

All of those things give the 2 IG-2000 expansions a lot of play value even if they won't be competitive right out of the box.

I think new players should try out a variety of ships or buy the ones they like the look of. It only takes a handful of games to get the feel of the ships you might want. As more scum ships come out you can bet the bro-bots hotness will cool off.

Or you can start with non-competitive builds.

I disagree. One of the best way to improve quickly is fly large base maneuverable ships. You really learn measurement quickly when you have to add/subtract an additional one. AND they have the benefit of outlasting a lot of equal skill players and basic players.

If you're the newbie with a competitive build you'll beat other newbies, you'll challenge average players, but that veteran will still punish you when you make a mistake.

It depends on what you plan on playing and what your goals are. If you want to play S&V competitively but have a limited budget, then going straight for the brobots build would be the best step. However if you are trying to go for a collection and want to have variety in your lists then you might want a different purchasing strategy. Still as it has been mentioned before the only way to get good competitively at X-wing is to continue to play lists that your are familiar with.

As I said before this game is best played when you pick a primary faction and a secondary faction. If you plan on playing Scum primarily but want to try some rebel lists as well then going with the MW pack first actually is a good option. If you like being the bad guys (yes SW has the good vs bad plot, quit trying to make it like the prequels with negotiations) and want to play Imps and Scum then Brobots might be the thing to go to as the autothrusters upgrades easily transfer over to the Imperials with pilots like Soontir which you should build to next if competitive play is your priority.

Just to recap, I'm not saying you shouldn't buy any aggressors, I'm saying don't buy two first up.

Flying one gives you the same benefit of learning to manoeuvre large base ships and allows a new player to test out the other scum ships at the same time, for lower cost. I totally get that not everyone flys competitively and so doesn't need the cards, but in that case, do that with a variety of ships (try it with a firespray or a YV, HWK or Kavil - whatever floats your boat).

The other thing is that Aggressors require high levels of pilot skill AND competitive upgrades. They are very unforgiving to fly and therefore, imo not the best ship for a new player to learn with. The objective is to have fun, and getting your "competitive" super list repeatedly blasted off the board doesn't sound like fun. Sure, IF you are playing against people who are willing to take the time to explain what went wrong and what you can do better, that can be a learning experience.

I guess that imo the engage/disengage cycle is hard for experienced players to execute - doubling up that pain for a new player doesn't seem to make sense.

You can also get to 100pts by getting Most Wanted and an Aggressor, or Aggressor and YV, so dual aggressors is not the only way to get to 100pts with only a couple of purchases.

It depends on what you plan on playing and what your goals are. If you want to play S&V competitively but have a limited budget, then going straight for the brobots build would be the best step. However if you are trying to go for a collection and want to have variety in your lists then you might want a different purchasing strategy. Still as it has been mentioned before the only way to get good competitively at X-wing is to continue to play lists that your are familiar with.

Thing is, if you want to play competitively, brobots is really expensive, because of the upgrade cards you need for the competitive builds.

I fully agree that playing lists is the best way to improve, but at the same time the brobot learning curve may be way too steep for a new player to navigate without getting discouraged.

If you like being the bad guys (yes SW has the good vs bad plot, quit trying to make it like the prequels with negotiations) and want to play Imps and Scum then Brobots might be the thing to go to as the autothrusters upgrades easily transfer over to the Imperials with pilots like Soontir which you should build to next if competitive play is your priority.

The other great thing about this is that you'll get the requisite Push the Limit upgrades in Imperial Aces.

If you like being the bad guys (yes SW has the good vs bad plot, quit trying to make it like the prequels with negotiations) and want to play Imps and Scum then Brobots might be the thing to go to as the autothrusters upgrades easily transfer over to the Imperials with pilots like Soontir which you should build to next if competitive play is your priority.

The other great thing about this is that you'll get the requisite Push the Limit upgrades in Imperial Aces.

And when you get the shuttle, you'll have the requisite Adv Sensor card. Also, the firespray fits in better with imperials.

One thing that buying 2 Agressors straight away allows you to do is to synch your pilot skills. Buying two (if borrowing isn't an option) actually has a benefit unique to this ship.

That being said I'm not advocating for new players to necessarily buy two immediately as this is very much a case by case basis. For some people it will be great, for others not so much. Just because it isn't the way you would do it doesn't mean that's the case for everyone.

It depends on what you plan on playing and what your goals are. If you want to play S&V competitively but have a limited budget, then going straight for the brobots build would be the best step. However if you are trying to go for a collection and want to have variety in your lists then you might want a different purchasing strategy. Still as it has been mentioned before the only way to get good competitively at X-wing is to continue to play lists that your are familiar with.

Thing is, if you want to play competitively, brobots is really expensive, because of the upgrade cards you need for the competitive builds.

I fully agree that playing lists is the best way to improve, but at the same time the brobot learning curve may be way too steep for a new player to navigate without getting discouraged.

Not necessarily. HLCs are found in Shuttles, Slave 1 and the hounds tooth but the mangler cannon that comes in the pack works just as well. The Star Viper gives you 2 Autothrusters and acting as another scum ship if you want to mix things up with the hounds tooth. FCS is found in the Phantom which is still a good ship for imperials if you are playing imps as your secondary faction. but if you want to go all scum the crackshot is in the Hounds tooth and the Kihraxz if you want more scum ships.

If you looked at the top of the Worlds lists brobots were usually the cheapest list (even after adding a Core Set). So to say that it is too expensive to play well if you are a casual that has a very low budget then that could be said for any competitive list. The whole point is to figure out what style you want to play have a goal and then make a plan to work for that goal. IF you want to play competitive scum then you know exactly what to get and you don't need the entire collection of X-wing which can get REALLY EXPENSIVE. However if you want to experiment with a different build that is not competitive you are going to need a larger selection of ships and upgrades which will cost way more than jsut buying the necessary expansion for a top tier build.

Or you can start with non-competitive builds.

Well I did make a format suggestion for ensuring non competitive builds but that wasn't too well received. People want to play X-wing in a style that they have the most fun with and right now the most popular style is competitive 100 point standard. Sure it is easy to get burned out from that style and want to try something else, but it is fairly easy to break that style with gimmick list or other formats like escalation.

The point is X-wing is a lot more fun if you know what style and how you want to play and make a plan on how to play by that style. But as with all table top games, you have to play the game that others want to play as well. If you want to play Axis and Allies but everyone else wants to play Scrabble. You either play Scrabble now or play nothing until you can find other players for Axis and Allies later and there is no guarantee that later will come in the same day.

One thing that buying 2 Agressors straight away allows you to do is to synch your pilot skills. Buying two (if borrowing isn't an option) actually has a benefit unique to this ship.

That being said I'm not advocating for new players to necessarily buy two immediately as this is very much a case by case basis. For some people it will be great, for others not so much. Just because it isn't the way you would do it doesn't mean that's the case for everyone.

Absolutely, the combination of pilot skills is unique and fun.

Agree on the second point as well....this topic was to counter the general "buy two aggressor and you are done" advice that I'd seen on most topics when people starting scum asked for advice.

Or you can start with non-competitive builds.

Well I did make a format suggestion for ensuring non competitive builds but that wasn't too well received. People want to play X-wing in a style that they have the most fun with and right now the most popular style is competitive 100 point standard. Sure it is easy to get burned out from that style and want to try something else, but it is fairly easy to break that style with gimmick list or other formats like escalation.

The point is X-wing is a lot more fun if you know what style and how you want to play and make a plan on how to play by that style. But as with all table top games, you have to play the game that others want to play as well. If you want to play Axis and Allies but everyone else wants to play Scrabble. You either play Scrabble now or play nothing until you can find other players for Axis and Allies later and there is no guarantee that later will come in the same day.

Your "suggestion" was a complete misunderstanding of what was going on in Netrunner. And the what the Most Wanted List actually was going to do.

And your "suggestion" post was beyond laughable. Banning any potential good combo used in the top of the top squads is amazingly stupid with no foresight. You have no understanding on what the purpose of a Banned/Restricted list is supposed to do.

And, not too shockingly, you misunderstand what I posted in this thread. When trying to get a player into this game, do NOT place emphasis on the top tier competitive game. Focus on more fun games. Dear god, do not bring your A game squads first someone who is starting out on $100 of X-wing stuff. I know we place a lot of emphasis on the competitive game in this forum. But, taking the attitude of, if you are not playing the best of the best, then you might as well not be playing is beyond idiotic.

Vader is playable with out the X1 title. Interceptors can function without Autothrusters. Chardaan Refit is not necessary to fly A-wings. X-wings don't require Integrated Astromech. And you know what? I sure as hell am still going to use HLC Defenders (and Mangler on Maarek) once Imperial Veterans comes out.

Or you can start with non-competitive builds.

Well I did make a format suggestion for ensuring non competitive builds but that wasn't too well received. People want to play X-wing in a style that they have the most fun with and right now the most popular style is competitive 100 point standard. Sure it is easy to get burned out from that style and want to try something else, but it is fairly easy to break that style with gimmick list or other formats like escalation.

The point is X-wing is a lot more fun if you know what style and how you want to play and make a plan on how to play by that style. But as with all table top games, you have to play the game that others want to play as well. If you want to play Axis and Allies but everyone else wants to play Scrabble. You either play Scrabble now or play nothing until you can find other players for Axis and Allies later and there is no guarantee that later will come in the same day.

Your "suggestion" was a complete misunderstanding of what was going on in Netrunner. And the what the Most Wanted List actually was going to do.

And your "suggestion" post was beyond laughable. Banning any potential good combo used in the top of the top squads is amazingly stupid with no foresight. You have no understanding on what the purpose of a Banned/Restricted list is supposed to do.

And, not too shockingly, you misunderstand what I posted in this thread. When trying to get a player into this game, do NOT place emphasis on the top tier competitive game. Focus on more fun games. Dear god, do not bring your A game squads first someone who is starting out on $100 of X-wing stuff. I know we place a lot of emphasis on the competitive game in this forum. But, taking the attitude of, if you are not playing the best of the best, then you might as well not be playing is beyond idiotic.

Vader is playable with out the X1 title. Interceptors can function without Autothrusters. Chardaan Refit is not necessary to fly A-wings. X-wings don't require Integrated Astromech. And you know what? I sure as hell am still going to use HLC Defenders (and Mangler on Maarek) once Imperial Veterans comes out.

The ship-upgrade combo wasn't banned just the pilot-upgrade combo. Switching the pilot or the upgrade would have been fine for the list but if that wasn't clear enough then still i place the blame on myself.

So about new player well to be fair if I was playing against a new player as an instructional game I would make both lists myself out of my collection (i did collect to have another player use my collection as well) and make them fairly even using upgrades that are not top meta but just ones to show functionality. I would include X-wing and TIE-fighters or T-70 and TIE/FOs as those would be what you find in a core set and equip with all types of upgrades such as torpedoes ion cannons, a turret and a large ship like a Firespray just to show all the functions of the general mechanics of the game. Also it shows which upgrades may be good and which ones may be bad and why. Once they get into their own collection and begin their own style of playing X-wing then that is fine and if they want to borrow a ship and upgrade to test a list I loan the mine. Of course it doesn't make sense to use a fat falcon list one someone who just got a core set and a few expansions. But correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think you are a new player.

As for viability it comes more with consistency. Vader is not that consistent without ATC. A-wings with missiles are also not that consistent but A-wing are consistent enough to be of value at 15 squadron points and if you are not filling that slot why not open up a few points for the rest of your list or continue the initiative bid. If you want to fly HLC Defenders against a list which is more consistent then go ahead and do so. But don't complain if a championship list that has already been proven to have one of the highest rates of consistency comes out as the winner.

Completely disagree. Brobots are powerful and easy to fly, perfect for newbies. A friend played 2 games of x wing and then went 4-1 with them at a tournament. Round one he even flew one off the table turn two and still won the game!

Right, don't buy two. Buy four.

Newbies, play rebels, they forgive and forget mistakes.

Completely disagree. Brobots are powerful and easy to fly, perfect for newbies. A friend played 2 games of x wing and then went 4-1 with them at a tournament. Round one he even flew one off the table turn two and still won the game!

I don't even want to know how you lose 50% of your list and still win...

Completely disagree. Brobots are powerful and easy to fly, perfect for newbies. A friend played 2 games of x wing and then went 4-1 with them at a tournament. Round one he even flew one off the table turn two and still won the game!

sounds like his enemy was such a newbie he could have flown scyks xD

Huh, this thread totally didn't go the way I expected from the title.

When I first got into X-Wing, I started with Brobots and had an absolute blast. They're incredibly fast, highly maneuverable, fairly lethal and very survivable.

As I got more into the game, I wanted to branch out into other lists. Unfortunately, after starting with the Iggies, flying anything else felt like piloting a delicate porcelain cow through a river of molasses.

My advice to new players is the same: Don't jump in and buy two Aggressors. You'll be ruined for the rest of the ships in the game. When you start off ruling the sky like an angel of death, it's hard to adjust to scrabbling around in the dirt with all the other plebs.

I would actually also recommend to buy 2 Aggressors after the new Starter if you want to fly Scum.

Because you will buy a Starviper a bit later anyway probably, and then you really only lack a good systems upgrade. But IG's do pretty well with FCS, Advanced sensors or Sensor Jammers, so you have a lot of choice!

Basically after the IG's you need 2-3 ships and you can play pretty competitively already. Not every ship can claim that!

Basically after the IG's you need 2-3 ships and you can play pretty competitively already. Not every ship can claim that!

2 IG boxes

1 starviper box

2 B wing boxes \ 2 Ewing boxes \ 2 lambda boxes

2 kihraxz boxes \ 2 defender boxes \ 2 Awing boxes \ Imp Ace box

т_т

yeeeah, 2-3 ships

Basically after the IG's you need 2-3 ships and you can play pretty competitively already. Not every ship can claim that!

2 IG boxes

1 starviper box

2 B wing boxes \ 2 Ewing boxes \ 2 lambda boxes

2 kihraxz boxes \ 2 defender boxes \ 2 Awing boxes \ Imp Ace box

т_т

yeeeah, 2-3 ships

Okay, so you need 5 ships at most. I would probably go 2 Kihraxz which are not lost for a Scum player for (PTL or Predator) and then Advanced sensors or FCS. If you took 2 shuttles you would get Sensor jammer on top of that! It's bad coincidence (or not...) that no ship gets a useful EPT/Systems combo for the IG

Now which other competitive list needs less purchases. Not many!