I bought a defender for predator to put on wedge, but then I had an idea. TL:DR defender is super mobile (all green straights and banks to shed PTL stress and its white 4K) and has both two actions and two attacks per turn in arc (assuming one of those actions was a focus) plus Rex's native ability.

rexfett (100)

Rexler Brath (44)

Push The Limit (3), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Boba Fett (56)

Outmaneuver (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Ion Bombs (2), Intelligence Agent (1), Engine Upgrade (4)

Boba will see a maneuver at the beginning of the activation phase so both ships can adjust accordingly. In combat he fires a TL HLC and the second he boosts past and fired four dice range 1 put his butt, hopefully out of arc triggering outmaneuver (that does trigger w/ his rear arc, right? Ion bombs give extra control of needed.

Do you think this can take the meta? Suggestions?

I'm 99% sure Outmaneuver triggers from auxiliary arc, yes. You have good control with ion in your list. I think this could be competitive if you fly it enough to get comfortable with it.

I don't think so. The Defender's main weakness (other than its cost) is that it has relatively poor turning capabilities. One of the Firespray's main weaknesses is... that it has relatively poor turning capabilities. It doesn't have the 1 turns of the YT-1300 or YT-2400, lacks a turret like the Decimator, and lacks the incredible value of the Decimator. With a two ship list, each ship needs to be able to act by itself - a fat turret can handle itself, an ace can fly circles around lesser competition, and things like Brobots work well too. But the Firespray and Defender just don't complement themselves well.

I've seen people do decently with an Imperial Firespray plus a miniswarm so you have a squad of TIEs to prevent people from sticking around your flanks where you can't shoot, but the fact is that none of the Imperial Firespray pilots have all that useful abilities either.

If you really wanted to use a build with the Firespray, I'd run Krassis (because he actually has a bit of additional dice modification) or the general Bounty Hunter for some value. So I'd do something like this:

Krassis Trelix - 46

• Base - 36
• HLC - 7
• Rec Spec - 3 (the Firespray has a bit of a glass jaw so having two focuses to modify Krassis' boosted attack and another to spend on defense is pretty good

Howlrunner - 18

Academy Pilot - 12

Academy Pilot - 12

Academy Pilot - 12

I won't call this a top dollar list, but, it gives you some more bang from the Firespray with a solid backup force to flank.

If you wanted a Defender list on the other hand, it works pretty well with an ace like Darf or Soonts, occasionally another Deffy and maybe Jonus, or also with a miniswarm. If you want Brath on your team, this is about how I'd do it.

Rexler Brath - 39

• Base - 37
• TIE/D - 0
• Tractor Beam - 1
• Crack Shot - 1

Gamma Squadron Veteran - 23

• Base - 19
• TIE Shuttle - 0
• Fleet Officer - 3
• Wired - 1

Placeholder Onyx Squadron

• TIE/D - 0
• Ion Cannon - 3
• 3 spare points to plug Iran Ryad or a Glaive Squadron in

Brath's main virtue isn't his ability, it's that he has the highest base PS of any Defender. Put a tractor beam on him and he can lower the enemy's agi for both his "real" attack and for the rest of the squad. Use your action for a Target Lock, trigger Fleet Officer to give him the spare focus to use for his attack, then try to dump on the targets with the remaining attacks.

Brath and Jonus seem like they'd work together, but I think they're both a bit too pricey to function alongside each other.

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

Flechette Cannon 2

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 32

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

Flechette Cannon 2

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 32

Bounty Hunter — Firespray-31 33

Slave 1 0

Recon Specialist 3

Long range scanners 0

Ship Total: 36

Tie defenders with a rec spec firespray were already a solid set up with veterans you up the firepower and give the firespray a first turn TL.

I don't think so. The Defender's main weakness (other than its cost) is that it has relatively poor turning capabilities. One of the Firespray's main weaknesses is... that it has relatively poor turning capabilities. It doesn't have the 1 turns of the YT-1300 or YT-2400, lacks a turret like the Decimator, and lacks the incredible value of the Decimator. With a two ship list, each ship needs to be able to act by itself - a fat turret can handle itself, an ace can fly circles around lesser competition, and things like Brobots work well too. But the Firespray and Defender just don't complement themselves well.

I've seen people do decently with an Imperial Firespray plus a miniswarm so you have a squad of TIEs to prevent people from sticking around your flanks where you can't shoot, but the fact is that none of the Imperial Firespray pilots have all that useful abilities either.

If you really wanted to use a build with the Firespray, I'd run Krassis (because he actually has a bit of additional dice modification) or the general Bounty Hunter for some value. So I'd do something like this:

Krassis Trelix - 46

• Base - 36
• HLC - 7
• Rec Spec - 3 (the Firespray has a bit of a glass jaw so having two focuses to modify Krassis' boosted attack and another to spend on defense is pretty good

Howlrunner - 18

Academy Pilot - 12

Academy Pilot - 12

Academy Pilot - 12

I won't call this a top dollar list, but, it gives you some more bang from the Firespray with a solid backup force to flank.

If you wanted a Defender list on the other hand, it works pretty well with an ace like Darf or Soonts, occasionally another Deffy and maybe Jonus, or also with a miniswarm. If you want Brath on your team, this is about how I'd do it.

Rexler Brath - 39

• Base - 37
• TIE/D - 0
• Tractor Beam - 1
• Crack Shot - 1

Gamma Squadron Veteran - 23

• Base - 19
• TIE Shuttle - 0
• Fleet Officer - 3
• Wired - 1

Placeholder Onyx Squadron

• TIE/D - 0
• Ion Cannon - 3
• 3 spare points to plug Iran Ryad or a Glaive Squadron in

Brath's main virtue isn't his ability, it's that he has the highest base PS of any Defender. Put a tractor beam on him and he can lower the enemy's agi for both his "real" attack and for the rest of the squad. Use your action for a Target Lock, trigger Fleet Officer to give him the spare focus to use for his attack, then try to dump on the targets with the remaining attacks.

Brath and Jonus seem like they'd work together, but I think they're both a bit too pricey to function alongside each other.

I've seen players do incredibly well with duel firesprays. Both imperial and scum variations.

I've also done well with a fett and Ig88B build

If you don't think it can do well in a two ship list then I'm afraid your doing something wrong

However it is becoming lacking due to all the new goodies and patchwork done to older ships, but that still doesn't mean it cannot do well in a two ship list

No it doesn't have a one turn, but that doesn't mean it can't act on its own.

So long as you know it's dial well and account for its maneuver, that shouldn't make or break a ship.

Scum kath is nasty,

Mandolornian mercs are great

I also recently won two games against a swarm the other night with two mandolornian mercs and a kihraxz fighter (which died both games before it got to shoot so may as well not have been there...except it made for good fodder)

If anything a hlc on a firespray isnt top choice either.

With the big base, even moving at the slowest speed your moving 3base lengths.

It doesn't take long at all before your in that range 1 and now you'll want to kturn rather than make good use out of the rear arc to use the hlc.

If anything Id say hlc is not a solid choice.

At range 1 you get 4 dice

No hlc out of rear arc.

If using rear arc, then that 7 pts not being put to good use.

A Defender/Firespray list's success is HEAVILY contingent on your opponent's willingness to joust.

Any lateral play is going to precipitate on your imperial march.

I agree with pretty much everything Krynn said. Boba needs dice mods and the HLC would be better on the defender or else a lower costed firespray like krassis/hunter as mentioned above. From there you have plenty of ways to spin it.

If your using unreleased content anyway then try navigator crew and add long ranged scanners for boba. His ability to control range is fantastic and synergizes perfectly with LRS.

VI or predator EPT depending what you face regularly. I find Ps8 is often good enough but if you see ps9+ the whole combo is pretty much irrelevant so theres that to consider. I fly with either just depending.

Brath with HLC and predator is tried and true and a much better fit although I've had good experiences with the /D like your using. The problem here is its a 2 ship build and one is the obvious target. Plus his primary attacks aren't going to be spectacular at R3 and he's still just as fragile as the HLC version which hits much harder.

Another option is to go with x7 title which is insanely durable in my experience so far. Vess does action economy and cost better but hes also not PS8 either. meh your call but either way if you go x7 throw crackshot on. Also If you go this route you could easily roll a 3 ship list.

Which leads me to more unreleased content! You could squeeze a tie bomber with shuttle title in and load it with tactician + rebel captive. At 21 pts its a fairly durable and fairly annoying little dude I've been enjoying pairing up with boba.

Anyway just some friendly ideas.

Im planning to try

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

· Lone Wolf (2)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Firespray-31: · Krassis Trelix (36)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

· Rebel Captive (3)

· Slave I (0)

TIE/fo Fighter: Omega Squadron Pilot (17)

Crack Shot (1)

Or something similar. I imagine it will be reasonably competitive.

I have been experimenting with Boba and a Defender. I started with Brath, and never used his ability, but it was nice to have a PS8 defender. I switched to Vessery and I felt like I had to play around his ability, which is bad because your opponent can predict your moves more easily that way.

I ran Boba with the following:

Expert Handling (without EU I needed some sort of repositioning ability, and even though the firespray has the green moves of a T65, it was still a good choice. It was a good way to break away from combat and drop TLs, which is a good benefit for defense.)

Navigator: Because Imperial Boba Fett.

Advanced Homing Missiles: To kill B wings and Corran without dealing with their stupid shields.

Proton Bombs: Same as above, but can also kill swarms.

Slave 1: To get EM and access to LRS.

Extra Munitions: Double missiles and bombs!

Long Range Scanners: Imp Boba suffers to get offensive modification, so I gave him these to pick up TLs round 1. If I am at range 1-2 I usually focus or barrel roll anyway. The main thing here is that this upgrade supports a strafing style of attack. Blast through, Fire a fully modded AHM at an ace, or do a primary attack at R1. Next turn drop a proton bomb if people are there and then repeat.

Comes in at 54 points. Pretty fat, but I like my upgrades because they all serve a specific role in my list.

I mentioned this on the firespray topic the other day, but I think it stands to be restated. You can build a Firespray to combat almost any type of enemy. I built mine to kill regenerating ships. I could very well drop Expert Handling to take VI to further specialize, but VI Corran usually doesn't have EU, and is fairly easy to predict. Poe usually has PS10 anyway, so I would have to add an initiative bid, and in many games VI on PS8 would be a waste of an EPT, so I don't really want to take it, I already have the tools, I just need to use them. Boba can die like a punk against swarms, so the plan is to take a page out Kath's playbook and K turn early. As the other ships chase I can drop proton bombs to thin out the swarm.

I prefer running Boba with Rexlar with the Tie/D title, more attacks and control are essential for a 2 ship list. I also like having the freedom of choosing who to activate/shoot first. I'm not sold on a loadout, but I like Lone Wolf, Ion Cannon, and Tie X1 Engines for 44 points. That leaves me at 98 points, which is a good initiative bit for PS8 brobots. If I change anything it will be the x1 engine on Brath for an additional 1 point initiative bid.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If it wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

I think they could work well together. It's something I would like to try.

Well dang. This is going to need testing, but...anyway.

I really love both the Firespray and the Defender. I'd never really considered being able to run them together. As is, I still don't think a two-ship list is quite the right way to go but I feel like we're getting closer. This thread has made me determined however to dust off an old archetype I've used quite a bit and adapt it now that the Defender will have the x7 title available soonish.

I used to run double RecSpec Firesprays quite a lot because they hit hard and withstand all sorts of punishment. The two of them can easily strip down a Falcon or Decimator if they keep it in arc. Rendar is a bit tricky but he has his drawbacks. Anyway, I used to get by with a Shuttle or two TIEs, but since I couldn't quite fit in two Crackshot Black Squadron Pilots or even a Palpatine Shuttle, I hung up the list and wanted to come back to it later.

Bounty Hunter (33)

Recon Specialist (3)

Bounty Hunter (33)

Recon Specialist (3)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I really need Imp Vets before Regionals. Really really.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

Well, I must have missed reading where multiple Defenders have been winning various tournaments across the world and showing up quite regularly on other top tables. Can you point me to the data, please?

I don't know how good it is, but I had an absolute blast running this:

Rexler(51)

-HLC

-Push the Limit

-TIE Mk II

-Proton Rockets

Krassis(49)

-Gunner

-Ion Pulse Missiles

-Slave I

-Proton Torpedoes

-Munitions Failsafe

lol

I think Biophysical just needs to put a link to his Regionals report in his signature. The guy did quite well with double Defenders at Regionals.

Just because a squad doesn't show up regularly, doesn't mean it can't be good.

Showing up once doesn't mean that it's consistently good.

I know Biophysical's result with the Defenders, I spend a lot of time reading this forum. It's about the only result that I have read where they have troubled the top tables.

Biophysical can stand by his opinion that it's currently a solid ship, based on his one result.

I will stand by my opinion that it's currently over-costed, based on FFG giving it a fix.

You don't fix things unless they are not working well. I haven't been reading overwhelming community outcry to nerf the Defender because it's too good, so it stands to reason that the fix is to power it up.

In my opinion, FFG were very conservative with the white K-Turn. They slightly over-costed the ship for fear of the K-Turn being too dominant. That hasn't panned out.

I'm excited for the fix and I will be flying the ship. Very happy to see Maarek Stele get some new love!

(Nothing personal, Biophysical, but you did call my opinion nonsense. )

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

Well, I must have missed reading where multiple Defenders have been winning various tournaments across the world and showing up quite regularly on other top tables. Can you point me to the data, please?

Did you ever bother to think that the things that are broken might be the regen, tlt and soontir fels of the world?

Its not like a person cant win a local tournament with vessery in his list.

While this would never be considered competitive by any stretch, some of the most fun I've had in this game is flying this.

Delta Squadron Pilot - 30

Delta Squadron Pilot - 30

Bounty Hunter - 33

Heavy Laser Cannon - 7

Too meta-specific to be a viable tournament choice, I'm afraid

and GravVessery+Firespray+Firespray doesn't fit into 100 points at all.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

Well, I must have missed reading where multiple Defenders have been winning various tournaments across the world and showing up quite regularly on other top tables. Can you point me to the data, please?

I don't think winning tournaments across the world is a requirement to bother flying something. If everyone thought like that we'd never get lists like Aaron Bonner's Danger Zone with the triple K-wings. I stand by my opinion that restricting yourself to that small subset of ships is nonsense.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

Yeah it got a fix because it never appeared in tournaments and wasn't the easy go to option, in the hands of someone skilled HLC defenders are devastating.

As someone who is ecstatic about the new titles and a long time imperial player... Defenders are amazing. They just have a hard time satisfying roles. Vessery will now love the x7 with juke shenanigans, or D with ion cannon and your choice of EPT. Generics with x7 or D will also have a solid place in lists.

Now this isn't to say they can't be used now. Rexler with lone wolf and mkII is a decent little ace. The generics just don't have quite enough to do well in this meta, but after flying my own dual defender lists against fat han and other builds, it works just fine.

Probably the two best looking ships in the game (in my humble opinion)

I had fun with a fully loaded Kath and Rex. Not the most efficient ships but great none the less.

Agent Kallus is magnificent on a Firespray.

Krassis Trelix with your favorite cannon, Engine Upgrade, and Agent Kallus comes in under 50 points, and gets a lot of modify on his attack.

Not great against swarms, but decent against lists with 2-3 ships.

If you choose Mangler cannon, you can fit in Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts, and Backstabber.

Or Kath Scarlet with Veteran Instincts, Agent Kallus, Engine upgrade for 45 points

Omega Leader with Comm Relay, Juke, Hull Upgrade - 29

Zeta Leader with Weapons Guidance, Wired, and Hull upgrade - 26

Or drop the hull upgrade off Zeta leader and upgrade Kath to Boba Fett with Push the Limit, Agent Kallus and Engine Upgrade.

Don't bother flying a Defender until the fix has been released. If wasn't broke (over-costed) then FFG wouldn't bother fixing it.

Nonsense. They are opening up new solid builds for the Defender, but there's a reason HLC builds didn't get any love in Imperial Veterans. Those are already solid builds.

You're right Biophysical, that post is total and utter claptrap, but it must be a particularly amusing one for you to read.

After all, you've had - what - 18 months experience flying the TIE Defender? Both in friendly matches and competitive environments. You know it's dial inside out, you've managed to get some great results with it, and the incoming Imperial Veterans will only help build on the work you've put in and the foundation you've established with the ship. If everyone else waits until the "fix" is released before even putting the ship on the table, you'll have two years of experience on them by the time the "TIE Defender Meta" hits.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to not play with the Scyk until a "fix" is released for that ship as well.