People that say autothrusters are what were needed for interceptors to be viable never played them before, or if they did, poorly. Interceptors have always been worth their points, they just take a certain level of skill and familiarity with their capabilities to get the most out of them.

Depends on meta

PWT meta? AUTOTHRUSTERS

TLT meta? AUTOTHRUSTERS

K-turning Crab-bots? guessed? AUTOTHRUSTERS

you seem to be too overconfident.

Everyone around you "never truly flown anything"

Oh, sensei, teach us how to own enemies using bare hands, forum warrior determination and ignore meta completely

[/sarcasm]

I would currently say no.

We have some strong lists right now, and some really cool effects. The Emp is just silly good, Fel get 3 actions a turn, EU vader can arc dodge without stress. Bombers are cool, TIE swarms are fun and need some practice to fly.

Stress? Sigma with Mara, don't decloak and drive her around close to their stuff stressing. everything.

My regular opponents already hate white Kturns so I cannot wait for imp vets.

I think it is more Paul like rebels rather than rebels are better. A well flown imp list can be evil and certainly is around my kitchen table. We just need the person that brought palpmobile to the semi finals to get just a little more success or someone else to come through.

All that being said, I would not mind a turret and maybe the TIE/SF will give us one..... On second thoughts then I will have to buy stuff just to get turret cards

Stress? Sigma with Mara, don't decloak and drive her around close to their stuff stressing. everything.

Mara sucks scyks, because, like the flechette cannon, she can't stack stress.

and what use is stress when you can't stress freaking PTLers? (they already ARE)

/sarcasm

Edit: in the end, all AT has done is make interceptors more forgiving to play, which is why they picked up popularity. There is nothing wrong with that, but they worked just fine before their implementation.

Obviously, a ship relying on movement-as-action is difficult to fly when you go first. And it is easy to imagine that after a lot of practice you become skilled in predicting where an opponent goes. So flying relatively low PS Interceptors is something that requires and subsequently rewards skill.

The Shuttle is a cheap support ship, not unlike the HWK but with better dial and firepower. However you can't load it up because it has 2 agility and 4 HP. It's a Z-95 with evade action!

I have all 3 factions, so I (hope I) am not prejudiced. I also think the Inquisitor is probably being very dominant in the future to come.

But some decisions are just strange, like the Punisher not having slam, it seem to pale a lot in comparison.

The key word in your sentence above is "cheap". My gut feeling says "I have a bad feeling about this". I'd say, the attack shuttle is just a lot too cheap for what it brings to the table. Saying it is a Z95 is stupid, sorry, it has 3 red dice, evade and can field turrets and crew (better than missiles, illicit). It will probably almost completely remove the rebels Hwk (apart from maybe Roark) from the equation, as it does support stuff far better than the Hwk.

Complaining that it gets expensive and risky when loading above absolute minimum, that problem have MANY ships, esp Imps and Scum small ships.

And Sabine Attack Shuttle is going to be sick! I guess it is stuff like this which gives die-hard imp players, and not only them, mixed feelings.

None of the shuttles abilities suggest it would be a support ship. Just the crew slot doesn't do that either. Rebel HWKs will still be fine in their nieches. Kyle has always been dead, Jan is super specific and Roark is generaly okay to give spammy lists some PS. Zeb and Ezra are cheap and efficient tanks, Hera and Sabine are aces. Nothing suggests support. Zeb can be a cheap Jan Ors carrier, but usually you want her on the ship that benefits the most from her.

I wonder how much Ruthlessness is holding them back on Imperial turrets. TLT + Ruthlessness could be goofy overpowered..

It would make the TLT either overpowered or practically unuseable, depending on the situation. However, it would be funny to see enemy ships hugging yours to avoid the Ruthless TLT

Ruthlessness will be interesting on the TIE/Ds. 3 dice secondary, then 3 dice primary with splash damage? I'll take that thank you.

After reading a bit of this thread and reading a lot of nonsense, let me make one thing very clear.

Imperials are right now in no way inferior to Rebels. They are not even a tiny little bit worse.

Their Aces are most certainly not worse, and you have an equal number that is competitively playable. Vader, Soontir, Jax, Echo, Whisper (well yes they are still there in many tournaments), and for me Omega leader gets more and more up into the top league because he is such a nice endgame piece. For Rebs you have Poe, Horn, Doni, maybe Jakes too, and that's about it.

There are differences of course Imps have mostly PS9 vs PS8 Rebels. And Imps are much harder to pin down for a shot and to hit once you get one. Rebs have a turret and shield regeneration. Imps have Palpy as a supporting mechanic too which is not bad either. Most importantly, i don't see any side that would be noticeably stronger here. What i do see is whiny imp players that think shield regen is OP. Well it's not, Poe has 2 Agility and will crumble when blocked or put under heavy fire, and Corran is the most expensive small ship played if fully kitted out. He will also die when stressed, blocked or just green dice fail him (like imps actually)

Miranda is agi 1, so if she does not outfly you, you should handle her easily, and if she does, well then it's your own fault i guess!

Their Generics are at least as playable as Rebel ones. Rebels have TLT Y-Wings, Z-95 and the occasional A-Wing blocker, Imps have Tie Fighters, FO's (mostly Crackshot), Accuracy corrector Advanceds.

For PWTs you don't see much Han Solo anymore, but there are still Dashes around and Some Kenkirk or Chiraneau. Not many problems for imps to be seen here anymore, they even can go for Palpy on the VT-49.

For the most part, Imps are whining about no turrets and shield regen. I have no idea why actually, because they have their own strengths and if they like the Rebels strengths more, well then go play Rebels i guess, instead of complaining about a pretty well balanced meta.

Sorry for the rant here, but i saw the meta develop from the beginning, and imperials dominated it for a long time. A lot of guys kept telling you that playing Phantoms and Interceptors was the ultimate test of skill too. And now, when the meta is balanced like probably never before, they start complaining about Empire being a weaker faction? Come on!

For my part i fly more Empire than i ever did before, because it is interesting and really competitive too. So if you can't cut it, it's not because other factions ships are better!

Edit: I also think Scum is fine. It needs more competitive options (in number) but the ones it has are pretty solid

If I could have been bothered to write a reply this long... i would have done it, But! You sir hit the nail on the head! +1

Pretty much said what the rest of us were thinking

I wonder how much Ruthlessness is holding them back on Imperial turrets. TLT + Ruthlessness could be goofy overpowered..

It would make the TLT either overpowered or practically unuseable, depending on the situation. However, it would be funny to see enemy ships hugging yours to avoid the Ruthless TLT

Ruthlessness will be interesting on the TIE/Ds. 3 dice secondary, then 3 dice primary with splash damage? I'll take that thank you.

yep. ruthless grav-vessery

muahaahaaha

The Shuttle is a cheap support ship, not unlike the HWK but with better dial and firepower. However you can't load it up because it has 2 agility and 4 HP. It's a Z-95 with evade action!

I have all 3 factions, so I (hope I) am not prejudiced. I also think the Inquisitor is probably being very dominant in the future to come.

But some decisions are just strange, like the Punisher not having slam, it seem to pale a lot in comparison.

The key word in your sentence above is "cheap". My gut feeling says "I have a bad feeling about this". I'd say, the attack shuttle is just a lot too cheap for what it brings to the table. Saying it is a Z95 is stupid, sorry, it has 3 red dice, evade and can field turrets and crew (better than missiles, illicit). It will probably almost completely remove the rebels Hwk (apart from maybe Roark) from the equation, as it does support stuff far better than the Hwk.

Complaining that it gets expensive and risky when loading above absolute minimum, that problem have MANY ships, esp Imps and Scum small ships.

And Sabine Attack Shuttle is going to be sick! I guess it is stuff like this which gives die-hard imp players, and not only them, mixed feelings.

You can put a bunch of stuff on them but they still have the health of a Z-95. I think an attack shuttle could throw in a dynamic element to the 4 TLT list, but you pretty much get exactly one and their PS is pretty low.

Most of the crew cards coming with Ghost are really gimmicky, aside from Kanan.

Y'all seem really salty that the rebels got some interesting stuff.

Y'all seem really salty that the rebels got some interesting stuff.

It's rebel aces, transport, CR-90 all over again.

Y'all seem really salty that the rebels got some interesting stuff.

Aren't there already more than enough rebel toys?

*sheds a manly S&V tear

The ghost crew cards help named b wings the ghost itself. Named b wings are a joke and the ghost is cool but probably not going to burn down the meta any time soon. Other rebel larges are glued to their current crew options, maybe kannan and dash will see play, but even then well played imp aces shouldn't have trouble with dash. Nothing the ghost brings will change regenerating aces or the stresshog. In contrast the new defenders scare the hell out of me as a rebel player. People chronically underrate ion but it's so goddamn annoying to a low agl faction. Now I get shot for full effect and ioned, joy. Oh by the way that's a white one straight so no r2d2, and everyone knows exactly where I'm going, might as well make a huge "please block me sign".

TIE shuttle gives the imperials a dirt cheap ship for crew to ride around in, on top of the already cheap shuttle and while ordnance still isn't brilliant if anyone is going to make it work it will be imperials, rebel ordnance is still very niche. I'll wait to pass judgement on the TAP but it looks pretty good as well.

You know something else, as a rebel player I'm not salty about any of this. Imperials have good options that feel completely different to the options I have and I'm relishing the challenge because I know I've got an equal suite of awesome and different tools to put your expensive, over engineered TIE wunderwaffe in the ground.

People that say autothrusters are what were needed for interceptors to be viable never played them before, or if they did, poorly. Interceptors have always been worth their points, they just take a certain level of skill and familiarity with their capabilities to get the most out of them.

inflated opinion

You truly never have flown defenders. A defender with a x7 title is much more defensive then two TIES. With /D they will have more utility and a better dial than their less offspring as well. There will never be a PS higher but lower cost for a generic. The named bomber is an exception. Glaives with juke and x7 will be deadly for 34 points, or if you wanna do D with ion cannon and some sort of EPT, they will deliver just fine. Onyx and Deltas will definitely see play now as well.

You really need to start giving things a chance. Not everything needs to max out stats to be tournament worthy.

There already exists pilots with lower point costs and higher PS than other named pilots of the same ship. Tomax Bren is not the exception.

It would be nice to see the 2 Defender championship lists some of you keep touting. Brobots will be laughing all the way to the bank.

This entire thread is legitimately hilarious.

The Shuttle is a cheap support ship, not unlike the HWK but with better dial and firepower. However you can't load it up because it has 2 agility and 4 HP. It's a Z-95 with evade action!

I have all 3 factions, so I (hope I) am not prejudiced. I also think the Inquisitor is probably being very dominant in the future to come.

But some decisions are just strange, like the Punisher not having slam, it seem to pale a lot in comparison.

The key word in your sentence above is "cheap". My gut feeling says "I have a bad feeling about this". I'd say, the attack shuttle is just a lot too cheap for what it brings to the table. Saying it is a Z95 is stupid, sorry, it has 3 red dice, evade and can field turrets and crew (better than missiles, illicit). It will probably almost completely remove the rebels Hwk (apart from maybe Roark) from the equation, as it does support stuff far better than the Hwk.

Complaining that it gets expensive and risky when loading above absolute minimum, that problem have MANY ships, esp Imps and Scum small ships.

And Sabine Attack Shuttle is going to be sick! I guess it is stuff like this which gives die-hard imp players, and not only them, mixed feelings.

The Shuttle is cheap, but you can't load it up as an ace. Hera can get PS9, and Sabine's ability is very strong. But it will not make it for the sole reason of TLTs. 4 HP 2 evade, no Autothrusters or other defensive boons. That can be 2 Y-Wings shooting and dead!

There already exists pilots with lower point costs and higher PS than other named pilots of the same ship. Tomax Bren is not the exception.

See this made me curious, so I double checked all the pilots. The only pilots that have higher pilot skill but cost less then a named of the same ship is a royal guard pilot, but funny enough, its still one point more then the next generic. So yes, Tomax IS the exception for named pilots. Or any generic period. There is no generic in the game that is cheaper then the generic below it, so again, you are wrong. We will not be seeing generics that cost less then a counter part, but we might possibly (highly unlikely) to see Count be less then Vessery.

If the only Imperial ships that are worth it to you are Tie Fighters and Tie Interceptors, I can see why you think Imperials are in trouble.

I just wish that they would de-nerf the Phantoms...still burning about that.

You are one of few.

In general the game is much more balanced and there are far fewer absolute situations than most people present on the forums, especially some of the louder members. Unless there's a huge mismatch in skill or one list is significantly worse than the other most games will be close.

Also palp aces is love, palp aces is life.

?

Well, I saw an "often used" ship become a "little used" ship. I don't believe there's only a few folks who are not impressed with the change. Not sure how nerfing an expensive ship fixed a balance problem.

A 44 point ship that could reliably solo down all/most of a list that wasn't turrets/built specifically to hard counter it was a huge problem.

You could fly the two named ones for ~86 points and nothing else and what would happen is that you'd autowin against everything that wasn't fat turret based or some funky list that jumped through hoops to hard counter it. It was ******* stupid.

Now you see them represented about as much as any other ship. People seem to think that a ship no longer being in 50% of squads as a negative and, "not often used." Welcome to most of the balanced ships in the game.

There were also a ton of people that used the omniscience of the old decloak rules as a crutch, just like Super Dash players do now. That's where most of the anger over the nerf comes from, from no skill babies who now actually have to think and predict instead of reacting and omnisciently picking the best maneuver possible.

Thanks for the insult...but...

Having only played the Phantom outside of tournaments, I was only used to seeing it played the one way. I didn't realize that it had become a real problem in competitive circuit. I see now how a ship that appeared in over 50% of lists would make tournament play rather boring for folks who played non-phantom lists. I guess I was just miffed that I went out and bought 2 ships and then the rules changed and folks in my area then claimed the ship to be useless.

I don't know...is the Phantom still a good ship? You tell me.

Rebels have always been the dominant faction just look at any nationals or worlds result except the first year when tie swarm was strong. That is based on pure facts.

However in wave 8 I like the tap better then ghost. But scum have the better two ships and imho they need it because overall they tend to have more broken ships.

I just realized count is PS 5, so most definitely cheaper then Vessery, maybe the same cost as the generics.

Edit: This was suppose to be an edit... Apparently my phone didn't like that idea.

Then run a god **** Sigma with Tactician. That's 27 points and you get hell of a ship with it.

Also the Phantom with Captive is really tried and tested. People will have to shoot it at some time.

VTs with Mara Jade or Tactician are other possibilities.

You have ALL the possibilities, but i guess you just don't wanna hear it and go on whining about Rebels instead.

To be fair, this is kind of the point, at least with regard to stress.

He points out that Imperials don't have cost effective control and you toss out a 27 point 4 health ship that only has control at R2. It has a decent gun, but that's about it. It's rarely even going to last much longer than a TIE (and a TIE will probably outlast it more often). The other options listed are in the 50 point range.

Compare that to the king of control, the TLT stresshog, which is 26 points (1 point cheaper), has better control, is more survivable, and has a comparable gun in the TLT+title. Of course, we don't even have to go that far since a B-Wing tactician is also cheaper. A key to stress control is that you are able to put other ships into the list that can take advantage of it and that's a reason the rebels feel like they have more options in that respect. I think that's going to change when Imperial Veterans arrive.

Imperials, at least right now, are based around the best way to simply burn down enemy ships because their stress/ion control isn't cost effective and they don't have regen. Believe me, I've tried very hard to make an effective control list with Imperials but it just doesn't work. I really like Mangler Kath with Tactician, VI, and EU and have done OK with it, but that's an expensive Kath with no additional damage mitigation, nor does she hit especially hard for the cost, and it doesn't leave a ton of points for much else. She worked in a two ship meta, but not so much now. I also like the idea of the Ion+Tactician Shuttle, but that's a ship with little to no range control.

Imperials do have decent secondary control in ships like Omega Leader, Carnor Jax, and Kagi.

All this isn't to say they can't be competitive. They have some very good ships and a lot of choice in what kind of style they want to pound the enemy (swarm, mini-swarm, deci+ace, or aces), but that's pretty much the focus of their strategy right now. The argument that I should probably play rebels if I want control is valid, except that then I end up playing a ton of mirror matches which I don't find very interesting. It's another reason to be excited about Imperial Veterans since I think some of those options will be more valid for Imperials but will feel very different than what the rebels have.

What about Flechette Torpedoes? They are great for control. Also, Ion Pulse Missile or Ion Torpedo work, as well. There are all the Bombs, too.

There are all the Bombs, too.

wait, what?

O_o

Kidding, right?