Just crushed regen-Poe and a couple of Tactician TLT Ks with Whisper and some TIE Fighters. Even short sticks can hit hard!

It will also make a single Tie Bomber viable again.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to being able to splash a Bomber or two into a list and get some mileage out of them. Especially that Tomax Bren guy (eventually). He's kinda boss.

Totaly ignoring your request not to try: You do realize that Rebels regen is tied to pretty restrictive, predictable manouvers or to an action that can be blocked or worse, stressed away? It does tie into the other game mechanics pretty well. Regen is obnoxious, but it is expensive points and opportunity wise. You can catch an E-Wing or X-Wing that has to green bank all game, ignoring the only straight going Y-Wing. You can also, especially as imperial, block Poe, who pretty much is the only user of R5-P9. Tactician, last time I checked, also is not faction locked, so idealy you block him at range 2 of one of your crewed ships. After that, he will be dead. Or is deliberate blocking cheating, too? Stressdealing?

Imperials can't build effective stress lists right now; that's something ELSE that is essentially Rebel-exclusive (though Scum can make a half-hearted attempt). So no, handing out stress is not a viable counter to Rebel regen for Imperials. (We all know Kath is better on paper than in practice.) The jury's out on whether or not that will remain true once the TIE Shuttle title is released. Presently, all Imperial ships with crew slots are large based, meaning that you cannot run them in enough quantity for Tactician to be effective; even when the title releases, you still won't have TLT to be able to double stress your opponent's ships with only one of your own.

R2-D2 regen is unblockable. All the little schmuck has to do is set his dial. He may be predictable, but we still have to roll dice, and I can't be the only one who has spent six or seven consecutive rounds shooting at Corran Horn to no discernable effect. One game against Corran I emptied Redline's entire arsenal of Cluster Missles and Plasma Torpedoes at him and never got through his shields. Yup, that's fun.

R5-P9 is more restrictive, I'll grant you. The ship can be blocked, the token stolen (Palob) or prevented (Jax) or similar. Still, the fact that you can now regularly see two regenerative ships in a single list is hardly "balanced".

I haven't even talked about Miranda, whose regen is effectively infinite and not dial dependent or blockable.

Noooooo, there is just no f***ing way that Imperial ships could stress you, no way of doing that...

Huh?

If you want to do it, there are cheap ways and there are expensive ways of doing it. Double stress is possible, multiple ship stress is possible, even reactive stress is possible. You just have to commit to it, there is everything you want at your disposal.

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Flechette Cannon (2)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Tactician (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Kath Scarlet (38)

Predator (3)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Tactician (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Captain Jonus (22)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Mara Jade (3)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Shuttle (0)

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Also, Stressing Corran is very helpful as he wants to dump exactly one stress so he can PTL every turn.

Stressing Poe is even better, as he wants to Focus every turn.

All of their greens are very limited actually, and none of them has a green turn, so they become so predictable it's ridiculous!

Blocking them is even better, watch a no action Corran or Poe go down with 2 or 3 naked green dice.

Once you have them on the defensive, they will also not do much in the direction of trying to shoot back probably, they will try to save themselves and wait for a better opportunity.

Miranda's shield regen has no limitations? Last time i checked she had to get a shot on someone. What she will usually do when confronted with more than one firing (since she lacks the mitigation for more shots) arc is SLAM out if she can. Then she can't shoot or regen. If you are close, you can try to block her, or bump in yourself. Unless she can fire, she can't regen.

And at 1 die, even wth regen she won't last long if you manage to keep her in arc with more than one ship.

If you want to do it, there are cheap ways and there are expensive ways of doing it. Double stress is possible,multiple ship stress is possible, even reactive stress is possible. You just have to commit to it, tehre is everything you want at your disposal.

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

Flechette Cannon (2)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

Not released yet. Only spoiled a few weeks ago.

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Relies on your opponent shooting at what is likely to be your hardest to kill target.

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Tactician (2)

Gunner (5)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Good luck getting into - and staying at - Range 2 reliably with a large base ship. Also costs significantly more than the Rebel equivalent of Blue + Tactician, and is far harder to maneuver.

Kath Scarlet (38)

Predator (3)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Tactician (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

As previously mentioned, looks great on paper, falls apart in practice (yes, I have tried it). Spends 50+ points for a ship that might potentially double stress one opponent's ship. Rebel equivalent of this costs half as much (BTL Y-wing with R3-A2) and has a range band of 2-3 to double stress rather than being confined to range 2.

Not released yet. Only spoiled a few weeks ago.

As I said, Imperials cannot build effective stress lists RIGHT NOW. The possibility exists that the Defender title and/or Bomber title will change that, but those cards are an undetermined number of months away. The other examples are too unwieldy (shuttle) or too expensive (Kath) or reliant on your opponent to make the choice to accept the stress on a target of his choosing (Phantom).

Well, you can always take debris fields and a list composed of dodgy dodgers.

Also juke should help quite a bit. If only there were two copies per blister.

The short answer is no but the long answer is yes.

Yah... that's how I've felt for a long time too.

Rebels get sheilds, HP, regen, turrets...

Scum get messy, mean, debuffs, and both other factions stuff

Empire gets...better dials? More of the same options? Tech? Lots of green dice?

I liked it when they were getting tech but that's not happening anymore. Cloak? No longer meta defining; bombs? Rebels and Scum do it better. White Kturns on Dials? S-loops and stops are just as good as white kturns and the stop on the YV dial is equal if not better...and now add the Tallon Roll...seriously?; Shields>only hull + green dice; PWT? only if you get 0 agility too.

Part of the Empires problem is that they have so many truly dud pilots (Fel's Wrath, Lorrir, Kir, All 3 named shuttle pilots, Mr. Steele, ALL BOMBERS before veterans) even if the ship has merits there were very few reasons to take more than 1 of any of the named pilots and firespray, bomber, and defender generics are all pretty inefficient options. Both Imperial boost packs have targeted ships that sorely needed help. Aces didn't give anyone but Soontir and Canor a chance and it wasn't until autothursters hit that they really had a chance . Hopefully Vetran's do better with the defender and the bomber...now if I could just get a shuttle pilot other than the OGP and ANY decent imperial firespray pilot. Then we'd be golden!

But I'm still just another "whining" Imperial player. Maybe some people are confusing whining and winning? I win too often to be a whiner but pretty much every time I play (victory or defeat) I'm a winner!

I feel worse for scum. I really like scum and want to play them more often, but just can't break even with them.

Rear Admiral Chiraneau, Mara Jade, Rebel Captive, Tactician.

how do you go from imp veterans to making this thread in like. a week?

i dont get it. what is wrong with imperial only people on this board what makes them so angry

Before the Poe lists took over we had fat turrets (falcon and outrider) dominance for like 2 years. It was a long while before tie swarm was feared. There was like 3 months where the phantom gave the fat turrets a run for thier money however that was quickly nerfed.

Who's angry? All we are saying is we would like a little parity with the other factions.

Can someone explain why imps having a single small ship able to mount a turret would be such a bad thing when rebels have seven ships that can shoot out of arc, how's that an unreasonable request?

The difficulty with Imperial bombers has always been that to make them deadly, you have to make them so expensive that they become the most tempting target on the field. 6 HP over 2 Green dice is good- but you will have a hard time keeping it alive at 40 points!

So check this out:

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Extra Munitions (2)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Homing Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 27

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

You can put that next to a _lot_ of ships that your opponent would much rather shoot at. Meanwhile, your bomber trundles on up to range 2/3 and... has some nasty options.

With the Imperials having this archetype opened up, there's suddenly a lot of newly viable designs on the table. At least, I hope that's how it's going to work...

This is one of the strangest phenomenons of the x wing community. It often seems like there's two camps, people who play x wing (all the factions, maybe favouring one over another slightly), and people who play imperials. I like rebels, mostly play them but I dabble in sum and imps as well, whereas people who primarily play imps never touch the other factions it seems.

The Emperor does not tolerate flimsy loyalties.

If the new Defenders have points cost that completely ignores the overpriced cost of the old ships there might be a chance of seeing more than the odd Vessery showing up in tournament lists.

I'm talking 31 point Glaives and 32 point Maarek.

If a high PS Defender with Tractor Beam can get a shot off on one ship, the couple other ships that have that enemy in arc can capitalize. But this won't be viable if our only options to do this are going to be 38+ points to field.

I feel like a Glaive with Outmaneuver and Ion Cannon could put a serious crimple in enemy ace strategies, but is it worth 40 points for something as survivable as 2 TIE Fighters?

Part of the Empires problem is that they have so many truly dud pilots (Fel's Wrath, Lorrir, Kir, All 3 named shuttle pilots, Mr. Steele, ALL BOMBERS before veterans) even if the ship has merits there were very few reasons to take more than 1 of any of the named pilots and firespray, bomber, and defender generics are all pretty inefficient options.

I hadn't thought about this, but it's completely true.

how do you go from imp veterans to making this thread in like. a week?

i dont get it. what is wrong with imperial only people on this board what makes them so angry

Because it's 80% garbage. It doesn't fix Rhymer, it doesn't fix Rexlar, it doesn't help Maarek. It's a real kick in the teeth after the real OP tool box that is the ghost expansion. The cannon title is coolish on Vessery, but the cheapo one doesn't make them cheap enough and makes them more predictable.

Guidance chips are a cool ordnance fix, guess what they DON'T come in.

i was a purely Imperial player, i thought scum was a bad concept, then i changed my mind because i was tired of always relying on greens so i bought Scum and i have had a blast with them, at least i have shields for when the dice fail.

So dammit FFG stop being Rebel fanboys and give the Imps a good **** ship, one you wont nerf 5 months later.

how do you go from imp veterans to making this thread in like. a week?

i dont get it. what is wrong with imperial only people on this board what makes them so angry

Because it's 80% garbage. It doesn't fix Rhymer, it doesn't fix Rexlar, it doesn't help Maarek. It's a real kick in the teeth after the real OP tool box that is the ghost expansion. The cannon title is coolish on Vessery, but the cheapo one doesn't make them cheap enough and makes them more predictable.

Guidance chips are a cool ordnance fix, guess what they DON'T come in.

you had a bunch of posts excited about the ship that the chips come in so i dont think this is reasonable. also every faction has pilots that just get left behind, to pretend its a uniquely imperial problem is stupid. scum included, and theyre young.

the unique nature of pilot abilities guarantees that there will always be some pilots better than others especially as you add more upgrades and enemy pilots that change the environment in which the pilot is used. thats the price you pay for the flavor they add to the game, and erring on the side of caution is much better than letting things wind up looking like wizkids made them.

edit: did you honestly expect a title that reduced their point costs by like 4 each and let them equip another title or something? wasting pilot card space with a reprint instead of new and exciting things?

for the record im not a one faction player, i player rebel and imperial and im really excited for imperial aces and chimps.

how do you go from imp veterans to making this thread in like. a week?

i dont get it. what is wrong with imperial only people on this board what makes them so angry

Because it's 80% garbage. It doesn't fix Rhymer, it doesn't fix Rexlar, it doesn't help Maarek. It's a real kick in the teeth after the real OP tool box that is the ghost expansion. The cannon title is coolish on Vessery, but the cheapo one doesn't make them cheap enough and makes them more predictable.

Guidance chips are a cool ordnance fix, guess what they DON'T come in.

I think Rexlar at PS 8 with Pred and Ion with D title will be a staple of my lists. I actually think he's good now with an HLC:)

You know what I realized?

My Imperial ships are sitting there neglected because our scene has taken to Imps like ants to a picnic! I don't want to play the same ships as everyone else, and so my wife's Rebel fleet grows larger. Whenever some poor Rebel player happens along I pounce on them with my Ties, and they give me this hurt, betrayed look.

Before the Poe lists took over we had fat turrets (falcon and outrider) dominance for like 2 years. It was a long while before tie swarm was feared. There was like 3 months where the phantom gave the fat turrets a run for thier money however that was quickly nerfed.

Fat Turrets came to be BECAUSE of Phantoms. No one thought twice about flying a big, heavy built Falcon when it first came out or even much after because it was really easily killed by a large amount of ships. Then, when Phantoms came out and showed people that you couldn't fly 4 Bs or a Tie Swarm or Inceptors because this ship would just wait for you to move, and then choose where to go, making it impossible to keep it in arc by fair play. Well, they turned to Turrets! So many turrets.

Pre-nerfed Phantoms caused the worst meta diversity the game has seen in a long, long time and the winning list at worlds that year was a hard Phantom Counter.

It broke the game and made it no longer about guessing your opponent and outflying them, it made it into a game of pushing your PS high and waiting for your opponent to move so you could react instead of guessing like you should in this game. Small reactions like Boost/BR are fair because they cost something, Decloak costs nothing.

The Empire is a hard faction to fly. It rewards smart, tricky moves and choosing the smart move instead of rushing face first into your opponent. It leaves small room for mistakes, while Regen lists allow you to mess up a bit but still be in the game. (hopefully) Imperials will be a different mental game to play, they always have and always will, doesn't make them worse or weaker or less of a faction.

Ask yourself this:

Do you like to rush head first into combat?

Do you choose moves that keep you in enemy arcs in order to ensure you have a shot?

Do you often find yourself without an action (Focus or evade) and hope your dice will not fail?

Do you find it easier to work with less ships on the table?

Do you get demoralized when you lose a ship?

Do you fly in a way that your opponent seems to know where you're going and afraid to take a risky move in order to outmaneuver him?

If you answered yes to more than one of these, you probably shouldn't be playing imperials. It's a bummer if you like the ascetic and the lore, but the faction in the game plays a specific way and role and if you can't find a good grove with that role, then you might find yourself in better spirits behind a squad of Yv-666s or Z-95s.

Part of the Empires problem is that they have so many truly dud pilots (Fel's Wrath, Lorrir, Kir, All 3 named shuttle pilots, Mr. Steele, ALL BOMBERS before veterans) even if the ship has merits there were very few reasons to take more than 1 of any of the named pilots and firespray, bomber, and defender generics are all pretty inefficient options.

I hadn't thought about this, but it's completely true.

Any X-Wing pilot except for Biggs (changes with IA, but for most of the world that isn't out), any named B-WIng, any generic E-Wing, all T-70s except for Poe, named rebel HWKs clearly have the worse abilities, the generic Falcon is a joke.

Any generic Star Viper, ALL SCYCKS, the generic HWK.

While it is true that the empire has a few duds and Fels Wrath undebateably is the worst pilot in the game, all factions have things on the level of TIE Bombers, ATC Stele or generic Firesprays or Defenders. It is not like the empire is of worse. That the TIE Bomber generic is innefficient is by the way completely wrong, it is only a hair weaker than the TIE Fighter! Granted, it does have a weaker dial which seals the deal for most people, but a high hull Bomber swarm can be a thing.

If you want to do it, there are cheap ways and there are expensive ways of doing it. Double stress is possible,multiple ship stress is possible, even reactive stress is possible. You just have to commit to it, tehre is everything you want at your disposal.

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)Flechette Cannon (2)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE/D (0)

Not released yet. Only spoiled a few weeks ago.

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)Fire-Control System (2)Rebel Captive (3)Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Relies on your opponent shooting at what is likely to be your hardest to kill target.

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Tactician (2)Gunner (5)Engine Upgrade (4)

Good luck getting into - and staying at - Range 2 reliably with a large base ship. Also costs significantly more than the Rebel equivalent of Blue + Tactician, and is far harder to maneuver.

Kath Scarlet (38)

Predator (3)"Mangler" Cannon (4)Tactician (2)Engine Upgrade (4)

As previously mentioned, looks great on paper, falls apart in practice (yes, I have tried it). Spends 50+ points for a ship that might potentially double stress one opponent's ship. Rebel equivalent of this costs half as much (BTL Y-wing with R3-A2) and has a range band of 2-3 to double stress rather than being confined to range 2.

Captain Jonus (22)

Veteran Instincts (1)Mara Jade (3)Intelligence Agent (1)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)TIE Shuttle (0)

Not released yet. Only spoiled a few weeks ago.

As I said, Imperials cannot build effective stress lists RIGHT NOW. The possibility exists that the Defender title and/or Bomber title will change that, but those cards are an undetermined number of months away. The other examples are too unwieldy (shuttle) or too expensive (Kath) or reliant on your opponent to make the choice to accept the stress on a target of his choosing (Phantom).

Also the Phantom with Captive is really tried and tested. People will have to shoot it at some time.

VTs with Mara Jade or Tactician are other possibilities.

You have ALL the possibilities, but i guess you just don't wanna hear it and go on whining about Rebels instead.

how do you go from imp veterans to making this thread in like. a week?

i dont get it. what is wrong with imperial only people on this board what makes them so angry

Because it's 80% garbage. It doesn't fix Rhymer, it doesn't fix Rexlar, it doesn't help Maarek. It's a real kick in the teeth after the real OP tool box that is the ghost expansion. The cannon title is coolish on Vessery, but the cheapo one doesn't make them cheap enough and makes them more predictable.

Guidance chips are a cool ordnance fix, guess what they DON'T come in.

Also the Ghost will probably not be a competitive ship. There are hardly any large ships left in the competitive meta, except shuttle, Dash IGs and maybe VT-49. All of them are pretty different in concept to the Ghost. If there was any competitive Ghost build it would be probably Hera flown as an arc-dodger. But she is PS7 and cant take VI so she will not be that scary to aces.

The Shuttle is a cheap support ship, not unlike the HWK but with better dial and firepower. However you can't load it up because it has 2 agility and 4 HP. It's a Z-95 with evade action! All the Rebels get next wave is 2-3 semi decent crew, and Kanan Jarrus who is a genuine option for some ships. The Ghost is merely a fluff release, it does not give Any answer to TLTs or other questions on how to handle the meta!

Unlike that Empire gets yet another Autothruster capable ship with 3 agility and built in action economy. Basically something the meta screams right now!!! Not enough firepower? But not the Inquisitor who will sure as hell see competitive play.

i was a purely Imperial player, i thought scum was a bad concept, then i changed my mind because i was tired of always relying on greens so i bought Scum and i have had a blast with them, at least i have shields for when the dice fail.

So dammit FFG stop being Rebel fanboys and give the Imps a good **** ship, one you wont nerf 5 months later.

People that say autothrusters are what were needed for interceptors to be viable never played them before, or if they did, poorly. Interceptors have always been worth their points, they just take a certain level of skill and familiarity with their capabilities to get the most out of them.

inflated opinion

You truly never have flown defenders. A defender with a x7 title is much more defensive then two TIES. With /D they will have more utility and a better dial than their less offspring as well. There will never be a PS higher but lower cost for a generic. The named bomber is an exception. Glaives with juke and x7 will be deadly for 34 points, or if you wanna do D with ion cannon and some sort of EPT, they will deliver just fine. Onyx and Deltas will definitely see play now as well.

You really need to start giving things a chance. Not everything needs to max out stats to be tournament worthy.