What about Flechette Torpedoes? They are great for control. Also, Ion Pulse Missile or Ion Torpedo work, as well. There are all the Bombs, too.

Sure, (and I've tried them out as well and still will throw IPM in a list), but all of them lack consistency (besides the missiles just needing a TL). They're decent one-off options, but they're not a viable reliable option.

I just wish that they would de-nerf the Phantoms...still burning about that.

You are one of few.

In general the game is much more balanced and there are far fewer absolute situations than most people present on the forums, especially some of the louder members. Unless there's a huge mismatch in skill or one list is significantly worse than the other most games will be close.

Also palp aces is love, palp aces is life.

?

Well, I saw an "often used" ship become a "little used" ship. I don't believe there's only a few folks who are not impressed with the change. Not sure how nerfing an expensive ship fixed a balance problem.

A 44 point ship that could reliably solo down all/most of a list that wasn't turrets/built specifically to hard counter it was a huge problem.

You could fly the two named ones for ~86 points and nothing else and what would happen is that you'd autowin against everything that wasn't fat turret based or some funky list that jumped through hoops to hard counter it. It was ******* stupid.

Now you see them represented about as much as any other ship. People seem to think that a ship no longer being in 50% of squads as a negative and, "not often used." Welcome to most of the balanced ships in the game.

There were also a ton of people that used the omniscience of the old decloak rules as a crutch, just like Super Dash players do now. That's where most of the anger over the nerf comes from, from no skill babies who now actually have to think and predict instead of reacting and omnisciently picking the best maneuver possible.

Thanks for the insult...but...

Having only played the Phantom outside of tournaments, I was only used to seeing it played the one way. I didn't realize that it had become a real problem in competitive circuit. I see now how a ship that appeared in over 50% of lists would make tournament play rather boring for folks who played non-phantom lists. I guess I was just miffed that I went out and bought 2 ships and then the rules changed and folks in my area then claimed the ship to be useless.

I don't know...is the Phantom still a good ship? You tell me.

Yes, it is. If the declaok change was a nerf, it was a minor one. It does take away the unrivaled flexible mobility, but it gives you other things: It makes you harder to block, even more than it did with the old rules. It makes you almost impossible to reliably hit with mine type bombs (which used to be a good Phantom counter). It allows you to do new weird tricks, like blocking a low PS ship to then continue to move and shoot them. Best thing is, if you are really good at predicting your opponent nothing has changed in the avoiding arcs department. Whisper still has her brutal action economy and Echo still is unpredictable.

As a mostly Imp player who recently started playing Scum, I can say the only thing that the Imperials lack is a strong fighter with a turret (a direct competitor to the Y-wings used by the Rebs and Scum).

Now that we have The Force Awakens in X-Wing, I'm hoping that the Imps get the two-seat First Order Special Forces Tie Fighter. That gives FF the ability to FINALLY give the Imps a fighter that can take a turret and maybe a crew. Take the current FO Tie from the game, add one hull point and one shield point, take away one agility and remove the evade action (but keep barrel roll since it's a Tie), add a turret upgrade and a crew upgrade.

Suddenly the Imps get a dangerous counter to the Y-Wings ... but it will have to be more expensive than the Y-wings (probably starting at 20-22 for the first unnamed pilot and 28-30 for the top pilot) given the cost of the current FO Tie.

There are all the Bombs, too.

wait, what?

O_o

Kidding, right?

Seismic Charges are two points. If you replicate Homing Missiles, you get a free set. That is a huge area you denie to your opponent, making him fly awkwardly. With less PWTs around, that is valuable.

There are all the Bombs, too.

wait, what?

O_o

Kidding, right?

Seismic Charges are two points. If you replicate Homing Missiles, you get a free set. That is a huge area you denie to your opponent, making him fly awkwardly. With less PWTs around, that is valuable.

Rebel-regeners don't give a ****

Crab bros don't give a ****

imp aces see teh mine and don't give a **** (BR\boost all the way)

TLT-Y don't give a ****

PWTs don't give a ****

K-wings don't give a ****.

I wonder, what do I win with that awkwardly-placed 2 points?

A chance that enemy ace won't fire at me one turn?

Т_Т

I'm 100% certain all those care about taking damage. That turn they had to run from those bombs or eat them? Yeah that's the turn your squad had shots against a less then prepared ship.

Hey Shaner, Phantoms are still great ships. Whisper is still a power pilot that can do it all. The nerf introduced some very nice options and skill into playing phantoms, that's all. Phantoms were the forbidden fruit when I started playing - they were clearly OP and were looked down upon by opponents as something akin to cheating. When the nerf hit I felt relieved, as I wanted to play them so much, and now felt guilt-free in my appreciation of them. They're classy as hell and hit like a bag of ball bearings.

Having said that, If you're looking at ways to play them in the current climate, I'd recommend a few options:

1) Intel agent. It can approximate the effect that a phantom previously had: worse, in that it only works on one ship and has a range restriction, better, in that you can peek at ships that have higher ps than you - a common problem with the rise of the new rebel sweetheart, r2-d2 vi poe. ... The price you pay is that lovely crew slot. How bad do you need that old phantom ability, is the question?

2) Recon specialist is very important for Echo, imo. She needs that spare focus because with her lower ps, she will be catching som decloaked shots.

3) if you have a tlt-heavy playing circle, then Whisper really needs sensor jammer. If I was taking her out in a tournament (and I think I will be soon...) I'd want this on her. The alternative is seeing her chewed up by a bunch of tlt thugs. Girl's practically royalty in my books, so I can't have that!

Don't give up on them - they're even more rewarding to win with now that they demand more skill. Also, tlts and poe have everyone worrying about them, so nobody's planning for whisper any more...

Here's my list; the philosophy is high damage and winning the final duel. I'd be happy taking any of these three ships into the endgame....

“Whisper” (42) TIE Phantom (32), Intelligence Agent (1), Sensor Jammer (4), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

“Omega Leader” (26) TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Darth Vader (32) TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

As a dyed-in-the-wool Buckethead I can honestly say that I don't want or need turrets so long as I'm given choices in playing around them. And I feel there's more than one way to skin a turret in this game. I'm just irritated they diluted the other unofficially faction specific stuff that Imperials had. I'm talkin' about bombs here. But really they should have made all the really cool and unique bomb-related options for Scum only and made sure the Rebels couldn't make use of them. Or maybe they did do that, I dunno, all that stuff released during my hiatus from the game.

I'm 100% certain all those care about taking damage. That turn they had to run from those bombs or eat them? Yeah that's the turn your squad had shots against a less then prepared ship.

And you're 100% right Hujoe. Every ship in the game hates taking guaranteed damage, and Warpman is making it sound as though those ship's dials won't already have been decided and set when the bomb is dropped (and if it's dropped right on top of them, they aren't avoiding it in any way shape or form).

Unfortunately, arguing with Warpman about things he doesn't see the value of is roughly equivalent to throwing marshmallows into a black hole.

Unfortunately, arguing with Warpman about things he doesn't see the value of is roughly equivalent to throwing marshmallows into a black hole.

I feel like this is true for several of our more vocal and persistent members...

I dunno Warpman is pretty handy for that though too. If you can bait him onto your side, the argument just runs itself! See T-65 Fix thread.

Lol, seriously though. Bombs ARE crap. Until they're used properly. Then it's a real face puncher.

To be fair, this is kind of the point, at least with regard to stress.

He points out that Imperials don't have cost effective control and you toss out a 27 point 4 health ship that only has control at R2. It has a decent gun, but that's about it. It's rarely even going to last much longer than a TIE (and a TIE will probably outlast it more often). The other options listed are in the 50 point range.

Yes, yes.... to AlexW you listen.

All this isn't to say they can't be competitive. They have some very good ships and a lot of choice in what kind of style they want to pound the enemy (swarm, mini-swarm, deci+ace, or aces), but that's pretty much the focus of their strategy right now. The argument that I should probably play rebels if I want control is valid, except that then I end up playing a ton of mirror matches which I don't find very interesting. It's another reason to be excited about Imperial Veterans since I think some of those options will be more valid for Imperials but will feel very different than what the rebels have.

I agree with all of this.

Imperial lists can be competitive (I said as much in my first post). They have piss-poor options for control lists, but a variety of other options. That doesn't mean they have equal footing with Rebels or Scum, which is my main frustration.

I am cautiously hopeful for the TIE/D title because Imperials will have access to some control to go along with consistent damage output.

There are all the Bombs, too.

wait, what?

O_o

Kidding, right?

Seismic Charges are two points. If you replicate Homing Missiles, you get a free set. That is a huge area you denie to your opponent, making him fly awkwardly. With less PWTs around, that is valuable.

Rebel-regeners don't give a ****

Crab bros don't give a ****

imp aces see teh mine and don't give a **** (BR\boost all the way)

TLT-Y don't give a ****

PWTs don't give a ****

K-wings don't give a ****.

I wonder, what do I win with that awkwardly-placed 2 points?

A chance that enemy ace won't fire at me one turn?

Т_Т

First off....Conner nets, Prox Mines, and Cluster Mines are area controllers.

Next, Proton Bombs are also intimidating and can cause people to not get behind you. That is a form of control.

If you think all those types of ships don't care about Seismic Charges, you are wrong. I've managed to drop 3-4 bombs and have a number of ships land on top of them. It's usually followed by a K-turn and firing my missiles (from last turn's TL). I've managed to kill a Super Dash as well as a shield regen Poe in a single round. Here's a pic of the latest:

as an additional point to seismics, helps to use obstacles and stress (and blocking chasing aces with your butt)

When Paul Heaver wins with an Imperial List in 2016 I will officially feel like the Imps are on the same ground as the Rebels.

When Paul Heaver wins with an Imperial List in 2016 I will officially feel like the Imps are on the same ground as the Rebels.

Ever see him try to fly imps on vassal? The Emperor wanted to toss him into a generator.

When Paul Heaver wins with an Imperial List in 2016 I will officially feel like the Imps are on the same ground as the Rebels.

Ever see him try to fly imps on vassal? The Emperor wanted to toss him into a generator.

Yeah, he flew that black crack swarm like ****. Misdeployed howlrunner and wrecked his own formation. Cost him the game.

Honestly it seems reasonable to expect someone who has 3peated worlds with a single faction to maybe just really like that faction. Many people get bored with the same list but heaver might just really really like rebels.

When Paul Heaver wins with an Imperial List in 2016

The fact that Paul Heaver fly's Rebels doesn't mean jack, other than the fact that he simply prefers that faction. Expecting someone to win with a faction they don't care for, or perhaps doesn't fit their play style is silly at best.

Or he's truly a powerplayer and plays to the meta.

Or he's truly a powerplayer and plays to the meta.

Or he's secretly Luke Skywalker and is actually afraid of imperial ships.

Drawing conclusions from speculation always supports whatever argument you want, it's great!

I'm not trying to tear Heaver down, I'm just saying the game is more forgiving to the Rebels. Stout shields, high power primary weapons, turrets on everything, there's something to cover any mistake a player could make.

While I'm at it, I'm pretty sure it's super hard to shoot a fighter with a turret. Bombers got the stuffing beat out of them without fighter escorts in WW II. Then again they didn't have cool digital vector graphic sights so whatever.

Seriously, can this thread die now? All the whining is embarrassing (and I'm saying this as someone who took a Defender to 5 store championships last year).

Seriously, can this thread die now? All the whining is embarrassing (and I'm saying this as someone who took a Defender to 5 store championships last year).

I believe the right question is: Why hasn't this thread died yet? It shouldn't have to come to this to stop comlaining.

Stout shields

Defenders have more shield and more HP's then many Rebel ships do. Sure the green dice aren't as forgiving as shields, but arc dodging is way better than shields.

high power primary weapons

You mean like the Phantoms 4 attack dice? How about the VT-49's 3 dice PWT? Or the Interceptors 3 dice attacks, or the Defenders cannon slot...

turrets on everything

You mean like the super fast and nimble Y-Wing, or perhaps the even more nimble K-Wing?