The biggest problem I see with meta diversity is the complete lack of Scum outside Y-Wings and Brobots. Hopefully the new Scum ships and crew coming in Wave 8 will help fix that.

I don't really care about factions anymore. After wave 5 turned the game into nothing but turrets, I don't really consider a Phantom Deci player beating a Corran Falcon player to be an instance of "Wow, a lot of imperial lists in the top 8." It's all variations on the same theme. If the meta was still swarm dominated none of you would really see the difference between 8 Z's and 8 TIEs and 7 M3-A's. I don't really see the difference between rebel Acewing/Turretwing list and imperial acewing/Turretwing list. All the same busted BS.

Each faction has their share of OP Acewing ships and Fat Turretwing ships. I suppose the Rebels have the advantage here because they have more of these types of ships and access to regen, but the smaller amount of Imperial Acewing builds are just as good as Rebel ones.

Besides for Dual IG's, Scum has none of this type of stuff and therefore they don't typically place as high/as often.

ParaGoombaSlayer's ideal meta: No high PS aces, no turrets, no fat ships, no regeneration, no arc-dodging, no extra actions, no dice manipulation, no stress application, no swarms, no good ships, T-65 only, Final Destination.

You know what they say...."Defense wins championships" The rebels have the best defensive ships in the game while providing shield regeneration. Paul basically took a list to World's that would minimize bad luck and no faction does that better then Rebels. Maybe we should give Paul a challenge to win World's with a list other then Rebels? He has nothing left to prove other then that.

The biggest problem I see with meta diversity is the complete lack of Scum outside Y-Wings and Brobots. Hopefully the new Scum ships and crew coming in Wave 8 will help fix that.

I don't really care about factions anymore. After wave 5 turned the game into nothing but turrets, I don't really consider a Phantom Deci player beating a Corran Falcon player to be an instance of "Wow, a lot of imperial lists in the top 8." It's all variations on the same theme. If the meta was still swarm dominated none of you would really see the difference between 8 Z's and 8 TIEs and 7 M3-A's. I don't really see the difference between rebel Acewing/Turretwing list and imperial acewing/Turretwing list. All the same busted BS.

Each faction has their share of OP Acewing ships and Fat Turretwing ships. I suppose the Rebels have the advantage here because they have more of these types of ships and access to regen, but the smaller amount of Imperial Acewing builds are just as good as Rebel ones.

Besides for Dual IG's, Scum has none of this type of stuff and therefore they don't typically place as high/as often.

ParaGoombaSlayer's ideal meta: No high PS aces, no turrets, no fat ships, no regeneration, no arc-dodging, no extra actions, no dice manipulation, no stress application, no swarms, no good ships, T-65 only, Final Destination.

I'd say Crackswarm only, but what do I know...

The Empire seriously just got a pilot that can move every time he's attacked in the attack phase, and another that can attack with 3 Die at any range. Even range 3. And reduce their agility. At range 3.

No.

They're about to do very, very well.

Just remember, you can only do a particular action once per turn.

This.

We just got a pilot who can maybe move once, after he's been attacked and suffered any damage. Not super impressive.

In the current crackshot heavy environment probably won't even survive to make use of the ability.

The Empire seriously just got a pilot that can move every time he's attacked in the attack phase, and another that can attack with 3 Die at any range. Even range 3. And reduce their agility. At range 3.

No.

They're about to do very, very well.

Just remember, you can only do a particular action once per turn.

This.

We just got a pilot who can maybe move once, after he's been attacked and suffered any damage. Not super impressive.

In the current crackshot heavy environment probably won't even survive to make use of the ability.

On the other hand, it's brutal against TLTs and discourages them even further from shooting him.

Omega Leader can maybe 1v1 anything. Anything at all.

So, I think Imps are looking alright.

S&V just sit here with our Scyks Starvipers and YVs and try to understand why is the Empire so depressed

Scum even got a cloak!

playing a phantom build without AdvCloakingDevice upgrade

It's like we don't even exist.

*sheds a tear

Top 4 was two rebels one scum and one imp. Nathan and Paul are also both well documented as extremely talented players, that mayyyy have played into it.

I wonder how different things would be on these forums if Paul Heaver preferred Imperials? I think he'd still be world champion, but we'd be claiming different lists are over powered.

The biggest problem I see with meta diversity is the complete lack of Scum outside Y-Wings and Brobots. Hopefully the new Scum ships and crew coming in Wave 8 will help fix that.

I don't really care about factions anymore. After wave 5 turned the game into nothing but turrets, I don't really consider a Phantom Deci player beating a Corran Falcon player to be an instance of "Wow, a lot of imperial lists in the top 8." It's all variations on the same theme. If the meta was still swarm dominated none of you would really see the difference between 8 Z's and 8 TIEs and 7 M3-A's. I don't really see the difference between rebel Acewing/Turretwing list and imperial acewing/Turretwing list. All the same busted BS.

Each faction has their share of OP Acewing ships and Fat Turretwing ships. I suppose the Rebels have the advantage here because they have more of these types of ships and access to regen, but the smaller amount of Imperial Acewing builds are just as good as Rebel ones.

Besides for Dual IG's, Scum has none of this type of stuff and therefore they don't typically place as high/as often.

ParaGoombaSlayer's ideal meta: No high PS aces, no turrets, no fat ships, no regeneration, no arc-dodging, no extra actions, no dice manipulation, no stress application, no swarms, no good ships, T-65 only, Final Destination.

I would like a return to a wave 3esque meta, yes. For the same reason why I prefer Final Destination. I want the game to be a test of skill and not just have an arwing or tornado or other random BS sweep someone away. I miss facing lists like 2 rookie pilots, 2 b wings with HLC and losing because I was outplayed and not because my opponent had Super Dash and I happened to be flying a list that had no way to deal with Super Dash. Some of you guys want this to be a hard counter list building based game where a ship autowins in one matchup but autoloses in another so it's balanced dur hur. Rock Paper Scissors is not a good game.

Much of the stuff you listed I don't mind on certain ships. Patrol leader Decis, ptl a wings, y wing turrets, regen astros on t65's. I actually like weaponized stress and swarms. It's when cards like predator get put on RAC or FCS gets put on corran or other super combos that I get pissed.

So I like Crackshot because it gives the swarm enough of that broken OP BS to be competetive again.

Top 4 was two rebels one scum and one imp. Nathan and Paul are also both well documented as extremely talented players, that mayyyy have played into it.

I wonder how different things would be on these forums if Paul Heaver preferred Imperials? I think he'd still be world champion, but we'd be claiming different lists are over powered.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people have this wierd affinity for imperials where they personally associate with them more so than any other faction. I've got a closet full of rebel t shirts but I played mostly imperials until discovered rebel control and had a lot of sucess with that.

I'm not knocking it, it's fun to get into the rivalries but it definitely contributes to these situations.

I feel like making a thread about how unfair it is that experienced players have an unfair advantage over me because, even though i have access to all the ships in existence, I haven't yet gained the gameplay skill necessary to beat everyone else. and it's all their fault

Top 4 was two rebels one scum and one imp. Nathan and Paul are also both well documented as extremely talented players, that mayyyy have played into it.

I wonder how different things would be on these forums if Paul Heaver preferred Imperials? I think he'd still be world champion, but we'd be claiming different lists are over powered.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people have this wierd affinity for imperials where they personally associate with them more so than any other faction. I've got a closet full of rebel t shirts but I played mostly imperials until discovered rebel control and had a lot of sucess with that.

I'm not knocking it, it's fun to get into the rivalries but it definitely contributes to these situations.

I only have an affinity with Imperials because they're ships look cool and they actually clean them.

That and when I started playing we (my brother and I) had the option to choose one faction (we weren't sure about the game at the time) so i chose Empire cause they had the Interceptor, which I don't fly anymore XD

It just sucks that rebels get the most variety

It should be a scum feature

"Build whatever your loonatic desires dictate, fly that heap of upgrades, stay frosty"

as instead we have Crab Brobots with 2 distinctive builds, BOTH completely revolving around the choice of sensor slot.

and a ton of ships that are unmoddable compared to filthy rebel scum and\or sick suck Scyk

Sure that does sound like the thematic of Scum but as I said in other posts and sort of inferred in my previous post Scum as a faction has yet to be fully fleshed out as to the point of the other two factions. Imperials and Rebels selection of ship types has been fully fleshed out to the point where they are doubling back onto each other with the Imperials getting a ship that has the same stats (firepower, agility, hull, shields) as the rebel's A-wing and the Resistance and TIE/FO are like improved versions of the old classic ships.

The good news is that scum has found their niche in the meta and relatively quick too with Brobots and the more recent list Thug life (although the latter is contested by the rebels stresshog but it has already been established that currently rebels have more top meta options for lists). Scum has been competitively viable from the start and people have been playing it in premier events rather than just playing Imps and Rebs and S&V was treated as Warrior in Hearthstone Arena when you only played it because you were board of winning games. So in that regards I call FFG's implementation of a 3rd faction in X-wing a success.

Now the big question or addressing the counterargument for the 3rd faction is did scum take builds away from the Imperials and made it so the Rebels were the most variety, and if scum didn't exist Imperials would have more variety in their list. Well scum did take 1 list away and that was Buzzsaw shuttle but buzzsaww didn't see that much sucess not to the level of brobots. And even then if you combined both scum and imperial top lists and compare them with the selection of top lists the rebels the rebels will still have more. So in short the Rebels has always been the faction with the most variety in the competitive space. The rebels were all about supporting each other so that made their lists almost modular where you can easily swap out a ship or upgrade to change your list to a changing meta. Imperials were more about order, find what works best then copy it until you achieve success after success. Scum is still in development but it is getting there.

I went 3-0 with Soontir and Night Beast last night in the first round of an escalation tournament last night. I am also planning to take an Imperial list to a store championship at the end of the month. Upgrades for Tie Advanced and addition of the Emperor have made Imperials more interesting lately.

Yes.

I can't figure out how the faction with the most pilots available to them is getting the short end of the stick. I look at it like them more options you have the better squads you can build. Not including the upcoming wave this is a breakdown of ships vs. pilots.

Empire 11 ships 70 pilots

Rebel 11 ships 56 pilots

Scum 9 ships 36 pilots

After next wave

Empire 12 ships 74 pilots

Rebels 13 ships 64 pilots

Scum 11 ships 44 pilots

After Imperial Veterans

Empire 12 ships 78 pilots

Rebels 13 ships 64 pilots

Scum 11 ships 44 pilots

I am a staunch Imperial player and I think the faction is in a good place right now, for the most part. The biggest weakness of the faction is the reliance on evades and the absence of effective HP.

In one individual game, all of the factions are right next to one another. Over the course of a tournament, small mistakes and the ability to be one shot can really sink the boys in black.

One failed die roll in an interceptor and you are toast. One failed die roll in an A or X-Wing or even K fighter and you live to fly another day. Dice are rarely the reason you lose a game but when you blank out with those green dice, it feels like you did.

All that said, I can't wait for the TAP and Imperial Veterans. Those ships/fixes are going to reinvigorate the faction in a big way.

Top 4 was two rebels one scum and one imp. Nathan and Paul are also both well documented as extremely talented players, that mayyyy have played into it.

I wonder how different things would be on these forums if Paul Heaver preferred Imperials? I think he'd still be world champion, but we'd be claiming different lists are over powered.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that people have this wierd affinity for imperials where they personally associate with them more so than any other faction. I've got a closet full of rebel t shirts but I played mostly imperials until discovered rebel control and had a lot of sucess with that.

I'm not knocking it, it's fun to get into the rivalries but it definitely contributes to these situations.

This is one of the strangest phenomenons of the x wing community. It often seems like there's two camps, people who play x wing (all the factions, maybe favouring one over another slightly), and people who play imperials. I like rebels, mostly play them but I dabble in sum and imps as well, whereas people who primarily play imps never touch the other factions it seems.

In any case the short answer to the OP's question is no, the Imperials are not getting the short end of the stick. The imperials have a wealth of excellent options from the humble TIE fighter right through to the decimator and phantom. They've got some of the best maneuver pilots in the game and pretty much every problem ship the faction has has been buffed. Compare to the rebels where the x wing has been rubbish for quite some time, the b wing has been killed off by TLTs E wings other than corran were dead on arrival. Sure the A wing received a fix but how often do you see them in competitive play? Other than as blockers. Han really doesn't enjoy TLTs either. Competitive rebels really just boils down to regen aces and stressbots.

Once the Imp Vets comes out then nearly every imperial ship will be viable in some way, that's pretty **** good. Now I know things aren't exactly rosy in the imperial camp, and I know that the good stuff the rebs have can be aggravating but with a more rounded outlook you can see that things are fairly well balanced and really scum is in a much worse position than either rebs or imps.

I did a 200 pt vs 200 pt battle a few weeks ago. Imps flew Whisper, 3 Interceptors (Fel, RG, and another ace), rest was TIE swarm with Howlrunner, 2 academy pilots, and 2 TIE/FO. Rebels flew K-Wing, A-Wing, Z-95, 2 T-70, T-65, and a few others w/upgrades. Round 1 went to the Empire, losing almost nothing. Round 2, same squads, Rebels cleaned the table with the Empire. Came down to flying and dice. I think the sides are balanced, just different strengths and weaknesses.

For those interested in the squad make up, it really was flying almost everything we had more than a seriously thought out 200 point squad. It was fun though.

S&V just sit here with our Scyks Starvipers and YVs and try to understand why is the Empire so depressed

Scum even got a cloak!

playing a phantom build without AdvCloakingDevice upgrade

It's like we don't even exist.

*sheds a tear

Who plays S&V when you can play IG subfaction!

IG-4000 to the rescue! TASTE THE RAINBOW MANGLER!

The good news is that scum has found their niche in the meta and relatively quick too with Brobots and the more recent list Thug life (although the latter is contested by the rebels stresshog but it has already been established that currently rebels have more top meta options for lists). Scum has been competitively viable from the start and people have been playing it in premier events rather than just playing Imps and Rebs and S&V was treated as Warrior in Hearthstone Arena when you only played it because you were board of winning games. So in that regards I call FFG's implementation of a 3rd faction in X-wing a success.

Now the big question or addressing the counterargument for the 3rd faction is did scum take builds away from the Imperials and made it so the Rebels were the most variety, and if scum didn't exist Imperials would have more variety in their list. Well scum did take 1 list away and that was Buzzsaw shuttle but buzzsaww didn't see that much sucess not to the level of brobots. And even then if you combined both scum and imperial top lists and compare them with the selection of top lists the rebels the rebels will still have more. So in short the Rebels has always been the faction with the most variety in the competitive space. The rebels were all about supporting each other so that made their lists almost modular where you can easily swap out a ship or upgrade to change your list to a changing meta. Imperials were more about order, find what works best then copy it until you achieve success after success. Scum is still in development but it is getting there.

When there are two lists that are different in just 1 upgrade there's always one that's better.

I'm afraid rebel YYYY is still better.

IGs are a self-sufficient list that could have been any faction, because it isn't Scummy.

The Glorious Space Pirate Mercenary Faction

in them is simply a Glitterstim in one of the builds v_v

There's a TON of ways of making S&V viable, but right now they don't even start smelling different.

TLT-spam? Rebels have it better

Kihraxz gunline? IF it was wave 2-3 out there, maybe. But they are dead meat in the Boostwing Wave 7

Bossk is stillborn because FFG ####ed up the Daredevil, blocking the possible Outlaw tech combo. and TLTs >_>

Firespray? Never was and didn't become a tournament level choice.

HWK? Tried hard to not make it powerful. Succeeded too much.

Scyk? Starviper? poor guys can sometimes be used as a signal marker of doomed list

Rebel choices are about upgrade synergy.

Put Horn into a FCS-less list and he sucks scyks

Put the word "PRIMARY" into Miranda's ability and she can walk out of the window

Unless we see something unusual like Illicit-to-droid or illicit-to-crew S&V won't evolve into anything but pale shade of rebels

Just wait until Imperial Veterans.

Then Defenders will probably be in the meta.

If the official squad point total for tournaments is raised to 120, then sure.

If Imperial Veterans really does make defender competitive and add some bomber love then Imps are just right.

Scum really is the weakest faction but its to be expected being a late entrant to the game.

Just wait until Imperial Veterans.

Then Defenders will probably be in the meta.

If the official squad point total for tournaments is raised to 120, then sure.

I can't figure out how the faction with the most pilots available to them is getting the short end of the stick. I look at it like them more options you have the better squads you can build. Not including the upcoming wave this is a breakdown of ships vs. pilots.

Empire 11 ships 70 pilots

Rebel 11 ships 56 pilots

Scum 9 ships 36 pilots

After next wave

Empire 12 ships 74 pilots

Rebels 13 ships 64 pilots

Scum 11 ships 44 pilots

After Imperial Veterans

Empire 12 ships 78 pilots

Rebels 13 ships 64 pilots

Scum 11 ships 44 pilots

It's quality not quantity that counts.

It doesn't matter if I can put down 3 pilots for every one of yours, if your pilot is simply better than my three.

Look at the interceptor, we know it's great. But really Soontir is great, Carnor is pretty sweet and maybe Turr has some mileage. But none of the others are really that useful. And Fells Wrath is so bad he actually removes some of Soontirs awesome by just existing in the same game.

That's just one example, but by your rationale the Interceptor is awesome because it has a lot of options, the reality is it has almost none. You have Soontir, who might as well be glued to ptl, stealth and thrusters and Carnor who has a tiny bit more variety in build.

I'm not saying Imperials are poor, but you can't judge them on simply having the most options, when most of those options are bad.