Most of us know that this is not possible, BUT I just want to put it out there because I had an opponent do this with his Miranda piloted Kwing in a match during a recent tournament. NOW it was not a store championship so, I decided to not make a big deal about it. Basically it went down like this:

We BOTH had a Miranda Doni piloted Kwing. I've been flying a list with Miranda in it pretty strictly for the last two months. At one point in the match his Miranda was out of range of all my ships and he had NOT slammed (so he had an opportunity to attack if he had range on any enemy ships). When it was his Miranda's turn to attack he checked range and realized he had no enemy ships inside of range 3 or less. SO he said, "I am firing Miranda's primary weapon at no target, with one less die and recovering a shield."

Looking at the rules regarding attack (new Rules Reference book in TFA Core Set)... the first phase of attack is the "Declare target phase" and as you read through the various bullet points you will see that you MUST have a target in range of the weapon you intend to use AND in that weapon's firing arc. Without a target in range and firing arc of a weapon you can not proceed to the next step: (2) Roll Attack Dice.

I'm really just posting this out there so that it's known that someone is trying this method of shield recovery for Miranda in the tournament scene in the greater Puget Sound area.

I'm relatively confident that I am reading things right and this method of shield recovering is out side of the rules. BUT if I am wrong, please... some one let me know.

You can only use Miranda's ability once per round when attacking, and it's not attacking if you don't have a valid target. So this player was not only outside the rules, but totally cheating.

You can only use Miranda's ability once per round when attacking, and it's not attacking if you don't have a valid target. So this player was not only outside the rules, but totally cheating.

Yep. Quoted for accuracy.

Yeah, I knew with 99% certainty at the time that what he was doing was not withing the rules. I mean I have about 35 matches now flying Miranda in my squad the past two months. A few matches against some of the top ranked players in the states (both live and on Vassal, but I'm not going to name drop) and I'm sure if I COULD have performed that kind of shenanigans with the shield recovery, they would have told me; if not during the match, then certainly after the match.

I knew it was bogus when this opponent explained it. AND I choose to not make an issue of it since it was a more casual tournament (although there were prizes and the winter kit involved). I try my best to not stir the pot with local players in their store, during casual tournaments, when I am the traveling player. HOWEVER... had this been a store championship or bigger event (something considered "Competitive" or "Premier") I would have called the TO over and asked for clarification.

Hindsight, I probably should have talked to the TO in between tournament rounds OR even after the tournament was over and asked for clarification and a heads up that one of his regular, local players running Miranda was attempting said method of illegal shield recovery.

Yeah, I knew with 99% certainty at the time that what he was doing was not withing the rules. I mean I have about 35 matches now flying Miranda in my squad the past two months. A few matches against some of the top ranked players in the states (both live and on Vassal, but I'm not going to name drop) and I'm sure if I COULD have performed that kind of shenanigans with the shield recovery, they would have told me; if not during the match, then certainly after the match.

I knew it was bogus when this opponent explained it. AND I choose to not make an issue of it since it was a more casual tournament (although there were prizes and the winter kit involved). I try my best to not stir the pot with local players in their store, during casual tournaments, when I am the traveling player. HOWEVER... had this been a store championship or bigger event (something considered "Competitive" or "Premier") I would have called the TO over and asked for clarification.

Hindsight, I probably should have talked to the TO in between tournament rounds OR even after the tournament was over and asked for clarification and a heads up that one of his regular, local players running Miranda was attempting said method of illegal shield recovery.

I certainly wouldn't have allowed that sort of play, regardless of the situation or location. There's no justification in the rules, and using Miranda was an excuse and just a smokescreen to cover the cheating. Why stop there? Why not just remove a damage card from a ship and put it in the discard pile for no reason other than "I didn't like it there".

I'd understand hesitation if you thought this might have been a bit dodgy, but from your post, it appears you kinda knew this was wrong from start to finish. Never put up with cheaters. They'll get away with one blatant thing, and then see how far they can go with the next thing.

Let's do a quick poll: Hands up all those that think that you can still make an "attack" when you don't have a valid target.

I didn't see any hands go up, so I guess that's unanimous! YOU CAN'T!!

You should have brought it to the TO's attention, whether it was a casual event or a championship match. Reason being that the other player may have been cheating, or may have actually been ignorant of the requirement to have a valid target.

Played a guy who boosted, PTL'd then boosted again. I pointed out that you couldn't use the same action twice in a turn (unless granted that by an upgrade or such), and showed him the rule in the book. He apologized for overlooking the rule, and from then on, played fair & square. He was a relatively new player and had only 'skimmed' the rules and overlooked some of the finer points

I think you should always be pointing out rules issues such as these, whether in a tournament or casual game.

Not doing so just reinforces the incorrect interpretation and actions. Stuff like that can spread within a playgroup, especially if the player playing incorrectly is generally well regarded. You travel to play enough games systems and you will find instances of players unequivocally sure that XYZ works a way it most certainly does not, all because that's how everybody at the shop plays it that way. Additionally you don't want to cultivate your group a "that guy". You know "that guy" that constantly flubs the rules but always somehow justifies his errirs.

Guess I could also mention that rules sometimes change on something for no apparent reason. If you know it one way then pointing it out can help keep everyone up to snuff.

Guess I could also mention that rules sometimes change on something for no apparent reason. If you know it one way then pointing it out can help keep everyone up to snuff.

But this wasn't one of those instances.

It may not matter at the time and you may not think so, but I feel it's our responsibility or a little anyway to correct players who do these types of things.

Even if it didn't effect the outcome of the game, just because tomorrow he maybe teaching new players and he'll teach them how to play wrong and because the longer he gets away doing it the more he may feel he is correct.

"Noone ever corrected me in the last two tournament"

I recommend if you see him again point out that he has been using the ability incorrectly

It's also doing him a favor.

Next tournament this could come back and bit him when a to is called over and he finds out the hard way.

Maybe he would have moved differently knowing the correct way to do things

That's if it's a legitimate mistake.

If he's just trying to cheat take him out the back alley lol.

That'll teach him

Krynn007, I agree.

As soon as I was driving home I was already second guessing my not bring this up to him and/or the TO after the match.

Well at least now you know if there is another situation.

Krynn007, I agree.

As soon as I was driving home I was already second guessing my not bring this up to him and/or the TO after the match.

General Rule of Thumb: If something doesn't smell right, it's probably dodgy and warrants further investigation before proceeding further.

Incidentally, it also works for unusually old items you may discover in your refrigerator.

Krynn007, I agree.

As soon as I was driving home I was already second guessing my not bring this up to him and/or the TO after the match.

General Rule of Thumb: If something doesn't smell right, it's probably dodgy and warrants further investigation before proceeding further.

Incidentally, it also works for unusually old items you may discover in your refrigerator.

Just so happened yesterday with a bottle of strawberry jam. Something didn't seem right

Krynn007, I agree.

As soon as I was driving home I was already second guessing my not bring this up to him and/or the TO after the match.

General Rule of Thumb: If something doesn't smell right, it's probably dodgy and warrants further investigation before proceeding further.

Incidentally, it also works for unusually old items you may discover in your refrigerator.

I can agree to that.

Just so happened yesterday with a bottle of strawberry jam. Something didn't seem right

It's a very good Rule of Thumb that can be applied to multiple applications.

If someone is cheating call em out on it or they'll keep on doing it, you don't have to be nasty about it but the only way to stop it is to make it known.

I do not mean to pry, but are you from the west side of the sound or east side? I just want to make sure if it is west side (Kitsap Peninsula)

We just had a tournament where the players knew more about the errata and faq than the TO did, so I want to make sure everything is going right.

Yes, he has since been corrected and Friday's Tournament should be pretty stable

I am from South Sound. My "home" store is Game Matrix.

The player in question was from the east side.

I think you should always be pointing out rules issues such as these, whether in a tournament or casual game.

Not doing so just reinforces the incorrect interpretation and actions. Stuff like that can spread within a playgroup, especially if the player playing incorrectly is generally well regarded. You travel to play enough games systems and you will find instances of players unequivocally sure that XYZ works a way it most certainly does not, all because that's how everybody at the shop plays it that way. Additionally you don't want to cultivate your group a "that guy". You know "that guy" that constantly flubs the rules but always somehow justifies his errirs.

I agree with this in its entirety. Sure, perhaps the guy was cheating but on the other hand it's possible that the player thought he was doing something within the rules. There are some similar functions after all that FFG set a precedent with long ago that could be wrongly applied here such as with Garven Driess spending a focus token without having a focus result. Different but similar.

Kindly pointing out the rules or at least questioning things is beneficial to everyone.

I am from South Sound. My "home" store is Game Matrix.

The player in question was from the east side.

Thanks, hell it's been about 7 years since I was in the matrix.... used to play battletech in there.... Thanks again for the info

I am from South Sound. My "home" store is Game Matrix.

The player in question was from the east side.

Thanks, hell it's been about 7 years since I was in the matrix.... used to play battletech in there.... Thanks again for the info

Took the red pill did you?

EDIT: It just occurred to me that cultural reference is almost 20 years old. Now I feel even older....

I am from South Sound. My "home" store is Game Matrix.

The player in question was from the east side.

Thanks, hell it's been about 7 years since I was in the matrix.... used to play battletech in there.... Thanks again for the info

Took the red pill did you?

EDIT: It just occurred to me that cultural reference is almost 20 years old. Now I feel even older....

Why, oh why didn't I take the Blue Pill? lol

I've got the nice yellow ones with a smiley face on them.

I agree that it should have been brought to his attention. I'm a fairly new player, and since I work Saturdays to this point I mainly play with my kid. I spend a lot of time here and I've picked up a lot of accidental rule breakage on both our parts. Some of us just don't know, and I'd never be offended by diplomatic correction if I accidentally break the rules.

I agree that it should have been brought to his attention. I'm a fairly new player, and since I work Saturdays to this point I mainly play with my kid. I spend a lot of time here and I've picked up a lot of accidental rule breakage on both our parts. Some of us just don't know, and I'd never be offended by diplomatic correction if I accidentally break the rules.

The thing is, you are currently running on your own interpretations of the rules, and given the small size of your play group (you and your kid), it's hard to figure out what some of those "odd" rules actually mean in game-play. Reading the posts here, is a great start, as you can ask questions and gain knowledge. And being a newbie, it's expected you may get things wrong. I'd be really surprised if you were doing something wrong during a game and a more knowledgeable opponent didn't point out the error in a diplomatic fashion. It seems to be the general vibe I get from most X-wingers. They seem to be a good bunch, unlike some of the more seasoned wargamers I come up against in other game systems. Some of them can be the 'win-at-all-costs' type of player and cheating is quite an acceptable way to achieve that win for them.

The thing about the K-wing player in the original post seems to me that he was not a new player, and was probably pushing the boundaries a bit to see what he could get away with. And indeed he got away with it. You can generally tell from most players when they make an honest mistake and when they are trying to do something dodgy. One generally has to know the rules fairly well in order to pull a fast one and cheat. But when someone has to resort to that when playing someone who doesn't know any better, that's pretty low.

If you want to increase your player base, check out your LGS and see if there are any players that could be keen for an evening game. There's usually some keen players that will jump at the chance.