Can I spend a Squadron Token if I reveal a Concentrate Fire Command?

You can resolve any and all tokens at the appropriate time. With tokens that are done simultaniously , you choose the order they are done in...

The only restriction is that if you are going to resolve both a dial and a token of the same command then they must be resolved at the same time .

So say you have an Engineering, a Squadron, and a Concentrate Fire Token.

You reveal a Concentrate Fire Dial. You elect (then and there) to keep the Dial.

You can then Spend the Engineering and Squadron Token right away, in your preferred order.

You then spend your Concentrate fire Dial at the appropriate time to add a Die... However, if you are also going tos pend the Token, it has to be on the same attack ... If you happen to roll all hits withyoru dice, congrats, you wasted a Reroll...

Yes.

Drasnighta, would you not get to roll first with the extra die from your concentrate fire command dial and then decide if you want to spend the token for a reroll, or do you have to declare if you are spending the token before you roll?

Drasnighta, would you not get to roll first with the extra die from your concentrate fire command dial and then decide if you want to spend the token for a reroll, or do you have to declare if you are spending the token before you roll?

Congratulations.

You have found the one question that I will not attempt to answer .

I leave it now as a solid "I don't know."

When I have made a call in the past, I have been subject to:

1) Verbal abuse in person.

2) Written abuse online.

3) Physical Violence in person (Dice hurt when they're thrown across a table, people...).

Ergo, I leave it to other people to debate the specific timing vis-a-vis declarations of intent versus resolution of tokens.

Please understand that this is for my own personal mental well being.

I'll do it.

You may declare what you're spending after you've seen the results of the roll, but must declare whether you're spending one or both before you resolve either. You can resolve the dial and the token in either order, though, because they are simultaneous effects belonging to the same player, which means that the owning player chooses the order of resolution. This means that you can add the extra die and then wait to see whether you want to reroll it or another (or nothing) if you spend both the dial and the token... But regardless of the choice, at that point the token is already spent, meaning if you don't want to reroll anything, it's simply lost.

Relevant rules:

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RRG 4

COMMANDS
...

• [concentrate fire] Concentrate Fire: Resolve during the “Resolve Attack Effects” step of an attack.

...

• A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round.

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a [navigate] command dial and a [navigate] command token.

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RRG 5

EFFECT USE AND TIMING

• If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

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RRG 7

MODIFYING DICE
...
• Reroll: When a die is rerolled, the attacker picks it up

...

• Add: When a die is added, roll an unused die of the appropriate color into the attack pool

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So (assuming you have a CF token banked and a CF dial showing) the relevant order is:

1. Roll
2. Decide based on the roll whether you want to spend one, both, or neither

3. If you want to spend both, reroll a die and add a die, in either order

a. If you do both, you should usually add the die first, because it might effect which die you want to reroll, but you can choose the order


I feel like there was something else I wanted to clarify, but I'm tired so fsck it.

^ This

1) Verbal abuse in person.

2) Written abuse online.

3) Physical Violence in person (Dice hurt when they're thrown across a table, people...)

Ya know in the old days they sent people to Australia for just those reasons. I say put 'em in a leaky boat and send 'em our way.

When resolving OTHER commands than CF, there is seemingly no disagreement:

Squadron: you spend the token and dial together, no? You don't activate X squads and then activate one more after you've seen the result?

Engineering: same. You don't get to repair with dial first, then do the token later if you feel like it.

Nav: spend the dial and token at the same time, no question about it.

So why would CF be any different?

When resolving OTHER commands than CF, there is seemingly no disagreement:

Squadron: you spend the token and dial together, no? You don't activate X squads and then activate one more after you've seen the result?

Engineering: same. You don't get to repair with dial first, then do the token later if you feel like it.

Nav: spend the dial and token at the same time, no question about it.

So why would CF be any different?

With the others it is quite clear at decision time whether to use one or both. I need this many engineering points or this many. I do or do not want to activate that squadron. With CF you might not want to re-roll something. They know they want the extra die but they don't know if they want that re-roll. So folks balk at the idea of spending something for nothing.

This combines with a failure in my opinion to grasp the fundamental concept of "concentrating fire." If it is spread around over a couple of targets it isn't "concentrated." You don't get a "do over" when trying to shoot something (which conflicts with the concept of a re-roll which is exactly a "do over.")

This combines with the love/hate relationship one typically has with the fickle mistress Lady Luck.

So it is messy.

When resolving OTHER commands than CF, there is seemingly no disagreement:

Squadron: you spend the token and dial together, no? You don't activate X squads and then activate one more after you've seen the result?

Engineering: same. You don't get to repair with dial first, then do the token later if you feel like it.

Nav: spend the dial and token at the same time, no question about it.

So why would CF be any different?

With the others it is quite clear at decision time whether to use one or both. I need this many engineering points or this many. I do or do not want to activate that squadron. With CF you might not want to re-roll something. They know they want the extra die but they don't know if they want that re-roll. So folks balk at the idea of spending something for nothing.

This combines with a failure in my opinion to grasp the fundamental concept of "concentrating fire." If it is spread around over a couple of targets it isn't "concentrated." You don't get a "do over" when trying to shoot something (which conflicts with the concept of a re-roll which is exactly a "do over.")

This combines with the love/hate relationship one typically has with the fickle mistress Lady Luck.

So it is messy.

I'd say the Squad token is the same - you may or may not want to use it after resolving your 3-4 other squadron activations.

I'd say the Squad token is the same - you may or may not want to use it after resolving your 3-4 other squadron activations.

I've done this. "Crap, I should've spent that token, too." It happens. Not generally as much, but it does on occasion.

I'd say the Squad token is the same - you may or may not want to use it after resolving your 3-4 other squadron activations.

I've done this. "Crap, I should've spent that token, too." It happens. Not generally as much, but it does on occasion.

Oh, I definitely agree with this one. It happens. And I've no problem being flexible about it. Stuff like that goes both ways.

But in PRINCIPLE I think you should announce it at the same time.

I play by the rules. If I make a mistake due to my own error in judgment, then I'll live with it. Some things like completely forgetting to flip the command dial, so taking the token, I'm cool with that.

I love how casual the community can be, even at tournaments.