You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about. I think it was with the influx of higher damage rolls through the ISD, Ackbar and Home One that it started making a bigger appearance. That has to be why it started catching on right?

When I FIRST looked at XI7s, I immediately bought 3x Neb-B expansions, and this before Wave 2 hit the shelves. Why wasn't this everyone else's reaction?

Yea I could see that its grown more popular since wave 2. However, I have been running X17's before X17's became the cool thing to do

I swear no one reads my observations. . .

No, I read your observations my man. I'm more interested in why they've only recently caught on.

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about. I think it was with the influx of higher damage rolls through the ISD, Ackbar and Home One that it started making a bigger appearance. That has to be why it started catching on right?

When I FIRST looked at XI7s, I immediately bought 3x Neb-B expansions, and this before Wave 2 hit the shelves. Why wasn't this everyone else's reaction?

Yea I could see that its grown more popular since wave 2. However, I have been running X17's before X17's became the cool thing to do

I swear no one reads my observations. . .

No, I read your observations my man. I'm more interested in why they've only recently caught on.

It's typical for me. The logic I use often requires people to experience it themselves before they will take it as fact. It does not help that I come off terse and that puts people off.

Good thing Vassal is the ultimate platform to "Try before you Buy".

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about. I think it was with the influx of higher damage rolls through the ISD, Ackbar and Home One that it started making a bigger appearance. That has to be why it started catching on right?

When I FIRST looked at XI7s, I immediately bought 3x Neb-B expansions, and this before Wave 2 hit the shelves. Why wasn't this everyone else's reaction?

Yea I could see that its grown more popular since wave 2. However, I have been running X17's before X17's became the cool thing to do

I swear no one reads my observations. . .

No, I read your observations my man. I'm more interested in why they've only recently caught on.

It's typical for me. The logic I use often requires people to experience it themselves before they will take it as fact. It does not help that I come off terse and that puts people off.

Good thing Vassal is the ultimate platform to "Try before you Buy".

Vassal Armada is like online Netrunner, it lacks a few things but is a good test platform

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about. I think it was with the influx of higher damage rolls through the ISD, Ackbar and Home One that it started making a bigger appearance. That has to be why it started catching on right?

When I FIRST looked at XI7s, I immediately bought 3x Neb-B expansions, and this before Wave 2 hit the shelves. Why wasn't this everyone else's reaction?

Well there was that FAQ ruling that nerfed AP's. I believe that was when XI-7's began multiplying on the tabletop...

Yeah, pretty much you never saw XI-7s back in the day when every AFII was running Advanced Projectors and was near unkillable. Then XI-7s had their ruling reversed (previously AP let you move 1 damage to each hull zone), and suddenly XI7s were everywhere, and AP disappeared.

Wave 2 adding BIG DICE to the game helped too. Though I think I still prefer Heavy Turbos on BIG DICE Rebels / Imperial I-Class / Victory I-Class (Red Dice and Black Dice are favored) because it punches harder than XI7s on bigger ships with more tokens, and semi-counters ECM, because I want to hunt big ships. XI7's are better if you are hunting small base Rebels (note, Nebulon B not included) or if you are throwing less dice. It's right about the 6 damage mark that heavy turbos become better in a vacuum.

Plus if I even considered SW7 Ions on an ISD2, VSD2, or MC80 Command, you'd bet Heavy Turbos would be coming along for the ride as well.

Plus there is still a soft spot in my heart for my Wave 1 Imperial love, the VSD1 w/ Warlord and H9 Turbos.

FREE DAMAGE FOR ALL YOUR SQUADRONS!

I've seen it all throughout Wave 1, so it's not new to me. The AP interaction change obviously made it more desirable, too.

I generally have been using Heavy Turbolaser Turrets combined with Intel Officers. Use your brace and lose it.

XX-9s. I am a Dodonna player at heart - choosing 1 from 4 faceup damage twice is hilarious. You can often either cripple a ship, or deal an extra 2 damage on the attack just from choosing the cards.

No, I read your observations my man. I'm more interested in why they've only recently caught on.

I think it also has to do with many of us (at least on the forums) wanting to crack the code of the game by ourselves and prove that we're more innovative than the next guy Part of the fun is making lists and unearthing combos, the second part is actually playing the game, so many people are not looking online for tips.

On top of that, when losing to a combo that is very well known, people have a knee jerk reaction that using it after that is another defeat (moral this time), so they're voluntarily going for their own niche.

Finally, many people are looking for their own identity with their fleets, for the rule of cool, and try to be efficient around it. For example, after Gencon and the craze of Gladiator builds and no squadron lists, I stuck to Rebels and fighter heavy lists and was pretty successful when I was running my staple Gallant Haven (EH) + Neb Escort (Tallon) + CR90A (Jaina's to host Dodonna behind the GH) with 2 Bs, 2 Ys, 1 X and Wedge. I dismantled so many no squadron Imperials with that list, and got lots of points back with lists that had even a decent interception screen (when the enemy throws his imperial Aces interception with Vader/Fel/Mauler/Howlrunner, it's pretty fun to see how awesome the GH defense is, then they get double tapped by Wedge + the X-Wing + GH activating all the dudes and an anti fighter barrage from the escort frigate, this combo has got the firepower to break through any fighter screen that tries to pin them down and thus start out with a points advantage ^^).

____

Back to the turbolasers, in Wave 1 in my local meta if any Turbolasers were picked above everything else, it was XI7 and Enhanced Armaments. I barely saw any XX-9 or H9 at all. I'm pretty sure we're going to see more XX-9 on ISDs but I'm pretty sure we won't see any H9 in my meta (too expensive and redundant with Home One), except on the guys who want to throw out a couple or CR90As as a wide flank wolf pack (and when hitting the reat arc, accuracies are priceless to pin the damages down here).

Valid points MoffZen.

I am still debating on XX-9's. They are actually a valid card now compared to wave 1. I have been punching more and more damage through lately as Imperials. The issue is that I am pushing that damage with XI7's. . . Hmmmm

Valid points MoffZen.

I am still debating on XX-9's. They are actually a valid card now compared to wave 1. I have been punching more and more damage through lately as Imperials. The issue is that I am pushing that damage with XI7's. . . Hmmmm

I think XX-9s can be viable now, but due to how random the effects are on crits it's really hard to plan for their effectiveness.

Morevoer, it doesn't ensure damage or helps push it through, so I think it should be taken as an upgrade for lists that can push damage through regardless, and use its presence to threaten the guy into burning his already expended defense tokens. Example : a Screed list with Overload Pulse from a Raider followed up by a front arc from an ISD (or the Avenger and XX-9 would work well).

That way, if the opponent only takes 2 damage, at least you can ensure it's 2 crits

Valid points MoffZen.

I am still debating on XX-9's. They are actually a valid card now compared to wave 1. I have been punching more and more damage through lately as Imperials. The issue is that I am pushing that damage with XI7's. . . Hmmmm

I think XX-9s can be viable now, but due to how random the effects are on crits it's really hard to plan for their effectiveness.

Morevoer, it doesn't ensure damage or helps push it through, so I think it should be taken as an upgrade for lists that can push damage through regardless, and use its presence to threaten the guy into burning his already expended defense tokens. Example : a Screed list with Overload Pulse from a Raider followed up by a front arc from an ISD (or the Avenger and XX-9 would work well).

That way, if the opponent only takes 2 damage, at least you can ensure it's 2 crits

Valid points MoffZen.

I am still debating on XX-9's. They are actually a valid card now compared to wave 1. I have been punching more and more damage through lately as Imperials. The issue is that I am pushing that damage with XI7's. . . Hmmmm

I think XX-9s can be viable now, but due to how random the effects are on crits it's really hard to plan for their effectiveness.

Morevoer, it doesn't ensure damage or helps push it through, so I think it should be taken as an upgrade for lists that can push damage through regardless, and use its presence to threaten the guy into burning his already expended defense tokens. Example : a Screed list with Overload Pulse from a Raider followed up by a front arc from an ISD (or the Avenger and XX-9 would work well).

That way, if the opponent only takes 2 damage, at least you can ensure it's 2 crits

I feel like that is too complicated and relies on too many factors to work. . .

It's not a combo, it's a vanity upgrade If I know that I'm going to deal 2 cards + on an enemy ship because I'm attacking last, might as well make them two crits.

Which is why it's not bad on an Avenger and ship with Overload Pulse combo. I know that I'm going to push damage through regardless, might as well make it 2 crits.

Bit is that better than XI7 Turbolasers where I can pretty much ignore your ability to stay in the fight longer?

That is what redirects mean to me. They allow me to absorb more damage so if they suddenly started absorbing less damage then I am in trouble faster.

This is just my view though

Bit is that better than XI7 Turbolasers where I can pretty much ignore your ability to stay in the fight longer?

That is what redirects mean to me. They allow me to absorb more damage so if they suddenly started absorbing less damage then I am in trouble faster.

This is just my view though

It's more a question of fleet building doctrine. In my gaming group we have developped a principle that a fleet must excel in at least 2 of the following to be efficient : Large attack pools, high number of attacks, defense token mitigation.

Typically, the XI7 + Intel Officer on a VSD or ISD works because it fits Large Attack Pools + Defense Token Mitigation on a single ship.

With an Overload Pulse Raider + Avenger that dives in to get 2 angles on the enemy in preparation from an XX-9 ship, we're looking at a high number of attacks (3 in this case, on 2 ships) with defense token mitigation through the Overload Pulse. The 8 dice from the Avenger are less important than the one-two punch from the Raider and Overload Pulse to push damage through.

So, XI7 + Intel Officer works well on standalone ships, but you have other builds One need to look at fleet building fleet wide rather than at a ship level.

imo if ever Armada would need a restricted list XI7 would be the prime candidate.

imo if ever Armada would need a restricted list XI7 would be the prime candidate.

imo if ever Armada would need a restricted list XI7 would be the prime candidate.

Not really. They just need to return Advanced Projectors.

Definitely. I don't understand why they reFAQ'd this the other way. It makes XI7 completely negate that card. At least I wouldn't take it considering that the opponent might have XI7.

On top of that, putting it back to how it was in Wave 1 would give more interesting builds to HTT.

Bit is that better than XI7 Turbolasers where I can pretty much ignore your ability to stay in the fight longer?

That is what redirects mean to me. They allow me to absorb more damage so if they suddenly started absorbing less damage then I am in trouble faster.

This is just my view though

It's more a question of fleet building doctrine. In my gaming group we have developped a principle that a fleet must excel in at least 2 of the following to be efficient : Large attack pools, high number of attacks, defense token mitigation.

Typically, the XI7 + Intel Officer on a VSD or ISD works because it fits Large Attack Pools + Defense Token Mitigation on a single ship.

With an Overload Pulse Raider + Avenger that dives in to get 2 angles on the enemy in preparation from an XX-9 ship, we're looking at a high number of attacks (3 in this case, on 2 ships) with defense token mitigation through the Overload Pulse. The 8 dice from the Avenger are less important than the one-two punch from the Raider and Overload Pulse to push damage through.

So, XI7 + Intel Officer works well on standalone ships, but you have other builds One need to look at fleet building fleet wide rather than at a ship level.

Welp, I just learned more about fleetbuilding in one post than the rest of my time here.

imo if ever Armada would need a restricted list XI7 would be the prime candidate.

Not really. They just need to return Advanced Projectors.

But if they do, I'll be WRONG. Can't have that

imo if ever Armada would need a restricted list XI7 would be the prime candidate.

Not really. They just need to return Advanced Projectors.

But if they do, I'll be WRONG. Can't have that

Of course we can! It will be fine. Like Dano says, "you are right until you are wrong"

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about.

Didn't you barely play before wave 2 came about? Mystery solved.

The rest if your post, left unqouted, explains their rise in popularity. But even in wave 1 pre-errata it was on just about every AFMK2/Salvation Neb out there.

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about.

Didn't you barely play before wave 2 came about? Mystery solved.

The rest if your post, left unqouted, explains their rise in popularity. But even in wave 1 pre-errata it was on just about every AFMK2/Salvation Neb out there.

My AFMKii's had Enhanced Armaments. I enjoyed the heck out of Fire Lanes!

You know what's kind of strange?

I barely saw mention of XI7 Turbolasers until Wave 2 came about.

Didn't you barely play before wave 2 came about? Mystery solved.

The rest if your post, left unqouted, explains their rise in popularity. But even in wave 1 pre-errata it was on just about every AFMK2/Salvation Neb out there.

My AFMKii's had Enhanced Armaments. I enjoyed the heck out of Fire Lanes!

Just about I said.

H-9s would probably be worth it if they let you change any die to an accuracy the way Home One does. Home One is a cheaper upgrade and can buff all of your other ships. I can't see this upgrade ever getting used without a change like this. I am not trying to get rid of my damage I am trying to get rid of my blanks!!!

H9s are a great upgrade for turbolaser ships flinging blue dice, especially the MC30c Torpedo Frigate. If Home One is an option, they can be replaced with the title but if you want a smaller, heavier hitting fleet it's a solid upgrade for a short list of ships.

I think the least useful Turbolaser card is probably XX-9s. Ships need to somehow do at least two damage to the hull with a critical effect. Just seems unlikely to occur very often. That said, with Dodanna they could be pretty disgusting.