Why does true aim not require strain vs Frenzied attack when both have the same effect...one for ranged vs one for brawl/melee?
Frenzied attack verses true aim
Frenzied Attack is an incidental and can be used in conjunction with other maneuvers and Talents. In addition if you double Aim the Strain kicks in for that.
It is true that true aim is maneuver, but you got all benefit from aim maneuver, so you also may make double aim.
FRENZIED ATTACK
Activation: Active (Incidental)
Ranked: Yes
Trees: Marauder
When making a Melee or Brawl combat check, the
character may suffer a number of strain, then upgrade
the ability of his combat check by that number. The
number cannot exceed his ranks in Frenzied Attack.
- Usable with close combat (Melee or Brawl)
- May upgrade combat check by ranks
- Three times in Marauder tree for 5 XP, 15 XP, and 25 XP
Pros: Only an incidental, so you don't need to use a maneuver or action; ranks available sooner and cheaper.
Cons: Cost 1 strain per rank used.
TRUE AIM
Activation: Active (Maneuver)
Ranked: Yes
Trees: Mercenary Soldier
Once per round, before the character makes a ranged
attack, he may perform a True Aim maneuver. By
performing this maneuver, the character gains all the
benefits for aiming and also upgrades his attack roll
once per rank of True Aim.
- Usable with ranged combat (Ranged Light, Ranged Heavy, Gunnery)
- May upgrade combat checks by rank
- Includes a free Aim maneuver
- Twice in Mercenary Soldier tree, both for 25 XP
Pros: Usable with one more combat skill; includes the Aim maneuver; no strain cost
Cons: Requires a maneuver to perform; must wait longer for ranks and more expensive
True Aim gives a bit more benefit than Frenzied Attack, even considering the maneuver cost, but it's expensive at 50 XP for only 2 ranks and requires longer (and more XP) to buy down the tree. Frenzied Attack costs 45 XP for 3 ranks, one of which can be purchased for only 5 XP, and doesn't require a maneuver. So, considering the pros, cons, rank availability, and XP cost, I'd say they even out as far as balance goes.
Thanks. Was just wondering the comparison. True aim is in sharpshooter cheaper. True aim is also in sharpshooter and shoes up cheaper.
Does that mean if true aim gives all aim bonuses that it upgrades attack and gives boost die also
Does that mean if true aim gives all aim bonuses that it upgrades attack and gives boost die also
Yes. Using True Aim grants an upgrade per rank as well as the normal benefits of aiming (Boost Die)
You could Aim, take two Strain to True Aim, then attack. Potentially adding two Boosts and two upgrades to your shot. That **** will ruin some NPC's day quick, fast, and in a hurry.
Edited by DbuntuRight or you could just true aim and no strain for only one upgrade and one boost. Wow sharpshooter just became one of my players favorite specializations
Wow wish Frenzied attack was better since a player wants a melee character. Seems like melee and brawl just don't have as many options yet or ever. We need some Tera Kasi or other martial arts specializations. Unless someone home brewed them?
The Marauder in my group regularly uses Frenzied Attacks. All those upgrades make for a good amount of advantages. He loves the yo-yo effect; 3 strain down 2 strain up, 1 strain down 3 strain up.
Plus it frees up maneuver options. Need to get engaged and still wallop the target, can do. Stand from prone and engage and swing, still hit like a truck. Engage, strike, disengage hit like a beast and ranged allies can do their shots without penalty. He just plays the strain game rather than the action economy.
When it was only EotE, I would've agreed with Ogg's assesment. When I was playing my merc soldier, it felt a little like cheating to get a proficiency die from taking a maneuver i would've taken anyway, though it was tempered a little by being expensive and in only 1 tree w/ a total of 2 ranks. Since AoR came out with more and cheap ranks of the talent, my opinion has changed to it being a bit OP. Characters will already take the aim maneuver whenever they have the chance, so cheap ranks remove the only other con to the talent.
To go a bit deeper, I only see 10 talents which can upgrade positive dice and only 5 of them can be used on combat checks. Of these, Intense Focus and Frienzied attack use strain, Hunter's Quarry takes an action (or strain if you do it with the advanced talent), Counterstrike requires a specific set of circumstances, and the last one is True Aim. To me, True Aim looks very out of place when its peers require a strain payment or certain conditions.
Personally, my current houserule doc says it takes a strain per upgrade (don't need to take all upgrades, keep the boost die). If this is too much (but i doubt it) i might instead have no strain cost but have it also not give the boost die.
An important point to remember: you can, as a GM, give however many ranks of this or any other talent to your NPCs as well. Nothing wakes players up to the fact that combat monsters suck as much as encountering one themselves. If your players are breezing through combat you need to raise the difficulty level a little.
Wow wish Frenzied attack was better since a player wants a melee character. Seems like melee and brawl just don't have as many options yet or ever. We need some Tera Kasi or other martial arts specializations. Unless someone home brewed them?
You can move with Frenzied Attack or any other maneuvers can be used, along with Aim. Once you're aiming you have to attack next or you lose it. If you hold your aim from 1 round to the next you run the risk of losing it if you're damaged, plus your target might move out of range. The point being True Aim locks you in place and/or slows you down, Frenzied Attack isn't limited in that way.
There are also a few ways that you can loose access, or increase the cost of, your Maneuvers. Crits and Immobilize are the obvious ones.
I don't know of anyway to loose your incidentals.