After the penultimate quest of the base Descent 2 campaign I am feeling rather deflated as the Overlord.

It is clear that the Heroes will find the last quest a walkover.

A dragon is no threat to the party, at 10 health and 3 movement with a melee only attack. If the dragon gets close it is killed. If it is used to block it is wiped out by ranged fire.

The party found the plague worms more a challenge due to their burrow ability.

I am really disappointed that even a master dragon is little more than a hell hound that takes up a lot of space. I would hope that in the second half of the game I would have some epic monsters to challenge the heroes with. Now there will be a Gryvorn dragon in the last session which will be lucky to get a health of 18. I doubt I can get a monster off the map with a token in the first half of the quest so Gryvorn will be a measly 10.

The party have commented that they really enjoyed the tense close sessions of previous quests. I don't mind losing as overlord so long as I can make the party work hard for the victory. It is going to be a shame that the final quest will be such an anticlimax.

I have bought SoN to run for the next campaign, which looks very interesting. I also got Manor of Ravens for Christmas so I can up the ante with the Raven Flock. After all that investment I am concerned to find that I have lost enthusiasm for the game.

I think the following would make a dragon more epic:

- health of at least 15 (so it is at least thougher than a hero),

- reach of 2 or 3 spaces (at the moment the dragon with a long neck has less reach than an Ettin)

- and ranged attack (fire breathing), perhaps with a minus modifier to limit range.

As the Overlord player I am disappointed to feel that the last quest is something to get out of the way with none of the anticipation of the previous quests. I no longer feel that I am Pablo to 'play' the game.

Any tips for the Gryvorn scenario? Perhaps I can make Baron Zachareth commit suicide at the start and move on to a game of seven wonders for the rest of the evening.

Unfortunately, the Shadow Rune campaign is the most poorly designed of all the campaigns currently in the game. While I can't blame FFG for this because it was their first campaign and the balance was still being worked out, SR has the most quests which are lopsided one way or the other, making for some play sessions that can be dull. It also excessively focuses on 'race' type quests, making heroes like Syndrael and Jain extremely good/borderline essential.

The way I see it, if you as Overlord end up with the Gryvorn quest, then try to frame it as allowing the heroes to take a victory lap. They managed to win more quests than you did to get the privilege of taking this quest, so they get to bring their fancy end-game gear and skills to bear on easy prey.

Its even more of a cake-walk if they have any kind of immobilization abilities, as Gryvorn is reduced to an utterly useless punching bag.

You must identify if the heroes have any kinds of skills that can keep a single melee monster at bay or mitigate its effectiveness. Then, the best advice I can give is that you should hold onto all your cards in Encounter 1 and drag it out as long as possible. Then in Encounter 2, pin-point the one hero that is the greatest threat to Gryvorn (e.g. the hero with immobilization, or highest damage), and empty your entire hand into them all at once (Word of Misery, Dark Charm to isolate or attack-self, Dash, Frenzy, Dark Might, Fire Breath, Critical Blow). Follow up with Baron Zachareth with another frenzied attack, if possible. If the dice gods favor you and you can insta-kill one or two heroes immediately and catch them by surprise, you MIGHT have a chance.

What you really want in the Shadow Rune is to end up with the other finale, The Man Who Would Be King. Now *that* is a good finale for the Overlord. I have never lost it.

I don't know if you want to throw the quest as Overlord though. I'd say give it your all, knowing you will probably lose, and let your heroes enjoy their well-earned victory. Maybe give them a little scare with your big turn before the end!

You will get them next time by not letting them win so many earlier quests

If you want to provide a bit more challenge for the heroes, see if they'll agree to letting Gryvorn be immune to conditions. The first campaign of Descent I played ended with the Runemaster immobilizing Gryvorn each turn- he never had the opportunity to attack, because he never got within melee striking range.

I'll also second Charmy's recommendation- just play 'The Man Who Would Be King' instead. I have lost it as an OL, but it's quite a bit of fun.

If you want to provide a bit more challenge for the heroes, see if they'll agree to letting Gryvorn be immune to conditions. The first campaign of Descent I played ended with the Runemaster immobilizing Gryvorn each turn- he never had the opportunity to attack, because he never got within melee striking range.

Precisely. It is common for Descent parties with access to only base-game materials to have a Runemaster with Runic Sorcery. If so, then immobilize on Gryvorn is all but guaranteed, making the quest a foregone conclusion unless you can kill the Runemaster immediately by Dark Charming them into range of Gryvorn.

Alternatively, you can give Gryvorn one last hurrah by using Dark Remedy to clear the condition once.

Or like Zaltyre said, see if your heroes will be nice and make him immune.

I wouldn't count on it though!

FFG should errata that in...

Thanks guys,

The previous part 2 quests have been close, and I recognise the errors I made that allowed the heroes to turn it around.

This made the game really tense and the hero players clearly felt huge relief by stealing victory. They have really enjoyed it which is great for getting agreement to a SoN campaign.

Even they expressed surprise at how puny shadow dragons are in the last quest.

The Mage is a necromancer, and very effective he is too. Even the healer is proving effective now, although most players have at least one 'stun' weapon. So they can enjoy their victory lap.

After the finale we will probably have a break for a few weeks, starting a new role playing campaign.

I do like the look of the new Bilehall expansion having a mechanic to make Heroes getting knocked down have consequences. If it can be released in time. Even without it I am looking forward to the SoN campaign.

How about replacing Gwyvorn with Valyndra, using her base stats and them applying Gwyvorn's effects on her?

Or like Zaltyre said, see if your heroes will be nice and make him immune.

I wouldn't count on it though!

FFG should errata that in...

But yeah, I'm totally new to Descent although I've played a hell of a lot of computer games in similar settings. I too was really surprised how weak the Shadow Dragons are. Their only slightly impressive thing is how heroes need to use a surge to hit them in melee - but that would only really be worthy of a powerful creature if ranged attacks were very rare in the game. Sadly (from an OL point of view) that isn't the case. I know you're talking about a "special character" dragon here but I'm assuming it's still built on the same base.

Or like Zaltyre said, see if your heroes will be nice and make him immune. :)I wouldn't count on it though! FFG should errata that in...

Or if his friends don't check his cards, he could just lie and say it's immune. Hey, it's what a real OL would do!But yeah, I'm totally new to Descent although I've played a hell of a lot of computer games in similar settings. I too was really surprised how weak the Shadow Dragons are. Their only slightly impressive thing is how heroes need to use a surge to hit them in melee - but that would only really be worthy of a powerful creature if ranged attacks were very rare in the game. Sadly (from an OL point of view) that isn't the case. I know you're talking about a "special character" dragon here but I'm assuming it's still built on the same base.

I think it is fair to say that shadow dragons are a barn door - useful for blocking and easy to hit from a distance. I expect Gryvorn will not last long. I don't have other dragons like Valyndra. I note the ice worm in Descent v1 can swallow heroes stopping them from simply standing up. But the hero characters won't be getting back up in the finale anyway.

In Terrinoth dragons are clearly relatively fragile genteel creatures laughed at by Ettins, ridiculed by Kobolds and shame faced around Hell Hounds. In addition FF write cruel jokes about them being fearsome creatures of myth.

It's too bad you don't have other dragons because crypt dragons would also be a pretty good alternative.

Could be as simple as picking up the Valyndra Lieutenant Pack. Use her model and Agent card then apply Shadow Dragon abilities. Apply Gwyvorn's added effects and you have a great boss fight.

I played the heroes in this campaign/scenario and found the grand finale to be quite a disappointment as I killed the dragon on my 2nd turn with characters to spare. The OL did nothing wrong (well nothing actually) it was just wayyyyyy too easy, even if I hadn't had good dice rolls he would never have made it to the end of turn 3. We still enjoyed the campaign as a whole but since the finale only lasted about 15 mins it was definitely a letdown as we had set aside 3hours in the hope that it might be an epic.

I think that feeling is pretty classic for new players playing Descent. Big monsters are not epic as they would be in some other games. Lieutenants/Agents are, however, so I wouldn't say Descent cannot have its "epic" moments. But the bad guy is truly the overlord, only seconded by his lieutenants, and the monsters are just puppets, being Kobolds or Dragons.

So yeah it's completely normal that a geared up hero party can chew through a couple of Shadow Dragons. After all they get so many attacks. Once the heros are reasonably powerful you will find the most useful monsters are the ones with utility abilities and not the ones entirely geared towards combat. Defeating a hero is always a good thing and should not be taken lightly, but more often than not you need serious support from monsters with abilities making the heroes more vulnerable. Ultimateley what you want to do as the overlord is forcing the heroes to waste actions against your monsters.

As for the Finale, I also share the feeling that they are often poor endings to the campaign. Gryvorn is a formidable opponent on its own, but conditions can destroy him in no time, which I think is a big let down for what he is meant to represent for the campaign.

We had the first part of the Finale this week.

An easy victory for the heroes who spent time mopping up the search tokens (splig destroyed 2) and healing up before destroying the final ritual token.

I did manage to get a ritual token of the map with a monster opening the door so the half dragon could dash to the token pick up and exit.

The monsters I chose were hell hounds, fast movement (to open doors) and tough enough to not get wiped out in the first turn. All hell hounds were wiped in turn 2.

I was pleased to get a ritual token of the map which makes Gryvorn a little bit tougher and provides an extra attack action.

I also have reinforce which I plan to add a minion dragon for the nuisance cannon fodder value.

It is amusing to see how worried the hero players are about their characters potentially getting killed in the final session. Their attachment to the Heros (which are not role play characters after all) and worry over them getting killed should add some tension to the finale. We shall see how it goes.

Gryvorn at leasts presents a more dragon-like monster.

Very true about the fear of dying in the final encounter, that actually makes the Overlord presence stronger psychologically, and also because heroes try to be more careful and "waste" actions trying to re-group or search for potions while you get your monsters to activate. The possibility of dying is actually one of the best parts of the Finale in my opinion.

Gryvorn is brutal but only if he gets in range, which is the problem once heroes have found out how to kite him with help from conditions.

Guys, I just ended my 1st campaign as an OL and have some thoughts to share with you, precisely about the finale : Gryvorn Unleashed.

I opted to play with basic II, which is much more controlling like than the regular basic. That’s my game style.

I got pretty well owned the entire campaign (a lot of quests were close wins for the heroes though), winning just the interlude and a default rumor quest, giving me the Shadow Rune relic and an useless relic [i never had a chance to trigger. A monster group gains (surge): doom] respectively.

At this point, I realized that I would not be able to stop them at all, they had a lot of movement power and burst (Syndrael - Berserk, Jain - Bounty Hunter, Leoric - Geomancer and Avric - Disciple), besides, they were very well geared and kind of prepared to act II escalation. So, I predicted that I had no options unless accept I would be facing them on the finale with Gryvorn. Taking that fact as an inevitable truth, I concentrated all my efforts to keep Gryvorn alive until I had a chance to play my turn.

I had already started with Enchanter archetype, going with: elixir of stone, dragonbone pendant and Rune of the Phoenix. On the course of the campaign I also bought me some universal cards: dark remedy, dark resilience and diverse means, total of 8 exp points.

Ok, all that said, I had a plan to try some kind of tide change/comeback strategy. Since I had lost Alric and Belthir during act II quests, in my 1st encounter on the finale I had to play with two open groups. My strategy then was to make the encounter 1 last enough for me to buy enough cards for the encounter 2 to be a possible fight.

Encounter 1 were shorter than I expected, I got my 2 open groups slaughtered in the very 1st turn, with just 2 heroes acting. Even keeping Splig closing the door in the last room to earn me some extra rounds, I just managed to have around 9 - 10 cards in my hand. So, encounter 1 ended with no tokens in my play area.

At encounter 2, the heroes tried a burst of damage to end the fight in their 1st turn, and a immobilize/kite as a backup plan. There, a couple things shone at my side. I picked the Merick Farrow plot deck, and even considering it did not help me at all during the whole campaign, in the last fight, “Masques” plot card was essential to make Gryvorn avoid one attack in the heroes chain, breaking their burst along with “diverse means”, effectively negating 2 attacks. After Avric turn I could use an extra attack that wounded pretty bad Leoric (fire breathed for 7 damage).

So, I had my turn. With Gryvorn half alive, I activated Zacareth and after moving him I dominated Jain, moving her into a 4 square radius with the rest of group, within the grasp of Gryvorn fire breath.

Even immobilized, I had two options to make Gryvorn get into reach: 1) with “Blinding Speed” or 2) With “Dark remedy”, so I attacked their warrior with a “Mental error” + 2 dmg and a granted surge, dirt fighting, added +2 dmg from “Mystic might” and a good dice roll, and was able to burn them all 4 for 12 damage. Leoric was gone at that point. I saved me a surge to chain attack with flurry (extra attack with an extra green die) and dealt 15 dmg more to the rest of the party, a real overkill. End of campaign.

My advice for OL’s running Gryvorn Unleashed finale, keep the dragon alive! Cards like “diverse means” is a must, “Dark fortitude” from warlord archetype also helps a lot. I did not have problems with immobilize since you can either clean it or move with the help of dash/blinding speed.

Planning my strategy at the interlude was crucial, and predicting the action of the party during the campaign also helped a lot.

Guys, I just ended my 1st campaign as a OL and have some thoughts to share with you, precisely about the finale : Gryvorn Unleashed.

I opted to play with basic II, which is much more controlling like than the regular basic. That’s my game style.

I got pretty well owned the entire campaign (a lot of quests were close wins for the heroes though), winning just the interlude and a default rumor quest, giving me the Shadow Rune relic and an useless relic [i never had a chance to trigger. A monster group gains (surge): doom] respectively.

At this point, I realized that I would not be able to stop them at all, they had a lot of movement power and burst (Syndrael - Berserk, Jain - Bounty Hunter, Leoric - Geomancer and Avric - Disciple), besides, they were very well geared and kind of prepared to act II escalation. So, I predicted that I had no options unless accept I would be facing then on the finale with Gryvorn. Taking that fact as an inevitable truth, I concentrated all my efforts to keep Gryvorn alive until I had a chance to play my turn.

I had already started with Enchanter archetype, going with: elixir of stone, dragonbone pendant and Rune of the Phoenix. On the course of the campaign I also bought me some universal cards: dark remedy, dark resilience and diverse means, total of 8 exp points.

Ok, all that said, I had a plan to try some kind of tide change/comeback strategy. Since I had lost Alric and Belthir during act II quests, in my 1st encounter on the finale I had to play with two open groups. My strategy then was to make the encounter 1 last enough for me to buy enough cards for the encounter 2 to be a possible fight.

Encounter 1 were shorter than I expected, I got my 2 open groups slaughtered in the very 1st turn, with just 2 heroes acting. Even keeping Splig closing the door in the last room to earn me some extra rounds, I just managed to have around 9 - 10 cards in my hand. So, encounter 1 ended with no tokens in my play area.

At encounter 2, the heroes tried a burst of damage to end the fight in their 1st turn, and a immobilize/kite as a backup plan. There, a couple things shone at my side. I picked the Merick Farrow plot deck, and even considering it did not help me at all during the whole campaign, in the last fight, “Masques” plot card was essential to make Gryvorn avoid one attack in the heores chain, breaking the burst along with “diverse means”, effectively negating 2 attacks. After Avric turn I could use an extra attack that wounded pretty bad Leoric (fire breathed for 7 damage).

So, I had my turn. With Gryvorn half alive, I activated Zacareth and after moving him I dominated Jain, moving her into a 4 square radius with the rest of group, within the grasp of Gryvorn fire breath.

Even immobilized, I had two options to make Gryvorn get into reach: 1) with “Blinding Speed” or 2) With “Dark remedy”, so I attacked their warrior with a “Mental error” + 2 dmg and a granted surge, dirt fighting, added +2 dmg from “Mystic might” and a good dice roll, and was able to burn them all 4 for 12 damage. Leoric was gone at that point. I saved me a surge to chain attack with flurry (extra attack with an extra green die) and dealt 15 dmg more to the rest of the party, a real overkill. End of campaign.

My advice for OL’s running Gryvorn Unleashed finale, keep the dragon alive! Cards like “diverse means” is a must, “Dark fortitude” from warlord archetype also helps a lot. I did not have problems with immobilize since you can either clean it or move with the help of dash/blinding speed.

Planning my strategy at the interlude was crucial, and predicting the action of the party during the campaign also helped a lot.

Nice comeback, looks like the heroes were too convinced in their victory:) Spreading out could have stopped the awesome synergy of your cards/ abilities.

Ty Ceasar, I hope it helps the players to have in mind their job isn't limited to a quest, the campaign is the main concern. I got sad with all those loses, but the permanent KO in the finale always fascinated me. So, losing quests really isnt a big deal, but I cant deny it helps a lot in the end.

Honestly, I really wasnt expecting a win in the last fight, but I knew they had to be sharp, or else I could bring some hell to them.

That's the deal with descent, it doesn't matter how many quests you win or lose...it's what you do in the Finale that counts.

Losing every quest puts you at a disadvantage, but you still have a chance.

Never give up! Never surrender!

The Finale!

After a weeks delay we closed the campaign this evening.

Gryvorn proved far more deadly than I expected.

For clarification - The heroes were Leofric of the book (necromancer), Syndrael (Knight), Avric (Disciple), Jain (Wildlander).

In the first turn the heroes gathered search tokens (yielding healing potions and a random shop item - Glaive from Trollfens). Except Jain who used her heroic ability to move close to Gryvorn, fire off two shots with the Trueshot bow and retreat round a corner.

In the first overlord turn I played Dark Charm on Syndrael who brought Avric down to half health. The Baron moved fired a shot and missed.

I moved Gryvorn forwards and was able to Reach Jain causing potentially a lot of damage which got converted to full fatigue plus using all defences available. I then played Reinforce at the end of the turn to place a minion shadow dragon on the map (behind Gryvorn).

Then Leofric raised a zombie which was sent to attack Gryvorn- causing no damage, then army of undeath which caused no damage. Avric used radiant light to heal himself and Jain for two health and cause two damage to Gryvorn. I then spent my token for Gryvorn to attack Jain hitting her for 11 damage, pierce 2 before she could reset her defences on her turn. Hero down! Importantly the hero with big hitting ranged damage and the ability to cause overlord cards to be discarded.

This shocked the party and I expected that to be the high point.

Syndrael then fatigue advanced hitting Gryvorn for a lot of damage and stun, missing on the second attack.

Overlord second turn - Gryvorn retreated behind the shadow Dragon - the baron fired an ineffective attack and the shadow dragon stayed put rather than closing with Syndrael and getting hit by Guard.

Without Jain the party were unable to rely on ranged attacks wiping out the shadow dragon. Avric used a less effective ranged weapon to get the shadow dragon down to 2 remaining health. The zombie missed the Shadow dragon due to the Shadow ability. Syndrael then closed on the shadow dragon using his heroic feat bring Avric with her. Syndrael killed the shadow dragon and advanced onto Gryvorn causing a lot of damage with his first attack, but missing on his second. Gryvorn was now down to 3 remaining health.

On the final overlord turn Gryvorn attacked playing Wild Energy (unstable Forces Plot deck) to gain an additional surge at the risk of being defeated if no damage was caused by the attack. With 3 surges the attack meant Syndrael, Avric and the Zombie were hit for 10 fire damage, pierce 2. Avric was felled and the Zombie dropped into a burning heap. Syndrael was badly scorched, surviving on 1 remaining health, used her Deflecting shield to further damage Gryvorn who was on 2 health.

The Baron then closed on Syndrael for a melee attack slaying the third hero. In her dying moments Syndrael used her Stalwart ability to land the death blow on Gryvorn.

So in the end a lonely Leofric fled the burning castle to recant how his brave companions gave their lives to protect Terrinoth.

All players were left enthused and I was very happy to have three Hero scalps after a very tense last session. I was pleased the heroes won the campaign after all their successes - a total party kill would have felt wrong.

Gryvorn was definitely Not a mere Shadow Dragon.

I had expected the party to use Syndrael as a guard while Jain used ranged attacks to kill Gryvorn and the baron with Avric healing everyone and Leafric sending in a steady wave of zombies.

Luckily Jain allowed me an opening which I was able to exploit. The reinforce card really came into its own, with the party agreeing that Gryvorn was clearly labelled a Master Shadow Dragon for the quest.

A long post basically to say that the finale was not the whitewash I had feared and we really enjoyed it.

Gryvorn is a fine combatant, and he's one of the few monsters that can really hold his own against a wave or two of hero attacks. I maintain that his biggest weakness is just that he is a melee monster and not immune to conditions- so if the heroes have a reliable way to immobilize him, he's pretty useless.

I strongly agree with Zaltyre. You need to make Gryvorn immune to conditions or it becomes a trivial win for the heroes. I feel strongly that they should errata that one. In fact immobilize breaks a lot of quests in that campaign. I would recommend you never play that one again and instead play heirs of blood or in any except the base one.