(IM DISCUSSING SPOILERS FROM NOT ONLY TFA BUT ALSO SEVERAL BOOKS AND COMICS, THIS IS A MASSIVE MULTIMEDIA SPOILER ALERT)

Ok, so bear with me. This is regarding Snokes. I haven't slept in about 24 hours, and sometimes things make sense more then, like the barriers between logic and chaos break down, and sometimes I see things.

Ok, so in the movie we see Snokes is a hologram. We see Wren ask for training. Those two things are *pretty much the only things we know.

I've been throwing myself headfirst into the EU again recently, with the understanding that everything in TFA is stolen from somewhere. For example, the Han and Chewie are setting up the charges in the huge, multi level bowl shaped thing in the climax(?) of the film, I thought in the theater "Oh, there setting charges around the Spartii clone tanks". The closer I looked, the more things I noticed, but that's a story for another time.

Anyway, so I was thinking about Snokes as I reread Dark Empire and I, Jedi, and think I figured it out. Remember Bodo Baaz, the old Jedi master that who's personality was encoded into the Holocron that Luke stole from the reborn emperor? Anyway, it turns out that Baaz was actually called and was a student of Exar Kun and was working *against Luke, corrupting several of his students before they figured out what was going in. That's when it clicked.

Snokes is a Holocron. There's a reason he shows up in the movie as a hologram... That because the dude is just a hologram! Think about it. He would have been able to train Little Wren in the ways of the force. He would have access to immense knowledge and, if made correctly, be able to do anything, mentally, that his pattern person would have been able to do. Here's the thing, this isn't a Jedi Holocron, its a Sith holocron, an ancient artifact. (Think like a President Eden thing from Fallout 3)

Here's the thing, what if snokes isn't even a name? What if snokes is ab acronym? Something like "Sith normal operations knowledge education system" or something like that (I'm not great with acronyms and dog tired right now.)

Anyone else have thoughts on these lines? Anyone have any thoughts on my theory? Does this just sound like the ravings of a sleep deprived madman?

Huh.

First of all it's Ren not Wren. (He's not a little birdie.)

I don't think JJ, Kasdan, and Ardnt gave any sorts of craps about any EU content.

That said, the idea that Snoke is only a holgram, contained within a sith holocron is a really fascinating idea. I like it.

I find it unlikely that it will turn out to be the case with Snoke, but I really like that idea. I don't see any existing evidence so far that disproves that theory either (unlike the Plaugeis theory which has been shot down time and time again.)

It would also explain Serkis' description of Snoke being vulnerable.

I like it. Don't think it's gunna be that way, but I like it.

Snoke is Tarkin.

Until proven otherwise I'm adhering to the theory that Snoke is 5" tall and inside BB-8.

It's hard to take this seriously when you are purposefully typing names and putting down the movie.

Commence trolltown.

The writers of the movie aren't as clever as you think.

The writers of the movie aren't as clever as you think.

I'd say that about some of the audience members not the writers.

To the extent that crew are to be trusted I've heard that Andy Serkis said that Snoke was 7' tall which (probably) wouldn't be compatible with this.

To the extent that crew are to be trusted I've heard that Andy Serkis said that Snoke was 7' tall which (probably) wouldn't be compatible with this.

The question is, was he just talking about his interactions in the movie? Sure, in the film he appears to be 7' tall, and if he were to have live acted those scenes, he would have had to have actually *been built up to that size for a prosthetic to work. I remember he said those things when talking about why they went CG for all of his scenes and not makeup, even though the moviemakers boasted a return to practical effects. This was also before anyone *knew Snokes was just a hologram.

It's hard to take this seriously when you are purposefully typing names and putting down the movie.

The movie was crap, but the puzzle still exists.

The writers of the movie aren't as clever as you think.

To the extent that crew are to be trusted I've heard that Andy Serkis said that Snoke was 7' tall which (probably) wouldn't be compatible with this.

The question is, was he just talking about his interactions in the movie? Sure, in the film he appears to be 7' tall, and if he were to have live acted those scenes, he would have had to have actually *been built up to that size for a prosthetic to work. I remember he said those things when talking about why they went CG for all of his scenes and not makeup, even though the moviemakers boasted a return to practical effects. This was also before anyone *knew Snokes was just a hologram.

His hologram was well over 7' in the movie which would mean that he was talking about the character in general.

Nope. Go get some sleep.

While it is an interesting theory, I really think it should be noted that the first time we saw Palpatine, he was a hologram. I think it's just following that pattern.

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

As I said, it was disproved. Two days ago Andy Serkis said there was no correlation between the two

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

So how is defeating the sith bringing balance to the force?

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

So how is defeating the sith bringing balance to the force?

Lucas has described the sith as a cancer on the force. They use the force for their own means, rather than allowing the force to use them, which is what Qui-Gon advocated to the Jedi Council. Since the Jedi Council was also starting to consider themselves the masters of the force rather than serving 'the living force', they were weakening as well. By Anakin destroying the corrupted form of the Jedi Order AND removing the 'cancer' from the force, he allowed the force to regain balance. Luke was not dogmatic, he thought outside the box, and ultimately he was more a servant of the force than obi-wan or yoda had been in the prequels. Balance does not mean equal influence of good vs bad (again, according to Lucas). It means the Force being free from corruption.

The Jedi never viewed themselves as a corruption, thus their misinterpretation of what the prophecy meant.

interesting

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

So how is defeating the sith bringing balance to the force?

I saw it as there used to be thousands of Jedi and a few Sith. Post Vader there's just a handful on both sides of the force.

Thus... balance.

Nevermind, I had a plagueis Theory in this comment and then I looked up and saw that it was already mentioned as disproved.

Anakin WAS the chosen one, not Luke. He was conceived by the force, and he brought balance to the force. Those were the stated criteria, and they fit Anakin. He didn't do what the Jedi expected the chosen one to do, but he still fulfilled the prophecy... Personally.

So how is defeating the sith bringing balance to the force?

I saw it as there used to be thousands of Jedi and a few Sith. Post Vader there's just a handful on both sides of the force.

Thus... balance.

Post Vader there were NO sith in the movies. Just Luke. But from what I have gleaned from Lucas's interviews and such, Qui-Gon was supposed to be the 'Jedi ideal'. He listened to the force, broke with the Jedi's dogma if the force led him down another road, and was the first to retain his personality after death. His focus was on listening to the force and being it's servant. Although Yoda was powerful and 'good', he was arrogant, as stated by himself in AOTC and by Palpatine in ROTS. He, Mace Windu, and the rest of the Jedi put the Republic and the Jedi Order before the force, and used the force to accomplish their goals. (for instance, when the chosen one comes along, they want to exclude him and mold him rather than to respect him) They are incapable of returning from the dead until Qui-Gon retrains Yoda. Even after Qui-Gon's intervention though, Yoda and Obi-Wan continue to view Vader as irredeemable (thinking in absolutes), and only Luke's compassion (the primary characteristic Qui-Gon embodied) allows Luke to redeem Vader, and allow him to bring about his prophesied destiny. No sith sucking the force into darkness, no old-school jedi moulding it to their will. Balance, as in neutrality.

wow....some philosophy happening here..... ...I will need to dust off my old college Phil-101 books to get into this!