I'm not as sold on the Punishing One. Even though it is a PWT, I don't think it is going to make a big splash unless it can regenerate shields or mitigate damage consistently.

I dunno, Dengar's 3 die primary weapon double tap every round is a pretty big deal, especially at PS9 with Glitterstim available. I can see him coming on as a strong Scum large ship, but the real trouble I see with it is that Scum just don't have as strong a set of options to field alongside him. A z swarm could be OK, but Scum lack really competitive high-PS aces for the Decimator Phantom, Dash Corran, Han Poe type builds.

I'm really looking forward to the Punishing One though, I think Dengar's going to be good.

Dengar should be good yes, but please note that:

- His ability means gunner is probably not the best choice for him (a staple of PWTs).

-Barring any reveals for defensive scum crew/astros he will be fairly fragile compared to other PWTs.

-his dial willl most likely suck compared to yts or even decis.

- While 2greens is better against TLT than 1 he will still die fairly easy to TLT spam.

2 Waves ago he wouldve been a big deal, now i dont think so.

Yeah that white 2 sloop is terrible!

TLTs are an interesting argument actually. If he has them in arc he gets a second shot on them after they;ve dealt a single damage, which when you're talking about Y wings or HWKs can potentially inflict a nasty crit on them or even kill them between shots, especialy if he can get in range 1. Also worth noting that the second attack doesn't have to be a primary weapon, so you could potentially hit a Y wing with a torpedo after it's fired one shot of the TLT which has a much bigger chance of a strong impact, albeit it's not cheap.

A lot does depend on the rest of his dial though, of course. I'd be surprised if it's assymetrical in anything other than colour, but it remains to be seen of course.

Using Xizor as the second ace is eminently questionable because his pilot ability is then of highly dubious value. You really need some chaff to go with that ability.

I wonder about the Adap- card. There's two of it, and twos are generally fixy cards (Mk II, Autothrusters, Twin Laser Turrets), so maybe it's a cannon mod? Something that would make taking the Tractor Beam on the Mist Hunter make sense, and not just be a title tax?

I'm curious how the Mist Hunter will actually equip a Tractor Beam, you'd expect a cannon slot usually.

They get a title card giving them barrel roll and forcing you to take a cannon (it might actually force you to take tractor beam specifically)

I wonder about the Adap- card. There's two of it, and twos are generally fixy cards (Mk II, Autothrusters, Twin Laser Turrets), so maybe it's a cannon mod? Something that would make taking the Tractor Beam on the Mist Hunter make sense, and not just be a title tax?

I'm curious how the Mist Hunter will actually equip a Tractor Beam, you'd expect a cannon slot usually.

They get a title card giving them barrel roll and forcing you to take a cannon (it might actually force you to take tractor beam specifically)

It definitely does force you to take a Tractor Beam.

It's also unique which means only one G1A per side will have Barrel Roll Scum get a bad deal.

Maybe VI Zuckuss will pair well with Dengar?

Unless the G1A has an amazing dial I'm not seeing it. It fits in in terms of points nicely, but Zuckuss' ability doesn't give much in the way of arcdodging ability, durability, or action multiplication, so keeping up with the likes of Poe, Corran, Soontir and Whisper will be a fairly major challenge.

I just hope the Tractor Beam does something extra on the Mist Hunter, because otherwise it's basically just spending a point for barrel roll, which is nice, but I doubt it would ever fire the tractor beam rather than its primary. Maybe at range 3 if Dengar was getting a double shot on that target or something I guess.

Unless the G1A has an amazing dial I'm not seeing it. It fits in in terms of points nicely, but Zuckuss' ability doesn't give much in the way of arcdodging ability, durability, or action multiplication, so keeping up with the likes of Poe, Corran, Soontir and Whisper will be a fairly major challenge.

I just hope the Tractor Beam does something extra on the Mist Hunter, because otherwise it's basically just spending a point for barrel roll, which is nice, but I doubt it would ever fire the tractor beam rather than its primary. Maybe at range 3 if Dengar was getting a double shot on that target or something I guess.

Maybe im just misunderstanding your wording, but Dengar's ability doesnt work if he arc dodges the other guy because he wont get shot at. And youre leaving Dengar very vulnerable if you use Expose. Plus it certainly wont be easy to arc dodge the guy and have him in arc at the same time, depending on the ships dial of course.

Dengar's ability seems to encourage jousting to a degree, but PWTs are always poor jousters. Dont get me wrong, his ability looks very strong, i just dont think it will be OP or anything like that.

I know if he's arc dodging then he will have a hard time keeping someone in arc. I think it's more that he can dodge some people's arc and then have other in front of him. Or....use the S-loop to get behind someone. I do admit that I keep wanting to use an action Barrel Roll or maybe use Engine Upgrade to boost, but if he is doing that, then he can't Expose. So, I do agree that it should probably be used very situationally.

I do think besides Expose that he could use his actions to maneuver a bit to get into a sweet spot, especially with a white S-loop. After that, Dengar can BR or Boost. It could be quite cool to get out of someone's arc, but then get in R1 to fire on him. Yes, he wouldn't use his ability, but he isn't getting shot at!

He would probably want PTL is what I'm thinking. That way he has the ability to ensure someone's in arc.

If you are able to either get it so that Dengar is only jousting with another ace....or perhaps at the end game, I can see that the enemy might not want to actually fire at him! Let's say that just Soontir (Stealth, Focus, and Evade) is jousting with Dengar (Focus and TL). Let's even give it R1. Dengar will get two shots at Soontir while Soontir will only get one back. It's a bad spot to be in.

Using Xizor as the second ace is eminently questionable because his pilot ability is then of highly dubious value. You really need some chaff to go with that ability.

I agree that Dengar isn't the best to trigger Xizor's ability, but....you don't have to use Xizor for his ability. If there is a complaint that Scum don't have enough high PS arc dodgers, you can use Xizor, but perhaps not use his special ability. Yes, it would be good to use his special ability, but you can get a good arc dodging PS 9 ace if you feel you really need it with Scum.

Then again, with Dengar high PS, I could easily see a couple of TLT's work with him to ensure those pesky arc dodgers are taken care of.

about half the T-beam reference card is obscured by Bren and the other bombers in the Imp Veterans picture

there's going to be more to it, because it is utter ass at this point unless you're a Tie/D defender

also, on Xizor, you don't need fodder to trigger his ability. As long as you're not shunting damage to something expensive and squish, such as another Viper, it's well worth using to keep the prince alive. Thugs of any turret and Slavers make great soaks for Xizor, for example

the G-1A will also make a great Xizor sponge

Dengar, though...I wouldn't. Too many points for too little hull.

Then again, why would you want to fly something as boring and uninspired as scum Cheri + Soonts?

Unless the G1A has an amazing dial I'm not seeing it. It fits in in terms of points nicely, but Zuckuss' ability doesn't give much in the way of arcdodging ability, durability, or action multiplication, so keeping up with the likes of Poe, Corran, Soontir and Whisper will be a fairly major challenge.

I just hope the Tractor Beam does something extra on the Mist Hunter, because otherwise it's basically just spending a point for barrel roll, which is nice, but I doubt it would ever fire the tractor beam rather than its primary. Maybe at range 3 if Dengar was getting a double shot on that target or something I guess.

It's also quite possible the entire effect of the tractor beam has not been spoiled yet.

It's definitely the case that the entire text of the card hasn't been revealed yet, but even if it does, unless it makes tractor tokens cause damage, giving up one of the two or three damaging shots you get on a two-ship list in exchange for anything is pretty questionable IMO whatever else it might do.

ooh, careful with that

if T-beams don't deal damage but, say, drag enemy ships closer to you (potentially onto obstacles ), it could well be worth it

sacrificing an attack for, currently, just -1 agility is pretty crap atm. Tie/Ds don't have to give up their primary, at least

Then again, why would you want to fly something as boring and uninspired as scum Cheri + Soonts?

Because it wins games? assuming it will be good enough to win regularly though.

ooh, careful with that

if T-beams don't deal damage but, say, drag enemy ships closer to you (potentially onto obstacles ), it could well be worth it

sacrificing an attack for, currently, just -1 agility is pretty crap atm. Tie/Ds don't have to give up their primary, at least

Depends how many other dice you're chucking. Getting a single tractor token on and then throwing 4 or 5 more attacks against the -1 agility might be worth it.

Losing one damaging attack and then getting maybe 2 in return seems unlikely to be.

Dammit! I'm late to the party but I'll say it anyway.. dengar + expose will burn down a tlt a turn at R1. Don't play their game of attrition.

Seriously though I'm thinking this ship will be viable, maybe even better without the title.

Then again, why would you want to fly something as boring and uninspired as scum Cheri + Soonts?

Because it wins games? assuming it will be good enough to win regularly though.

not anymore it don't

the game has thankfully evolved past the point where that dreck is the go-to option. The good ole (and very much needed) changes to large ship scoring solved that problem, and it's something jumpy will have to contend with as well

G-1a, obviously, doesn't care at all

Unless the G1A has an amazing dial I'm not seeing it. It fits in in terms of points nicely, but Zuckuss' ability doesn't give much in the way of arcdodging ability, durability, or action multiplication, so keeping up with the likes of Poe, Corran, Soontir and Whisper will be a fairly major challenge.

I just hope the Tractor Beam does something extra on the Mist Hunter, because otherwise it's basically just spending a point for barrel roll, which is nice, but I doubt it would ever fire the tractor beam rather than its primary. Maybe at range 3 if Dengar was getting a double shot on that target or something I guess.

Zuckuss himself might not give you extra actions, but Advanced Sensors + PTL + K4 security droid + Barrel Roll means that in close-range furballs it's pretty easy to get a lot of places with a lot of tokens for offense and defense, and not really care about bumping. Just a single speed of green banks and a couple straights would be enough. With a Cloaking Device, you you have an AGI boost for the turn when you find yourself in arc of a lot of shots (usually early in the game, when closing).

Then again, why would you want to fly something as boring and uninspired as scum Cheri + Soonts?

Because it wins games? assuming it will be good enough to win regularly though.

not anymore it don't

Remeber we're talking about Scum, which is severely lacking in competitive lists. It doesn't need to be something OP, just not strictly worse than Brobots and will be popular.

Then again, why would you want to fly something as boring and uninspired as scum Cheri + Soonts?

Because it wins games? assuming it will be good enough to win regularly though.

not anymore it don't

Or maybe it will, depending on dials and the still unspoiled cards.

Remeber we're talking about Scum, which is severely lacking in competitive lists. It doesn't need to be something OP, just not strictly worse than Brobots and will be popular.

you mean thug life?

Scum has plenty of powerful options, just no one to play them at that level

Scum's M.O as a faction is "modify the **** out of your dice/ignore your sh*tty dice"

Aggressors are the poster boys of this, rocking out thrusters+ stims + crackshot + FCS + insurance from IG-88B

Xizor also rocks this with thrusters, FCS from Virago, and his ability

then we get things like r4 thugs, crackshot + stim blacksun aces, gunner + bossk Slaver etc.

and now the G-1A, which can pack either FCS or k4 security, and the Jumpmaster, which also rocks R4 and guidance chips for fully modded ordnance or primaries. We're not even counting the 4 unspoiled scum crew + GONK! and what they may bring

I'm sure they'll fit in somewhere, just not as 2-ships

2-ships were a boring exploitation of a crap scoring and match-making system of which only brobots have really survived (plus the occasional palp deci w/whisper). They are no longer the default competitive loadout, as the game is actually quite balanced and diverse now

Unless the G1A has an amazing dial I'm not seeing it. It fits in in terms of points nicely, but Zuckuss' ability doesn't give much in the way of arcdodging ability, durability, or action multiplication, so keeping up with the likes of Poe, Corran, Soontir and Whisper will be a fairly major challenge.

I just hope the Tractor Beam does something extra on the Mist Hunter, because otherwise it's basically just spending a point for barrel roll, which is nice, but I doubt it would ever fire the tractor beam rather than its primary. Maybe at range 3 if Dengar was getting a double shot on that target or something I guess.

It's also quite possible the entire effect of the tractor beam has not been spoiled yet.

It's definitely the case that the entire text of the card hasn't been revealed yet, but even if it does, unless it makes tractor tokens cause damage, giving up one of the two or three damaging shots you get on a two-ship list in exchange for anything is pretty questionable IMO whatever else it might do.

ooh, careful with that

if T-beams don't deal damage but, say, drag enemy ships closer to you (potentially onto obstacles ), it could well be worth it

sacrificing an attack for, currently, just -1 agility is pretty crap atm. Tie/Ds don't have to give up their primary, at least

I agree it needs something else to be even as competitive as an Ion Cannon. BUT, I also believe that there is more text.

I personally think it'd be cool if there's some auxiliary effect to having more tokens than evade dice. Slowing your next maneuver, maybe? Could give a reason to TB any ship repeatedly or to use it against a Decimator or Ghost. Or maybe it further attacks are treated as R1 or it otherwise adds an attack die? Might not make it Tier 1, but might give it what it needs to be another interesting tool in the toolbox.

Scum has plenty of powerful options, just no one to play them at that level

Scum has plenty of powerful options, just no one to play them at that level

Really? Most of the time, the Scum players that place best (worlds included) are Brobots and Thug Life players. I'm sure it all is just

Yes, but that doesn't mean there aren't other options that are also good. It's part of the group meme about what is good and what isn't, or the closed mindedness of tournament players. Just because someone hasn't flown it at high levels doesn't mean it isn't good. There's a thread that's not too old about how someone heard a podcast about how the only viable option is Bro Bots. He posted his successful list and how he's been winning tournaments with it.

I think the trick is to look at what's been taken to Worlds and didn't do well. The problem is that not too many people took too many other options than Thug Life and Bro Bot.

There were some fascinating Scum squads that were doing well at Regionals.

Scum has plenty of powerful options, just no one to play them at that level

Really? Most of the time, the Scum players that place best (worlds included) are Brobots and nore recently Thug Life players. I'm sure they all jyst happen to prefer these lists out of the plethora of equally competitive options availableto them, right?

yes

because those are the most reliable, dice retardant options possible (and sometimes even those fall through, poor triple K-wing ) made to last through the grueling number of rounds + skill levels those players have to face; also probably what they've practiced the most with

let's face it, the grand majority of competition does not take place at worlds, and you don't need to jump through the hoops (and the dice) that these guys do to place well at events you may attend

The real balance of the game isn't in the tier 1 squads, but the tier 1.5 and 2 squads.

"tier 1 squads" is also a bit of a loaded supposition

this game isn't 40k where you can steamroll with the proper comp and enough dice

Brobots, for example, don't scare me in the slightest unless there's someone at the helm who understands who to fly them. Then they're ******* terrifying

TLT spam is an even better example. Low PS Ys are just food unless the one flying them knows how to position not just the individual elements, but the entire squadron relative to one another. Otherwise, it's just about the easiest thing to concentrate fire and then doughnut dive the stragglers; only Z-95s or X-wings are stiffer or easier to predict

"tier 1 squads" is also a bit of a loaded supposition

this game isn't 40k where you can steamroll with the proper comp and enough dice

Brobots, for example, don't scare me in the slightest unless there's someone at the helm who understands who to fly them. Then they're ******* terrifying

TLT spam is an even better example. Low PS Ys are just food unless the one flying them knows how to position not just the individual elements, but the entire squadron relative to one another. Otherwise, it's just about the easiest thing to concentrate fire and then doughnut dive the stragglers; only Z-95s or X-wings are stiffer or easier to predict

I think Tier 1 is a bit different in this context than Warhammer. It's not that the lists are so overtly powerful that any kid with the cash can win with them. It's more about it being one of those lists that reduces variance on dice. Think Han Solo w/ Luke crew as the most extreme example. It's the idea that if you are planning on playing 8+ games in one day then you want to reduce the chance that your dice go cold too often. Most high level tournament lists are built to just reduce luck as something that can wreck your game.

Also, I think the majority of the tournament players point to the high level tables for what lists to try. If it's not at the high tables than it can't be good. The problem is that someone has to actually try something first. Only how many people go to Worlds? So...only the top 16 out of those people's lists are going to be competitive? It's a really limiting way to look at the game. Also, if you aren't going to Worlds, does that mean a list that might not have the redundancy built into it is a bad list for your Store Championship of 20 people? Hardly.