UFS is not doing well.

Shane's crew leaving the game is only one small bit of evidence. I'd like an honest poll here. How many of you have more than 4 regulars in your playgroup? I'm not talking, "drops in from time to time." I'm talking, "shows up specifically to play UFS at least once a week."

My playgroup has 2 regulars, and 3 or 4 more who drop in occasionally. From what I've heard, the former GMI playgroup is in worse shape.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game. I think the cards are finally moving in the right direction under Hata (though I haven't seen a full set yet, so this is only a preliminary assessment). But a good game is not enough to sell a good game.

I think UFS is severely lacking--more than anything else--any form of decent marketing.

So far UFS has prospered (insofar as it has--this is obviously debatable) because it had four things going for it:

1. Penny Arcade gave it the initial plug and license, which was essentially a HUGE advertisement to the key demographic: gamers who play video games. It's been years since the PA guys have supported the game.
2. It was new. CCGers love new things. New sets, new cards, etc. It's exciting. This is why most of us will at least take the time to learn the basic rules of a new CCG and look at the cards. Folks saw that UFS did some interesting mechanical stuff and had a different pace from stuff like Magic, and so its newness brought a lot of players in for a while.
3. It had popular licenses. Except even with SC IV and SF 4, these licenses aren't as popular as they once were. With the death of the video arcade, fewer of today's young adults remember these fighters with the same passion that we 27+-year-olds do. And us older folks are getting busy with jobs, families, higher than higher education, etc.
4. The community. UFS brought some really great people together. Except, as I just mentioned, a lot of us are having a hard time keeping the time and the money together to stay with the game. The dwindling playgroups make it feel less like a community and more like a failed cult. STG, for all their (many, many) faults, helped keep the community motivated by participating frequently and directly in the forums. But now we don't even have a decent set of forums to converse in. The old FFG forums are working better and faster today than these new ones. In fact, why don't I just get into this fully...

I will likely not be logging onto these forum again for a long time. Using them is a miserable experience.

• I assume it's some combination of my resolution and lack of widescreen, but I can't see all the words on one line of this text box at the same time. I can't read a post and also know who wrote it, without using extensive back and forth scrollbar action.
• These forums are slow. REALLY slow. I have a high speed connection. The old forums don't give me this kind of lag. I expect speed in internet use.
• These forums are a pain to navigate. The general UI was poorly designed, although this is exacerbated by the size issue.
• I have no problem with the Spanish language, in general. I can read it, actually. But these forums support a game that is only published in English, and are presumably aimed at a primarily English-literate community. (It is my understanding that most of the FFGames are aimed at English speakers as well.) The Spanish popping up from time to time, even in the URLs, shows a level of unprofessionalism. This site does not cater to its audience, and that's a problem.

In short, I'm out guys. I'll still be buying some of Set 11. I'd still love to see you guys and play some UFS, but I'm not sure it'll happen. I'm worried the game is dying, and it has to be FFG (not the players) that revives it. At any rate, I won't be hanging around here any more. It's not worth the trouble.

ARMed_PIrate said:

Don't remind me of the sweet innocence now gone that was the STG French forum.

It just hurts too much man.

It's pretty tough at GMI. For the record I only have 1 regular player as of now. Not enough people to run tourneys, but at least there's no such thing as worrying about the best deck. I'm probably not going to be a running a prerelease since there aren't enough people and it wouldn't be worth it for the store. Huggie leaving seems to have been a domino effect on people. It's not pretty I tell you that.

Well I don't know about the rest of you guys out there in UFS land but it is not dead from where I'm sitting up here in Green Bay, WI (it's not thriving either). We have at least 4-6 players every Thurs. and Sat. the only place we are really are hurting is that the sales of boosters has significantly decreased over the past few months, but I think that has more to do with the economy than with the games itself.

I don't understand where all this nay saying is coming from to be honest. We have seen a great improvement in the state of the game in the last 2 months with FFG's and Co. willingness to take the game and bring it to a far more playable meta than it has been in over the past 6 months at least. They have finally JUST begun to get material that hasn't been cast off to them from their predicessor Sabertooth games, and can now show us the direction that they are going to take the game in the next couple of months.

It may be fine for you, but for many of us it's downright depressing. Each location has their own circumstances, but in the general concensous in the stores in my area is that the game isn't going to be what it used to be. While FFG may be starting to make their own material and future plans, for some places it is much too late for that to make a difference. Games are supposed to be fun, but if the game isn't people will go to games that do offer the fun factor.

Zero Cross said:

Guys this is starting to look a lot like the "A Message from Chubbs" thread, which has extended itself to over 4 pages.

Antigoth said:

The simpsons have Lenny, UFS have Chubbs

I apologize for bringing up the issue again. I definately understand Pirates concerns. I play in a store that isn't too far from his and have seen the same problems. All further comments will be posted where appropiate.

Only once a month do I not get enough players to run a tournament. As in, once a month, I HAVE to play to have 4 people.

Once a month I have more than 4 players (more than 5 if one includes me). Usually I have exactly four.

I am down to one gaming store that is ordering product AFAIK. Another still might carry it, but I haven't had the time to get out there.

Dwindling, sure. Some advertisement support on FFGs behalf would be good. Some announcements and definitive action regarding regionals would be good. A scout forum would be good.

Good luck FFG in a 'recession'!

I'm still buying a few packs here and there and play to continue to talk about the game and promote it casually. Little incentive and output of 'stuff' from corporate makes me feel less motivated to go all gung-ho and drive 40 minutes to demo the game in some small city like I used to.

But regardless GAME ON!

Zi Mei is broken! WOOOO!!!!

Antigoth said:

Yeah he didn't see that thread before posting his (otherwise it'd have went there as is said in the other thread).

Although technically this could be used to air grievances with the forum and it's denizens.

I am now only getting 1-4 players usually. There are three others that show up every now and then besides the main 4 players. Usually when they show up no one even wants to play and besides me no one really even buys any product. We can't even run a pre-release for the next sets coming out because the store owner said he won't buy 4 of each box because he has hardly sold any from the last one (which is a lie because I'm 100% at least half if not more was sold, but whatever). I've tried to get new players but CCGs have died out in this area over the past 5 years, even the big games like Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh aren't all that big around here. I'm going to run events for this month but I'm afraid that might be it for me and UFS here in my area.

As far as the forums go, yes they are very slow for everyone. But they are fixing it and by next week load times should be normal.

My group rarely has more then 5 people, and often it's only 2-3 (myself included). Even the store owner almost never plays anymore.

TBH honest this latest forum change doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Lack of contact or communication from FFG certainly isn't doing much to inspire it either.

They really need some sort of boost to the game, something to draw in fresh blood, but I don't think Shadowar is going to be it. More then anything else, I think the Penny-Arcade license was one of the biggest assets UFS had, and it's a real shame that it wasn't held on to with a little more determination.

boot2dahead said:

QFT, Green Bay may not be the biggest or the most important but we are pretty stable, mostly due to Jeff being an awesome scout <3. And me being pretty boss at life in general

I can understand people's frustration with UFS at the moment, its hard to watch as a game ebbs, but it will eventually flow and prosper(hopefully).

@JDubs: Gnome runs events on Thursday and Saturday you should really come up sometime! I know it may be a bit expensive with gas but we would love to see you guys playin! This goes for anyone in Wisconsin who reads this, come out and play!

here is a random view from the old UK forums

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ufsforums/posts/list/15683.page

it is dieing in the UK too

It really isn't dying in the UK as far as I can see, and if you read the post on the old UK forums far enough, you'll see that a lot of us have all said contrary to what was said in regards to that thread. In Colchester, I've actually had to TONE DOWN the amount of tournaments we have, because it's too much strain on me. We were having tournaments every 2 weeks that always had over 12 players (apart from the Earth patch tournament, as I had to give my deck to someone else so that they could play after they forgot their own, but even then we still had 11). You could say that it was partly down to me for having organised so many tournaments. We have our patch tournaments, the Grand Prix Ladder events that I've conjured up myself (and has proved to be extremely popular amongst our players, I'm often asked what the next one will be), and we recently had the Street Fighter Nationals. I'm postponing the patch tournament for next month till the end of the month because I've almost forgotten what it's like to play a normal deck!

That post was about a couple of players who were well known amongst the UK playfield stopping playing, and to be honest, from what I've heard from friends, they haven't truly stopped at all. I know for a fact that in preparation for the Street Fighter Nationals, that one of my friends travelled to see the person who wrote that in order to play with them continuously for practice. That doesn't sound like someone who's stopped playing altogether now, does it? Now I'm not trying to undermine his opinion on that post, he is more than entitled to it, and having met him, he's a lovely guy who obviously felt a bit let down at the time. But I can tell you right now, that we've got one of the most tightly knit playgroups I've played in at the moment (FAR better than any YGO or Magic meta I've played in).

Yes, I agree that perhaps FFG should try to make a little bit more effort to listen to its players, and I don't like that promo support is so small at the moment, but why should they bother, quite frankly, if people are constantly going on about how the game is dying and how many cards they wanted banned when they do release them? It actually made me laugh when a post was made on here recently about someone who was interested in playing the game, and they specifically said that posts on this forum have discouraged them from wanting to play. I'm all for free speech, don't get me wrong, but geez, if you like the game play it, if you don't, don't. Why tell everyone seemingly in order to drag them down too?

I've played UFS from the day SF/SC01 came out, and have really enjoyed it from then on too. Things change, it's normal. Negativity DOESN'T HELP. If you've got a meta thats small, go out and get new players. Surely you've got friends who have played CCG's or the computer games previously, say to them that a lot of the people you've been playing with before don't play anymore, and that you'd like to play something with them that would give the two of you omething else in comon. If anything, it's a great way to make new friends. Go out and convert the heathen Yu-Gi-Oh players to the righteous ways of UFS! Me and my friends a travel a lot to play UFS, but not just because we want to play the game, but because we've made friends by doing so and would very much like to see them. Tallgeese, Chaoschild, Saccharin and Icky are all people I've gotten to know extremely well through UFS, and would happily call them good friends of mine. I've only met them in the past 6 months or so though, and thats through all the Addes complaints, the Ibuki flames and everything.

Going back to the Street Fighter national tournament we had recently, I think we had upwards of 30 odd people playing in that, and it was in a place that none of us had really played in before. It was placed in a convention of sorts amongst quite a few other games, and our turnout was the best of the convention, or so I hear. This, if anything, is a great encouragement to say that UFS is far from dead in the UK. However as far as I'm concerned, this isn't enough for me, I want more. I want more people to play with, more people to trade with, more friends.

In conclusion, I think that UFS has a long way to go, or at least it does if people make the effort to put the game back on the map. Why be so negative? The discussions we get on these forums once we get them going are really good. There's a new set round the corner that was redesigned from the ground up to make us all happy. Regionals will arrive when theyare ready to. We may hear something about them in the December State Of The Game(which will also arrive when it is ready to). For those who are having fun playing the game and aren't too worried about whats going on, carry on, but for those who complain so often, I'll reiterate a previous statement; why should FFG even bother to try to make new cards and new franchises etc if all their customers do is complain about them? Take the good with the bad, and HAVE SOME FREAKIN' FUN!

don't forget that besides the generally economy being in a recession that UFS is currently in its 'off-season', i expect things to pick up in January when the regionals events start...

also, things will probably pick up with the release of set 11 in a couple weeks... new sets tend to do wonders from what i've seen, especially if this one is as good as set 9 (which i heard sold out completely)... i think things have been slow lately too because set 10 wasn't that great, it had some nice cards but nothing really fantastic...

and last weekend i was able to talk to James Hata and he did tell me that more people were joining the game than leaving it (he told me that UFS is nowhere near dying, and that UFS was still making money) and that it only seems like more people are leaving it because people seem to post about leaving the game here more often than people post about joining it (and keep in mind, the forums are just where a vocal minority of players post, not everyone who comes here posts, and not every player even comes here).

don't forget that besides the general economy being in a recession that UFS is currently in its 'off-season', i expect things to pick up in January when the regionals events start...

also, things will probably pick up with the release of set 11 in a couple weeks... new sets tend to do wonders from what i've seen, especially if this one is as good as set 9 (which i heard sold out completely)... i think things have been slow lately too because set 10 wasn't that great, it had some nice cards but nothing really fantastic...

and last weekend i was able to talk to James Hata and he did tell me that more people were joining the game than leaving it (he told me that UFS is nowhere near dying, and that UFS was still making money) and that it only seems like more people are leaving it because people seem to post about leaving the game here more often than people post about joining it (and keep in mind, the forums are just where a vocal minority of players post, not everyone who comes here posts, and not every player even comes here, infact i think most players don't even know the forums exist, just the more serious ones do).

What shadow said.

but i'd like to know with what confidence hata says that... where is the research? Do they have / who is their marketting analyst / player base determination mechanism...

But yeah the game is no where near dying here, but mostly because of a solid four guys that stop by and buy some packs here and there.

vermillian said:

My guess is - boxes are moving, people are purchasing packs, ergo it's selling. Keep in mind, Realm of Midnight has been back-ordered for a fuggin' month.

I find it absolutely hilarious that people are fixating on the "Game is dying" comment and not on the "Forums are total crap." one. My forum session timed out while posting this. I had to repost it two times.

Game is dying? It's been said (by the precious few who allegedly have access to such information, information that FFG is not willing to communicate outside of these precious few) that the issues are now being addressed since they can put behind them various things.

Forums are complete crap? Blissful ignorance demonstrated by the playerbase, too busy arguing the point that was made in another topic than talking about acknowledging problems we have within the community and how to better ourselves.

Then again, I guess there'll have to be a RL beatdown before we even start discussing this.

vermillian said:

I just talked to Steve today guys and he said they have sold more set 11 kits then both set 9 and set 10 and maybe 8 as well !! We had a great talk today the game is no where near dying and will be better then ever once set 12 comes out in March . Please guys stay positive if sales are up the game will survive and expect some new exciting OP programs coming in a few weeks .

ShadowDragon said:

Most of my playgroup actively avoids the forums because of what goes on in here.

Yea these forums are pretty miserable to use.

Along with all the usual complaints, they are rediculously slow on my computer, to the point where it's not worth coming on here more than like once a day.

And I really miss the "Recent Topics" section, that was the easiest general overview of what was being posted across the entire forum. =[

As for the state of the game,

Us down here at Game Empire in Pasadena, California, have never had a that big of a playgroup, but we at least pulled 6-8 people steadily for a while. Now, we're down to me and the scout being the only people there on sundays for normal events... We still pull people for prereleases, and on occasion a patch event, but that's it.

Does anywhere in Southern California still have a steady playgroup?

Antigoth said:

I'm starting to think of the same thing, except likely for entirely different reasons.

Playing in So Cal, I feel that most playgroups died off after WCC. The last time that I play a tournament where there were more than 4 people was the pre release at GMI. I feel that I am in the same boat as ARmed_Pirate, that it is hard to stay in the game right now. I know the game might start going in a different direction, but i just can't see myself spending that much more money in this game.

Hey guys!

Look, Steve blessed us with a mini state of the game. It's HERE

Lets wrap up this conversation, as a number of the items we've been discussing are actually covered in Steve's response.