I feel dumb asking this one but here it is:

Using a frag grenade, if I succeed my Range (Light) attack with 2 success, the grenade deals 10 damage (8 + 2 success) to my target right? [ soak not applied yet ]

Now, if I would have also rolled 2 advantages, I could activate the blast quality... Dealing 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to every creature adjacent (engaged) to my target?

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Cheers!

Yup

to every creature adjacent (engaged) to my target?

Just to keep your brain on track: Engaged is a more a sub-condition applicable within the Short range band, so calling it "adjacent" isn't really correct. You can have 10 dudes all engaged to each other without some kind of bizarre group hug going on.

I agree Ghostofman, the word adjacent may not be appropriate. Most arms-to-arms combat are part of an engagement, I simply assumed so. To me, creatures engaged with each other shouldn't be more than 10 feet away visually. In the Engaged band explanation, it says "very close proximity", so that you can directly interact with the engaged object or creature.

For me, the rough size of a boxing ring works pretty well for determining engaged (about a 20x20 feet area, give or take a little). Two people with lightsabers have enough space to maneuver around but don't require more than a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other, and a number of people can stand inside with some relative distance, or quite a few people can be packed in.

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

Wrong on this one. If you failed, you did not generate any successes (they were all cancelled out), so you would only deal 6 damage to the target and all engaged targets.

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

Wrong on this one. If you failed, you did not generate any successes (they were all cancelled out), so you would only deal 6 damage to the target and all engaged targets.

Woah! Good catch... a copy/past mistake from my part. Thanks.

For me, the rough size of a boxing ring works pretty well for determining engaged (about a 20x20 feet area, give or take a little). Two people with lightsabers have enough space to maneuver around but don't require more than a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other, and a number of people can stand inside with some relative distance, or quite a few people can be packed in.

I can see your point of view but I don't actually agree, it defies what the book is literally explaining. Narrative is ok the line can be easily cross the line that way.

Take the boxing ring again, I think the few steps to advanced you are taking about is actually the move/engaged/disengaged (maneuver), or may not?

Where does it say to apply the successes to blast damage as well? I've always treated blast damage as a flat number that is either triggered or not.

Where does it say to apply the successes to blast damage as well? I've always treated blast damage as a flat number that is either triggered or not.

Page 155... its under the Blast (Active) item qualities.

EotE CRB, Pg 155, first paragraph under "Blast (Active)", last sentence.

"If the attack is successful and Blast activates, each character (friend or foe) Engaged with the original target suffers wounds equal to the weapon's Blast rating (plus additional wounds per Success as usual)."

Thanks guys... Looks like I need to read more.

Not what I meant. Incidentals cover incidental movements. Pretty much every kind of one-on-one personal combat I've ever seen includes both combatants moving. Maybe not constantly, but frequently. An attacker might need to take a step forward to gain momentum and leverage so they don't overextend and tip forward, a defender might need to shift back a step to block something.

So when I say "a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other", I don't mean the engage/disengage maneuver, I mean incidental by game terms. A boxing ring is adequate in illustrating an area many are familiar with for what engaged means, at least to me.

Not what I meant. Incidentals cover incidental movements. Pretty much every kind of one-on-one personal combat I've ever seen includes both combatants moving. Maybe not constantly, but frequently. An attacker might need to take a step forward to gain momentum and leverage so they don't overextend and tip forward, a defender might need to shift back a step to block something.

So when I say "a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other", I don't mean the engage/disengage maneuver, I mean incidental by game terms. A boxing ring is adequate in illustrating an area many are familiar with for what engaged means, at least to me.

Honestly, I will present that vision to my table, it is interesting (even if I see it differently) and maybe we will adopt it. It could be a little challenging since we play with minis (no squares but simple rules for measuring bands) but why not?

Just to be clear, I do not believe the Blast is applied to the original target if you successfully hit the target already.. you don't get to double up like that.

We were running it that way and my heavy killed a lot of baddies before it got clarified on these forums. (Cant at the moment find the thread.. if folks disagree w my statement we can look further into it)

Not what I meant. Incidentals cover incidental movements. Pretty much every kind of one-on-one personal combat I've ever seen includes both combatants moving. Maybe not constantly, but frequently. An attacker might need to take a step forward to gain momentum and leverage so they don't overextend and tip forward, a defender might need to shift back a step to block something.

So when I say "a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other", I don't mean the engage/disengage maneuver, I mean incidental by game terms. A boxing ring is adequate in illustrating an area many are familiar with for what engaged means, at least to me.

Honestly, I will present that vision to my table, it is interesting (even if I see it differently) and maybe we will adopt it. It could be a little challenging since we play with minis (no squares but simple rules for measuring bands) but why not?

I was just throwing ideas around. Really, engaged only needs to mean "I can hit you with my weapon". That might mean different things if you use a spear* (which affords better range), knuckles and knives (closer than arms length), lightsabers (blades makes solid contact), and so on. More than likely, it need not be a full 20x20; might be less, but we were talking about grenades .

That's why it's narrative, and can vary in size depending on the circumstance. I would say, on average, able to talk quietly to somebody and they can hear you clearly, and being able to be within arms reach in about two steps, which isn't much effort on anybody's part (whereas a maneuver would require some degree of effort, like crossing a room).

*Some spears (like the lightsaber pike) have the Defensive quality, which I imagine portrays the difficulty of fighting close quarters with somebody with a long, pointy stick; as they should, as that is what makes them so effective. Not all of them do, and this annoys me; swords in this game have a deal of consistency when it comes to their encumbrance, damage and qualities, but spears and polearms don't.

Not what I meant. Incidentals cover incidental movements. Pretty much every kind of one-on-one personal combat I've ever seen includes both combatants moving. Maybe not constantly, but frequently. An attacker might need to take a step forward to gain momentum and leverage so they don't overextend and tip forward, a defender might need to shift back a step to block something.

So when I say "a few incidental steps to advance or back away from each other", I don't mean the engage/disengage maneuver, I mean incidental by game terms. A boxing ring is adequate in illustrating an area many are familiar with for what engaged means, at least to me.

Honestly, I will present that vision to my table, it is interesting (even if I see it differently) and maybe we will adopt it. It could be a little challenging since we play with minis (no squares but simple rules for measuring bands) but why not?

Just compare it to Space combat (which is essentially a variation of Melee combat). Two spacecraft in Close are still moving around...

It doesn't change the mechanics any, it's just a way of keeping the visual from getting silly and to help up the energy level up when it comes time to explain what those Advantages did.

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

One very minor thing, if you missed and didn't generate 3 advantages the GM can still apply Blast damage if the circumstances demand it.

Like if you dropped a grenade through a hatch into a turbo-lift full of 'troopers. Or rabbits.

Just to be clear, I do not believe the Blast is applied to the original target if you successfully hit the target already.. you don't get to double up like that.

We were running it that way and my heavy killed a lot of baddies before it got clarified on these forums. (Cant at the moment find the thread.. if folks disagree w my statement we can look further into it)

Thank you for this - I've definitely been running this wrong!

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

One very minor thing, if you missed and didn't generate 3 advantages the GM can still apply Blast damage if the circumstances demand it.

Like if you dropped a grenade through a hatch into a turbo-lift full of 'troopers. Or rabbits.

Or if you threw the grenade into a group of people all standing within its actual blast radius... ?

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

One very minor thing, if you missed and didn't generate 3 advantages the GM can still apply Blast damage if the circumstances demand it.

Like if you dropped a grenade through a hatch into a turbo-lift full of 'troopers. Or rabbits.

So those rabbits literally were dynamite?

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

One very minor thing, if you missed and didn't generate 3 advantages the GM can still apply Blast damage if the circumstances demand it.

Like if you dropped a grenade through a hatch into a turbo-lift full of 'troopers. Or rabbits.

Or if you threw the grenade into a group of people all standing within its actual blast radius... ?

If the GM says they were in the blast radius then sure. But if the area was at all open the GM can and usually should insist that a miss is definitely a miss.

I can't emphasise the word " can " enough here. In the lift example, perhaps the rabbit grenade was a dud?

Finally, if I would have missed but rolled 3 advantages, I could deal 8 damage (blast 6 + 2 success) to my target and all engaged creatures around that target?

One very minor thing, if you missed and didn't generate 3 advantages the GM can still apply Blast damage if the circumstances demand it.

Like if you dropped a grenade through a hatch into a turbo-lift full of 'troopers. Or rabbits.

Or if you threw the grenade into a group of people all standing within its actual blast radius... ?

If the GM says they were in the blast radius then sure. But if the area was at all open the GM can and usually should insist that a miss is definitely a miss.

I can't emphasise the word " can " enough here. In the lift example, perhaps the rabbit grenade was a dud?

GM uses "dud" as an excuse too many times, and I start demanding grenades from another manufacturer.

True enough. How about...

So I don't mean to beat on a dead horse but one, thank you guys for the clarification for blast damage, and two for the whole engaged topic, we use minis with no squares and how I've ruled it is within 5 of the measurement tool (we use Tabletop for the minis and what not cause 3D stuff is always cooler) in Table Top is Engaged for the purpose of jumping in and out of melee