If you are not taking bombers, why are you not taking IG-88! He is severly underappreciated in my opinion. He is the unit I am most jealous of as a rebel player.

If you are not taking bombers, why are you not taking IG-88! He is severly underappreciated in my opinion. He is the unit I am most jealous of as a rebel player.

Because the goal is not to ignore Escort. The goal is to deal unilateral damage while forcing the opponent to engage the squadrons. If they do not, well I have black dice against their ships but usually since I keep my squadrons near their target they have to come to me first and that is when the damage starts to pile in. It is a method I have worked on while being first player where I can control the engagements and when combat is joined.

Find the points and add him in and try it out. Personally I like what he does but he is just not the platform for it. NOW, if he had Bossk's attack. . . that would be a different matter. It does not help that he does not have a brace.

What Drasnighta said. In a recent game, I had a solid build of aggressors, interceptors, and Dengar. My opponent used Jan to ignore all those wonderful counter attacks and wreck my ISD with B-wings. Good positioning on his part, but still a vulnerability.

Gotcha.

This weekend will be my first game playing as the Empire ... and I have to say I'm starting to feel like rebels took a huge step forward compared to the Imps. Not saying this poses a significant game imbalance, just starting to pick up on some of the gripes about the rebs getting more bang for their buck in wave 2. Here's my list I'll be using.

Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)

- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)

- Avenger ( 5 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Overload Pulse ( 8 points)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Corrupter ( 5 points)

- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)

- Impetuous ( 4 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)

1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points)

2 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 18 points)

2 TIE Advanced Squadrons ( 24 points)

So basically the strategy for killing Ackbar is to completely ignore the powerful front arcs of our carriers and instead hope he doesn't shoot us to death from the back while we squad squad squad?

No? Why the **** do people just invent quotes when responding to people. Where did I ever suggest what you said . When your so called powerful front arcs are less powerful at certain ranges why are you fighting on those terms? Carriers, especially the ISD, are great at swinging in. But it has to be well timed or you loose because by the time you bring your ideal guns to bear it might be to late.

Gotta use multiple threats people, all of your ships + squadrons barreling down, complete with good positioning will win the day!

So basically the strategy for killing Ackbar is to completely ignore the powerful front arcs of our carriers and instead hope he doesn't shoot us to death from the back while we squad squad squad?

No? Why the **** do people just invent quotes when responding to people. Where did I ever suggest what you said . When your so called powerful front arcs are less powerful at certain ranges why are you fighting on those terms? Carriers, especially the ISD, are great at swinging in. But it has to be well timed or you loose because by the time you bring your ideal guns to bear it might be to late.

I had a terrible game against Ackbar yesterday, but I know why I failed - panic.

MC80 and 3 TRC90's, he had initiative, and picked Fleet Ambush.

This is where I fell apart.

Suddenly he can start his ships IMMEDIATELY IN RANGE. Pop a shot and zip away, first turn. I deployed far too spread out, and as a result the ISD was blown to hell and the Raiders jumped to Hyperspace, abandoning the Firesprays.

I should have deployed the Fireball in its entirety alongside the MC80, then shove it into him and wail away. Instead I split the Sprays and Rhymer/Dengar to try and bait. The Sprays survived, but...didn't really help.

I have since changed Fleet Ambush out for Contested Outpost.

Hashed out a couple of games today against that Ackbar build that demolished by VSD carriers (Drew's out here somewhere but I don't know his username). It was Home One, with a mix of Slaved Turrets and TRCs on the MC30s. I tried hitting it with a Demolisher and two ISDs (Demo died, minefield objective had me engaging only on turns 5-6 with no other casualties for a loss), and the second game's superior positions had me mis-deploy, but only take out the assault frigate as a victory while my entire fleet, sans a shield-less gladiator and fighters, got wiped.

It's just depressing to see how easy rebel builds can be nowadays. We were also discussing a nebulon-B firing squad enhanced with Home One. It would be disgusting to face (as all of them also carry Intel Officers with Slaved Turrets) because of all the shenanigans/toys the Rebels have currently.

Empire needs some good titles. Avenger would be awesome if there were more reliable ways to kick Overload pulse. Both ion carriers that aren't the ISD are depressingly easy to kill, so you can't count on reliable shots to really capitalize on that combo. Both the raider titles deal with Fighters, but more often you're taking much cheaper fighters to deal with fighters, and trying to use your Raiders for other useful things (like carrying torpedo upgrades on a cheaper platform). Just...ugh. I think if I'm going to try Imperial spaceships in the not-too-near future, I'm gonna acquire a third Imperial star destroyer and just experiment with Motti ISD abuse, since that's the only ship I can totally rely on in the Wave 2 Imperial meta. :C

There is one list drew suggested, based on something I tried last week, that I'm taking to a tournament well... today my time after I get some sleep. It's going to use a trick, and I'll mention what it is after I'm back from the tourney.

Hashed out a couple of games today against that Ackbar build that demolished by VSD carriers (Drew's out here somewhere but I don't know his username). It was Home One, with a mix of Slaved Turrets and TRCs on the MC30s. I tried hitting it with a Demolisher and two ISDs (Demo died, minefield objective had me engaging only on turns 5-6 with no other casualties for a loss), and the second game's superior positions had me mis-deploy, but only take out the assault frigate as a victory while my entire fleet, sans a shield-less gladiator and fighters, got wiped.

It's just depressing to see how easy rebel builds can be nowadays. We were also discussing a nebulon-B firing squad enhanced with Home One. It would be disgusting to face (as all of them also carry Intel Officers with Slaved Turrets) because of all the shenanigans/toys the Rebels have currently.

Empire needs some good titles. Avenger would be awesome if there were more reliable ways to kick Overload pulse. Both ion carriers that aren't the ISD are depressingly easy to kill, so you can't count on reliable shots to really capitalize on that combo. Both the raider titles deal with Fighters, but more often you're taking much cheaper fighters to deal with fighters, and trying to use your Raiders for other useful things (like carrying torpedo upgrades on a cheaper platform). Just...ugh. I think if I'm going to try Imperial spaceships in the not-too-near future, I'm gonna acquire a third Imperial star destroyer and just experiment with Motti ISD abuse, since that's the only ship I can totally rely on in the Wave 2 Imperial meta. :C

There is one list drew suggested, based on something I tried last week, that I'm taking to a tournament well... today my time after I get some sleep. It's going to use a trick, and I'll mention what it is after I'm back from the tourney.

Empire has some excellent titles. Demolisher is still the best title in the game, IMO. But even if you don't want to go that far, its objectively excellent. Avenger is very strong. Relentless is fantastic. The problem is the VSD and Raider titles are servicable at best...much like the ships themselves. But the Imperial squadron game is very strong, the ISD is sooooooo gooooood.

Yes... in spite of (I keep seeing) many disappointments for the Empire this wave, stat-wise the Imperial being as good as it is makes me happy. The titles are good, the upgrade selection is good... problem is the cost. Again, I'm only seeing the ISD and GSD as the most workable tools in the Empire right now, barring special lists, while the Rebellion has all manner of workable strategies and equipment pieces with very little waste in their selection pool.

The problem with the squadron game is that, to some degree, it doesn't matter. The objective of the game primarily is to destroy all opponent's capital ships. The only tool Imperial fighter players have to lean on for this objective is the Rhymerball. It puts us at least a little bit ahead of the Rebellion, since it does what the Rebellion cannot, but the Rebels have some great tools in their arsenal as well. Yavaris, Adar Tallon, Luke, Nym, Farlander, and the majority of their fighters all have Bomber. So, the Rebels can afford to create a list to attack enemy fighters, tank against them, and if they survive still do more damage against capital ships than the Empire can put together with their two bomber-carrying craft in their list.

And if Empire builds a complete fighter-munching list, it's not going to matter when they're throwing only blue dice against capital ships that are taking apart your capital ships. My 3x VSD carrier list lost precisely for this reason. So with the exception of a mass, cheap Rhymerball, Imperial fighters don't matter, because they can't hurt capital ships as well as Rebel fighters can.

Yes... in spite of (I keep seeing) many disappointments for the Empire this wave, stat-wise the Imperial being as good as it is makes me happy. The titles are good, the upgrade selection is good... problem is the cost. Again, I'm only seeing the ISD and GSD as the most workable tools in the Empire right now, barring special lists, while the Rebellion has all manner of workable strategies and equipment pieces with very little waste in their selection pool.

The problem with the squadron game is that, to some degree, it doesn't matter. The objective of the game primarily is to destroy all opponent's capital ships. The only tool Imperial fighter players have to lean on for this objective is the Rhymerball. It puts us at least a little bit ahead of the Rebellion, since it does what the Rebellion cannot, but the Rebels have some great tools in their arsenal as well. Yavaris, Adar Tallon, Luke, Nym, Farlander, and the majority of their fighters all have Bomber. So, the Rebels can afford to create a list to attack enemy fighters, tank against them, and if they survive still do more damage against capital ships than the Empire can put together with their two bomber-carrying craft in their list.

And if Empire builds a complete fighter-munching list, it's not going to matter when they're throwing only blue dice against capital ships that are taking apart your capital ships. My 3x VSD carrier list lost precisely for this reason. So with the exception of a mass, cheap Rhymerball, Imperial fighters don't matter, because they can't hurt capital ships as well as Rebel fighters can.

Which is why I worked out a "balanced" imperial ratio a while back. Running 2 TIE Fighters with a single TIE Bomber is a "balanced" force vs ships. The average damage per cost for this ratio is .080. Which puts it nicely between bombers and fighters. It also happens to cost a convenient 25 points making it fairly easy to draw up a first draft imperial balanced list. Its only for first draft purposes as you'll want to adjust numbers to fit your ships and likely squadron activation ratings. (e.g. If you only ever activate 3 TIEs at a time, having 4 in your list might be suboptimal)

Here's the thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191403-balancing-the-force-well-squadrons/

*Balanced is in quotes because the .080 was chosen somewhat arbitrarily. Primarily from my experience and looking at the ship and squadron damage numbers. To contrast the A-wing is 0.068 and the TIE fighters themselves are 0.063.

Think outside the box............cross the T of a rebel ship either to bow or aft and let rip with a broadside with enhanced armament, and concentrate fire. The amount of return fire will make it worth it. So far my ISD has claimed a MC-80 and 2 ASMK2.With this maneuver. The rebel ships have a Achilles heel front or aft so think like a 18th century wooden ship captain and rake it fore or aft. I smashed a MC-80 pretty decently with a head on shot versus the MC-80',aft section. A full front shot with concentrate fire, used the tractor beam to reduce it's speed from 2 to 1 then rammed it. A turn later a second shot from the front again, again used the tractor beam to reduce speed to 1 then rammed agsin.........It was a burning wreck

I am winning as an Imperial player. I don't know what I am doing differently but it must be something.

Which is why I worked out a "balanced" imperial ratio a while back. Running 2 TIE Fighters with a single TIE Bomber is a "balanced" force vs ships. The average damage per cost for this ratio is .080. Which puts it nicely between bombers and fighters. It also happens to cost a convenient 25 points making it fairly easy to draw up a first draft imperial balanced list. Its only for first draft purposes as you'll want to adjust numbers to fit your ships and likely squadron activation ratings. (e.g. If you only ever activate 3 TIEs at a time, having 4 in your list might be suboptimal)

Here's the thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191403-balancing-the-force-well-squadrons/

*Balanced is in quotes because the .080 was chosen somewhat arbitrarily. Primarily from my experience and looking at the ship and squadron damage numbers. To contrast the A-wing is 0.068 and the TIE fighters themselves are 0.063.

It's a goos analysis ! On top of that, your balance when looking at this fleet wide helps with a tactical balance of being able to push through fighter screens and be able to also throw dice at ships. With Imperial Squadrons, because they are less generalist than Rebel fighters, I've noticed that there tends to be diminishing returns when you spam the same type of squadrons all over (while Rebels actually enjoy this). Full TIE Bombers for instance will probably not die but will be pinned for the game as soon as their Jumpmaster is dead or Chiraneau goes down, and purely TIE Fighters will get mauled by several turns of antifighter barrage.

Also, TIE Fighters are far from useless in an anti-ship role. Wihle they're not dedicated against ships, under the weight of numbers, they will eventually do some damage. For 24 points, 3 blue dice averages 1.5 damage, while 2 red dice from 2 X-Wings averages 1.25.

Even compared to the cheap Y-Wings of the Rebels, 4 TIE Fighters at 32 points deal on average 2 damage, while 3 Y-Wings deal 2.25 for 30 points. Obviously, the Bomber trigerring critical effects is still nicer, but it's not something to discount.

That said, I still think that Imperial squadrons are more worth it to soften up the enemy ships in preparation of a brutal attack by the big ships.

@Norsehound : What was your 3 x Victory carrier list like ?

The main issue with TIE Fighters (and Interceptors and to a slightly lesser extent A-Wings) is not damage output, it's damage input. With only 3 hull, they are extremely vulnerable to any multiple-dice anti squadron attacks even from ships. So the 26 points of X-Wings will ultimately do not 1.5 damage, but instead 4.5 damage over three rounds. The TIE Fighters will do 3 if uncontested.

The Rebels have a huge advantage in that most of their fighters require a minimum of three attacks from any existing ships to actually kill, and can directly engage enemy fighters when ships aren't a high priority.

The Empire could really use two things:

1: A unique, Empire-only ability to use defense tokens targeted by accuracy results. Maybe as a commander ability.

2: A ship dedicated to projecting Imperial squadron presence in a way that acknowledges the swarm tactics required by Imperial squadron design.

So... the list I ran was a Gladiator-I: Ozzel, Ordnance Experts, Engine techs, Insideous, with three Raider-Is with APTs, ordnance experts...and Tractor Beams.

The idea was to stun any small ships that were getting close and hold them in the fighter ball. That fighter ball being five TIE Bombers, a TIE Advanced, three Firesprays, and Rhymer.

The fighters worked! I managed to take down a couple of assault frigates with them and seriously harmed some other stuff!

...the Raiders un-worked. It was like handing 44 points to my enemy. I made the mistake of taking Opening salvo with them against an Ackbar list, thinking I could dance around them, but my opponent only needed to look at my ships to one-shot them.

I dont think I will ever again take Raider-Is. Every time I tried to get them into effective range, my opponent immediately attacked them with whatever dice on hand and the Raiders suffered for it. Getting into Black dice range, with only a brace token, is not conductive to Raider survival. The ship is pretty much a failure, at least the I version is. I can't see how the advocates can defend it using it like a mini-gladiator.

IF I try them again, it will be the II version. Because that way the ship can at least hang back at range, using the evades for some protection if the brace gets locked down, and the II version has more blue dice. Arming them with SW-7s means anytime it's in range, it instantly drops three damage out the front arc. That way at least they can pretend like the much better Rebel corvettes without inviting death like the I version.

The main issue with TIE Fighters (and Interceptors and to a slightly lesser extent A-Wings) is not damage output, it's damage input. With only 3 hull, they are extremely vulnerable to any multiple-dice anti squadron attacks even from ships. So the 26 points of X-Wings will ultimately do not 1.5 damage, but instead 4.5 damage over three rounds. The TIE Fighters will do 3 if uncontested.

The Rebels have a huge advantage in that most of their fighters require a minimum of three attacks from any existing ships to actually kill, and can directly engage enemy fighters when ships aren't a high priority.

The Empire could really use two things:

1: A unique, Empire-only ability to use defense tokens targeted by accuracy results. Maybe as a commander ability.

2: A ship dedicated to projecting Imperial squadron presence in a way that acknowledges the swarm tactics required by Imperial squadron design.

The damage input is a good consideration to keep in mind. But it's also a meta call. Am I seeing fleets with lots of AA, or VSDs with slaved turrets. The first defense against AA is simply (which you probably know) keep the TIEs in different arcs. Not always possible and more command intensive, but also not insignificant and something some habitual imperial players seem to forget due to the fixation on Rhymer.

The other solution is just running TIEadv or now agressors. The TIEadv:Bomber ratio is 4:3. More survivability but less anti-squad dice. Also has the tradeoff of fewer activations. So TIE fighters vs Adv is really just a further meta call. Which is the primary imperial dilemma.

Imperials have all the best squadron tools IF they know what the opponent is bringing. When they don't, the Imperial player has the choice between a skew list and a balanced list. Balanced lists are hard to make. Rebels have the opposite problem. It's hard for them to specialize. Their "skew" list of lots of A-wings is actually not too far off of balanced. But they have trouble truly winning the squadron superiority fight vs any imperial determined to bring enough TIEs. "There's too many of them..." The closest thing the rebels have to skew is the all Y-wing list, and you don't hear much about that anymore as people are packing more squadrons. (Though I think it could still work with the right ship upgrades)

Hey guys ! How would you approach Victory IIs in the new Wave 2 meta ? I can find a role for a points efficient Victory I Bomber carrier, or even some Ordnance boat with Expanded Launchers, but I find the Vic 2 to be in an odd spot... The Ion upgrades are okay at best on a ship so slow. Maybe a dedicated carrier for fighter screens ?

Hey guys ! How would you approach Victory IIs in the new Wave 2 meta ? I can find a role for a points efficient Victory I Bomber carrier, or even some Ordnance boat with Expanded Launchers, but I find the Vic 2 to be in an odd spot... The Ion upgrades are okay at best on a ship so slow. Maybe a dedicated carrier for fighter screens ?

I've never found a Spot for a Victory II, in Wave 1 or Now... The points difference is just too much for me. That's a whole other thing to add to the force, before anything else...

I want my Victories to be Cheap Tanks, and they do that through Shields and Hull Points...

If you are able to get ships into close range on a regular basis, then the Vic I is best.

If you are able to get ships into medium range but rarely get close, then the Vic 2 is best.

If you are unable to get ships into close or medium range, then the Vic I is best. (as you only ever use the red dice, so why pay for the blue upgrade)

Where you fit in that range is a function of your skill, play style, use of tractor beams, and opponents skill and fleet. So its hard to answer for another person. You just need to play enough to know where you pan out.

VSD-2 is probably the most expensive ship I --> II

not even the ISD is as much (110 --> 120)

the medium blue dice make it easier to concentrate fire on one enemy and/or to use with Teams

more expensive than Akbars offerins, however